Arpaio Pardoned

Did Arpaio deserve a pardon?

  • Total voters
    45
Keep in mind that Trump won bigly among the people who didn't support either candidate, carrying the "pox on both houses" vote by 47-30, which was 18% of the electorate. This was the first election where both candidates had net negatives approval ratings (and double-digit net negatives at that), so the "both candidates suck" vote was decisive.

It was even worse in the swing states that decided the election: see this article. The most glaring cases were Florida and Wisconsin, where he won the double-dissatisfied vote by 37 points in each state (compared to 17 nationally). Basically Trump eked out a win on the basis of people who never really were in his camp to begin with.

He has a core of 35% of the population who have so far been with him enough that they'd vote for him even if a scandal involving a sex dungeon full of little boys and donkeys in the basement of Mar-a-Lago came to light. But now even some of them (e.g. Coulter) are beginning to notice that he's governing as an erratically-tweeting version of Paul Ryan rather than the right-wing populist he ran as. So just to keep the far-right from leaving, he has to ban transgender people from the military and pardon Joe Arpaio, among other things. That's not exactly what I'd call a strong position.

I hope he stays in office for the full term, because otherwise the Republicans would actually be able to slash what exists of our safety net and their own taxes. But Trump manages to jam everything up so that the GOP can't do much even when they have full government control; as long as he doesn't impulsively start a war or something, and the Democrats actually figure out how to run politicians who appeal to people and get them to turn out and/or switch to them, we'll stay in better-than-expected shape through 2020.
 
Warned for inappropriate language.
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I do feel sorry for those taxpayers. They booted him after he continued to behave criminally with the power he seized, and then they're on the hook for the civil rights abuses done in their name.

We will see if the Trumpists support them, financially. Or if they just whine about judges again.
 
El_Machinae said:
I do feel sorry for those taxpayers. They booted him after he continued to behave criminally with the power he seized, and then they're on the hook for the civil rights abuses done in their name.

We will see if the Trumpists support them, financially. Or if they just whine about judges again.
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We may see at the ballot box. Arpiao is considering a run at Flake's Senate seat.

J
 
VicRatlhead5199 said:
Even if he was 100% genuine in his promises, his ineptitude, abrasiveness and lack of focus make it very hard to carry them out. While someone may love everything he says, the way he almost constantly shoots himself in the foot makes trying to support him frustrating.
Click to expand...

Don't underestimate "loving everything he says," though. I've promulgated the theory that Trump voters do not care what he does, whether he actually fulfills any of his campaign promises or not; they only care that he keeps saying on their behalf things that society has made taboo to say for the past 20-30 years. They are getting what they want from this presidency: him making it ok to say things that the overwrought sensibilities of the P.C. police have not allowed people to say of late. None of them really care about a wall; they don't want the jobs Mexican immigrants take. In fact, except for some stretches of the rust belt, employment was already at good levels before Trump took office; the election wasn't about jobs. None of them care if there are three tax brackets instead of five. If I write an essay further elaborating this theory, it will be titled "All Talk." It takes some effort to make the disconnect. Most politicians say what they plan to do. And we judge them by how much of what they said they'd do, they actually do. What Trump says is instead a guarantor of the kind of thing he means to keep saying. His supporters judge him on merely continuing to say those kinds of things. I sincerely believe he could achieve nothing over the course of his entire presidency, and many of his followers would regard him as the greatest president ever.
Arpaio is essentially one such speech-act.
 
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Gori the Grey said:
Don't underestimate "loving everything he says," though. I've promulgated the theory that Trump voters do not care what he does, whether he actually fulfills any of his campaign promises or not; they only care that he keeps saying on their behalf things that society has made taboo to say for the past 20-30 years. They are getting what they want from this presidency: him making it ok to say things that the overwrought sensibilities of the P.C. police have not allowed people to say of late. None of them really care about a wall; they don't want the jobs Mexican immigrants take. In fact, except for some stretches of the rust belt, employment was already at good levels before Trump took office; the election wasn't about jobs. None of them care if there are three tax brackets instead of five. If I write an essay further elaborating this theory, it will be titled "All Talk." It takes some effort to make the disconnect. Most politicians say what they plan to do. And we judge them by how much of what they said they'd do, they actually do. What Trump says is instead a guarantor of the kind of thing he means to keep saying. His supporters judge him on merely continuing to say those kinds of things. I sincerely believe he could achieve nothing over the course of his entire presidency, and many of his followers would regard him as the greatest president ever.
Arpaio is essentially one such speech-act.
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You're probably right although I still hope that's the minority of right-wingers. I mean, the reactions of some of his own cabinet to the stuff he says reflects what I'd assume is the feelings of the majority of conservatives. Cohn's reaction to his "many sides" spiel and Tillerson's "the president speaks for himself" comment reflects the feelings of the majority of his voters. At least for America's sake I'd hope so.

I do have to point out as a "Rust Belt" resident it's not unemployment rates people need to look at. It's the actual jobs themselves. The median income in America is ~30k, the median for full time workers is around 39k. How many of us would call that good wages? I mean pretty much anything under 30k might as well be poverty and that's here in the Midwest. Think about a 30k salary on the coasts where cost of living is much higher. People aren't angry about not having a job. They're angry about having rotten dead end jobs. Trump himself tapped into that when he pointed out that Obama's low unemployment rate wasn't what mattered. Unfortunately as soon as he got into office he did the same thing as Obama, "Look at my unemployment rates and high stock market, aren't I awesome?" Trump's former supporters that are angry with him are angry because they thought they elected an outsider who understood them but he's turned around and did the exact thing his predecessor did. Kudo's to Obama for getting people working again but the next step is bringing quality back to those jobs.

The next president that will go down in history as one of the greats is going to mirror either Roosevelt. Either we elect a Republican trust/monopoly buster like Teddy or we elect a Keynesian left wing populist like FDR. Either one could propel the country into another golden era. Another Reagan on steroids like Trump is the last thing we needed.
 
I dont know if I'd say he deserves a pardon, he deserves to spend some time in his tent wearing pink underwear during a Phoenix summer. But he'd probably keel over, so pardon him for being too old to be in jail.
 
I respect that he's going to appeal his case, despite the pardon. I mean, if he actually does. I respect those noises.

But people should be clear abouthat the reporting. He wasn't criminally convicted of racial profiling. He was convicted of contempt of court.

Imagine a famous person was at a bar. After reviewing testimony, the bouncers decided that a famous person was grabbing vaginas, coasting on his fame and reputation as a bully to get away with it.

So they tell him to leave. That's their right.

The guy then comes back. Enters, refuses to leave.

The cops are called and he's convicted of trespass.

Arpaio is like that. A civil judge found that he was racially profiling and revoked his permission he was abusing. He then continued as if he had permission.

And then the voters kicked him out. But not until he put them on the hook for civil abuses he continued to commit.

Prediction: he and Trump wont fundraiser to compensate the taxpayers paying for his abuses
 
There seem to be (as per usual) lot of false accusations and misinterpretentions around the case:

Moderator Action: We've been letting a lot of these recent video posts go because you've been accompanying them with some discussion points. It seems you've slipped back into posting video-only replies. Consider this a friendly warning to stop. - Vincour
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
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"Trevor Noah's SJW freakout" yeah cheers mate we'll all get right on watching that
 
Mech:, Everything this guys says is WRONG! [at least for the first 5 1/2 minutes, after which I gave up in disgust. :cringe:
Primary duty of a sheriff is to protect & defend the Constitution.
Everyone has constitutional rights; they come from being human. [See e.g., para. 2 of the Decl. of Independence.]
"Political witch hunt" :eek: He was found guilty in a court of law. Multiple times.
'Tents held illegal immigrants' :rolleyes: ...and Americans citizens who looked Latino, and legal immigrants
Again, host presumes if Sheriff Joe arrested them, they must be guilty.
"ICE wasn't doing it's job" ... except for deporting illegals in record numbers
'Who is responsible for the $142 million?' I point my finger at the guy who repeatedly did the acts for which the county has to pay.

The host can cry "Witch hunt! Witch hunt! Witch hunt!" But every time Sheriff Joe went into court, he lost.
 
Zkribbler said:
Mech:, Everything this guys says is WRONG! [at least for the first 5 1/2 minutes, after which I gave up in disgust. :cringe:
Primary duty of a sheriff is to protect & defend the Constitution.
Everyone has constitutional rights; they come from being human. [See e.g., para. 2 of the Decl. of Independence.]
"Political witch hunt" :eek: He was found guilty in a court of law. Multiple times.
'Tents held illegal immigrants' :rolleyes: ...and Americans citizens who looked Latino, and legal immigrants
Again, host presumes if Sheriff Joe arrested them, they must be guilty.
"ICE wasn't doing it's job" ... except for deporting illegals in record numbers
'Who is responsible for the $142 million?' I point my finger at the guy who repeatedly did the acts for which the county has to pay.

The host can cry "Witch hunt! Witch hunt! Witch hunt!" But every time Sheriff Joe went into court, he lost.
Click to expand...
Are you saying "There seem to be (as per usual) lot of false accusations and misinterpretations around the case"? :cooool:
 
Zkribbler said:
Mech:, Everything this guys says is WRONG! [at least for the first 5 1/2 minutes, after which I gave up in disgust. :cringe:
Primary duty of a sheriff is to protect & defend the Constitution.
Everyone has constitutional rights; they come from being human. [See e.g., para. 2 of the Decl. of Independence.]
Click to expand...
I dont think that sheriffs duty is to defend constitution but to abide by and enforce the law written within the constitutional limits.
His duty as a sherif is to handle the crime which he was apparently very succesful at.
Also universal declaration of human rights and the US constitution are different things.

I would suggest to look at the video with an open mind. S.Crowder is a conservative Christian an although I dont say he gets everything right he sure makes a good points. If anything you can get more balanced view on the topic.
 
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