Bad Advice

[MeatUnit2]

Even with 'Sid's Tips' turned off the game recommends the "best" units/improvements to build next and the "best" sites to build a city. With experience (and through reading these forums) I've learned that many of these game generated recommendations are bad advice and actually lead to less than optimal game-play.

New players in particular are being misled into making bad decisions and learning poor game-play by this "feature" and I wonder why it even exists.

 

[strijder20]

I think everything 'recommended' is what the AI does.
It was easy to implement, that's why it's in. If you do what it says at Warlord or below, you should win easily.

 

[elmurcis]

These circles mostly are between "average and good", with rare situations when they are best (unless there is no other option-tile to place city actually).
But think from other side - if these places would be great... than there would be less place for player skills growth and same time AI would much harder oponent

Still - building tips are pretty good..

 

[MeatUnit2]

Examples of Bad Advice the game frequently doles out:

Building tips that tell you to build a scout as your first unit. Or that tell you to build an improvement/wonder that will be obsolete before completed - because you are almost done researching the tech that will obsolete it. And the ever popular advice to build a wonder that is almost completed by an AI that started building it 50-turns ago.

The suggestions for locating cities is just awful. Does the game give this advice because there are undisclosed resources nearby that you will be able to harvest later in the game? Don't know. But it influences the beginning player's decisions and, I believe, inhibits their progress in making decisions based on examining the terrain and strategic situation.

The advice is frequently just bad. No advice at all is better than bad advice.

 

[Seron]

The "advice" is just giving you a baseline. As you play more and more you move up from this baseline and become a better player. That is my belief about the reccomended units and tiles.

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

When I started out, there was so much to do that it was intimidating. The recommendations are great for new players, since you can play a reasonably decent game just following what it says. Basically, you play like the AI, and it lets you learn one aspect of the game at a time. I think it's a great feature, but I'm glad you can turn it off once you know what to do.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Well, by now, you should know that they don't know how to play their own game. On the other hand, players have had years to develop optimal strategy. I really doubt any of the developers had thought out stuff like "win the lib race" as in depth as some people have. Chances are they didn't care, either. But just look at how the AI plays... that's about as good as how the advice it can give is.

Basically the best advice is to ignore the game's advice.

The first time you see a popup suggesting you donate cities makes it evidently clear they didn't care.

Well, at least telling you to build a almost done wonder is good for that fail gold occasionally...

 

[Seron]

Well, at least telling you to build a almost done wonder is good for that fail gold occasionally...

I love that. It makes no sense.

 

[elmurcis]

Well, by now, you should know that they don't know how to play their own game. On the other hand, players have had years to develop optimal strategy. I really doubt any of the developers had thought out stuff like "win the lib race" as in depth as some people have. Chances are they didn't care, either. But just look at how the AI plays... that's about as good as how the advice it can give is.

Basically the best advice is to ignore the game's advice.

The first time you see a popup suggesting you donate cities makes it evidently clear they didn't care.

Well, at least telling you to build a almost done wonder is good for that fail gold occasionally...

almost done wonder sometimes is much better thing to build than worthless extra unit

 

[stoferb]

As I come from playing and mastering civ2 I've learned long ago to completely ignore such advice even though I'm a fairly new player at civ4. But I gotta say that the advice in civ2 was completely and utterly moronic compared to the advice in civ4 which atleast is half-decent.

 

[karadoc]

Correcting this bad advice is one of the things I really like about playing K-Mod. In standard BtS, I know that everything will turn to sh#t if I follow the suggestions, but in K-Mod I know that things will be pretty good. It's also comforting to know that the city governor isn't going to be completely ******ed if I let him choose city production automatically...

But besides all that, I'm pretty sure there is another option for turning off the advice. "No unit recommendations".

 

[Archon_Wing]

almost done wonder sometimes is much better thing to build than worthless extra unit

Yea, there comes a brief while before you have alphabet/currency but you've built your mandatory monument/granary that getting some extra gold to fund research or expansion is better than building a unit that costs maintenance. Especially true if a city has decent production (it's on a plains hill, for example) or if you have a resource that speeds the wonders up.

And even more true if IND... might be useful til you get currency and then some.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Firaxis doesn't know how to play the game well, and neither does the AI .

 

[tdy99]

There's a lot of randomness, at least in the research suggestions. I've noticed when I reload a game from a few turns back I will usually get completely different advice about what to research next.

 

[King Kalmah]

I think the recommend feature for the placement of cities does take into account of future resources ie Copper,Iron,Oil,Aluminium,Coal.I still build cities on the blue circles due to the fact that really early on before Copper or Iron it might be right next to the blue circle and now you zone four squares away from it just to grab the cow.

 

[r_rolo1]

I think the recommend feature for the placement of cities does take into account of future resources ie Copper,Iron,Oil,Aluminium,Coal.I still build cities on the blue circles due to the fact that really early on before Copper or Iron it might be right next to the blue circle and now you zone four squares away from it just to grab the cow.

No, no, no and no That was throughfully tested atleast 2 times independently ( one of htem by me empirically and then after by code dive , other by Bhruic ). The AI has no more knowledge of the map than the one you would have in their place, except some very localized issues and city settling is not one of them

On the fact the blue circles being bad sugestions: the logic behind the code is a little diferent from what a human will think on looking at a area thinking on settling it and that explains most of the "bad spots" . Basically the AI "thinks" : how can I squeeze the most of what I see ? (ok , it gets a little more elastic than that, especially near other civs borders or because it also thinks on defensive possibilities and resource grabbing ) while a human normally thinks : where are the spots that give better cities ? ...

 

[Ataxerxes]

Taking the computer's advice on settling cities is like automating your workers. The computer will make the same mistakes for you it does for the AI. It negates many of your advantages.

 

[King Kalmah]

How come Iron or Coal or Oil is normally very close to the blue circles then?...

I'd like a little explanation there cause it happens quite often 4/5....

 

[karadoc]

Blue-circles for city placement definitely do not take into account resources that have not been revealed (eg. copper without bronze working) - However, they do take into account resources that are hidden in the fog of war. (eg. copper with bronze working, but on an unreveal plot.) (I'm sure of this, because this is one of the things I've corrected in my Mod.)

Aside from that, any time there happens to coal or whatever near a tile that the computer recommended is just luck. (apart from the starting city, which has special rules)

 

[strijder20]

How come Iron or Coal or Oil is normally very close to the blue circles then?...

I'd like a little explanation there cause it happens quite often 4/5....

Because if you optimally use your land, iron, coal and oil are bound to be close to any city.