Attacking AI during their WoI

[tour86rocker]

Attacking opponents while they're fighting for independence: really fun or really wrong? If it's wrong, I don't want to be right!

It can be a great way to pick up free colonies/resources/colonists while having a guarantee that the victim is unlikely to "hit back", at least in the sense that they're going to be too preoccupied with their King to come take out YOUR colonies.

I understand from a CivIV point of view why this is okay. But when you bring in the luggage of a historical mindset, you start to wonder: why is the Dutch King allowing me to steal these colonies that he believes are his? Think about it: say you're attacking the Dutch during their WoI. The King says to the Dutch colonies: "wait, these are my colonial assets. I'm coming to claim them as rightfully mine!" Shouldn't he be mad at you, a third party, for stealing those colonies?

I think intervening in a foreign WoI should make YOUR king happy with you under some circumstances (there need to be more ways of making the king less unhappy!!) and it should carry some risk of war with the foreign king if you occupy a settlement that wasn't yours.

I'd also love to be able to intervene on the behalf of the colony trying to rebel in a way that would give you points. Sometimes you know that there's just not enough time for you to declare independence and win; it would be some consolation if you could score some major military points attacking another country's REF.

However, it would need to have risks involved, like unhappiness in your colonies, or even negative opinions from Native chiefs. Otherwise, EVERYBODY would take advantage of a player declaring independence.

Alternatively: I wouldn't be opposed to making it impossible for European colonial players to attack those declaring independence.

 

[Refar]

Since currently the Indipencance is the only way to a win (which i dislike, but that's another story) you can not be forbidden from attacking others while they are in the WoI - this is sometims your only way to prevent a loss.

It seems reasonable however, that once you intervene, you need to make some agreement with they King or fight his troops as well. Since there is no diplo to speak of in the game right now, "fight his troops" is what is left.

I also keep wondering why a REF that defeted a rebell AI colony just keeps sitting around dong nothing... They sometimes have enought troops to conquer the map... They should do so. Or they should pack up and go back home.

Seeing these soldiers just sitting around doing nothing is odd.

 

[tour86rocker]

Yes! I would love to see them pack up and go home. Having a dozen MoW's prowling about significantly impedes my Privateers' actions!

BTW, Europe victory can be turned off and AI's are unlikely to win their WoI's anyway. I guess I'm just talking about a way to maximize your points for a session. Perhaps for a Time Victory, which I haven't investigated yet.

 

[Refar]

If the Scoring is even remotely similar to Civ4 (I did not investigate, but from the feel of it, it is), time victories will allways give you the puniest scores possible.

 

[tour86rocker]

Ha. Independence victories ALREADY give you puny scores. It's totally jacked up. Needs fixing.

 

[Lord Shadow]

The problem with attacking other REFs is that you don't benefit from the rebel sentiment combat bonus, which you gain only after you declare independence yourself, against them. This obviously means you'll have a harder time with them than your own King's forces.

 

[Refar]

Well right now the problem with attacking other REFs is - you can't.

The note about lacking rebel sentiment is good tho, if this is ever going to change...
Maybe after defeting the Rebell Colony a REF should be converted back to "peasants" - normal units - and populate the former colony...

Or - as already noted - they could just pack and go

 

[majk-iii]

Hmm: In the pedia it says that regulars/ref's doesnt get defensive bonuses at all so all their strengt lies in (except obviosly numbers) attacking settlements... even without R.S.-bonuses... they arent really that hard to knock out. Plus Col 2's has an almost reversed idea about attacking into forests and onto hills from Civ4: 0 def-bonus (4 ref's only)+massive off-prom's regarding forests/hills (4 you only?)

Anyway... i kinda like your ideas (some), also want more options/playability/fun.

 

[Lord Shadow]

Well right now the problem with attacking other REFs is - you can't.

The note about lacking rebel sentiment is good tho, if this is ever going to change...
Maybe after defeting the Rebell Colony a REF should be converted back to "peasants" - normal units - and populate the former colony...

Or - as already noted - they could just pack and go

The REF's purpose is to suppress the rebellion, not repopulate the settlements. That'd be the job of a future settler wave, which you'd never see since you've already lost.

As for the sentiment bonus, it's good that it only applies after the declaration of independence. In fact, it should only apply against your King's troops, since it represents the people's desire to fight the royals and earn their freedom, as opposed to fighting anyone they come across.

 

[Refar]

We are not talking about the REF sent against the player, but other AI's

And whatever the REF's purpose is, it is most certainly not, be sitting around marooned after the fight is over.

 

[Lord Shadow]

We are not talking about the REF sent against the player, but other AI's

And whatever the REF's purpose is, it is most certainly not, be sitting around marooned after the fight is over.

Sorry, I misunderstood. You're right. The other REF troops should ideally pack up, board their MoWs and head back to Europe, perhaps leaving some men and ships behind to 'maintain order'.

But what then? That European opponent is finished, just like you would be if your REF defeated you. Would the King's troops eventually leave and development continue within the game's timespan? If so, could the colonists potentially declare independence again?

If you ask me, if an European colonial power loses its struggle against their king, it should stay out of the game. Perhaps the small garrison of royal troops stays in place, and colonies remain 'frozen' for the remainder of the game.

 

[Refar]

I would as well prefer if defeted European Powers stood out of the game... The timespan of the game is just to short, to make respawning usefull/interesting.
However right now they don't...

They do respawn with a new Caravell when killed by the Player, which is plain pointless...
When they fight for indipendance and loose they seem not to respawn -thankfully- but the whole REF stay marooned on the map instead, which is annoying also...

On top of it that said REF behaves very odd - it's on the map, but there is literally no way to interact with them - You can't attack them, They ignore you, even if you was at war with the colony... They ignore the Natives... You can't contact they King...
It's like if they came from another dimension (well thed technically did... ).

Hence was my - admitely not optimal - idea, of the REF converting into Colony Replacement - this way the respawned AI colony would be at lest some kind of cometition - i.e. of they remembered that I wasn't nice to they folks before - that could make the game interesing in the end...

 

[Reveilled]

What would be nice, I think, would be if the REF would hand over its conquered colony to a new colonial governor. By which I mean, if AI Bolivar declares independence and loses, his colonies are handed over to an AI San Martin.

 

[tour86rocker]

Yes, and then after San Martin, no more chances, if you ask me.

 

[Dralix]

I would as well prefer if defeted European Powers stood out of the game... The timespan of the game is just to short, to make respawning usefull/interesting.
However right now they don't...

They do respawn with a new Caravell when killed by the Player, which is plain pointless...

I'm getting so sick of people complaining about "defeated" European colonies "respawning." You need to get out of the Civ mindset. This isn't Civ. You cannot "defeat" the other European powers, they are too stubborn. You can defeat their New World colonies, but more people show up at the docks, and new ships are built to transport them. Apparently, some people think that no matter how bad it might be in the New World, it's still better than it is at home.

/relurks

 

[Refar]

So they keep coming with a undefended Caravell, popping out in the middle of my fleet, so i can farm XP for the SoTL ?

If they need to respawn late game - ok, fine by me - but give them enought power to at least make killing them again somewhat fun. And choose a Area where no enemy army is parked.

I just had a game, where Adams who i wiped out, finally snicked past me late game (after 20 turns of milking his respawing caravels for XP). He founded a single city, and Declared Independance with a pop of two. He got squashed by his King's REF which then kept pointlesly wandering my lands...

If this is something else than ridiculous...

 

[Dralix]

If you don't like the fact that you can farm, then don't park your ships in the farmland. You're exploiting a bug and then complaining about how it ruins the game.

Doctor it hurts when I move my arm like this!

Then don't move your arm like that

 

[Refar]

If i don't farm them, they settle my land. It annoys me.

 

[JanissaryRush]

The only problem is Man of Wars will sink your privateers. Besides that I couldn't care less if they have huge armies sitting outside my bases.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Sure you can snatch few colonies this way. But then, you'll need more liberty bells later for independence and get higher REF.