Balance Feedback

[OpheliaImmortal]

Just more thought on Religions..
The religions that give no economic bonues (Empyrean, Esus, Overlords), are all inferior to the others. Esus being the worst of the three, its only real redeeming feature is how comfortable picking it up on the tech tree is, but I don't really see any civilization that would want to use it. Perhaps some sort of synergy with the Svartalfar? There is no real reason for them to not take FOL. As it stands the religion grants weak units, some... extremely situational promotions.. and Gibbon. The lack of a temple is even more killer.
Empyrean comes next with .. basically the same boat, except with IMO the games best hero, Chalid, and a fine enough temple..and basically nothing else. At least they have a civilization that plays them
Octopus Overlords is better then the other 2.. but.. falls short compared to other bigs ones. Their priest has a spell that is really situational, their melee line has no special strength, just weaknesses (compares Crusaders to Stygians). The tower of complacency..is so.. expensive, for effectively a lesser economic benefit then the unique civics the other big religions get. (cept White Hand, which is fine..well.. Fiacra is awful)
That being said, Overlords is very close to balanced, for culture and the cheapness of its inferior melee line.
This is more of a FFH2 design flaw but

 

[Valkrionn]

Like I said, religions will be rebalanced. We're equalizing tech prereqs for them, so it's absolutely required.

 

[Mailbox]

Like I said, religions will be rebalanced. We're equalizing tech prereqs for them, so it's absolutely required.

If you don't want to give more info that's fine but if so p) then where in the tech tree will they appear? Somewhere in Late-Early Game to Mid-Mid Game?

 

[Valkrionn]

Well, we can't give info without revealing the tech tree. Closest description would be Late-Early. But the tech tree will be very different.

 

[Mailbox]

I guess what I meant was will they appear approximately after basic econ techs + perhaps a tier 2 unit type for defense, the same as the first 3 religions in base ffh2. Although those things might not exist in the new tech tree...

 

[Valkrionn]

Like I said.

 

[hbar]

So what you're saying is that the entire concept of the tech tree, including hunting techs and/or tiers will be entirely different?

 

[Valkrionn]

I'm saying that the techtree will be as different from FfH, as FfH is from Civ4. In the same direction, even; Specialization will be a big thing.

So yes. The techs will be completely different, the tiers will be completely different, and the concept itself will be changed, given something we're adding.

More, I won't say.

 

[Krieger66]

Two things I'll say: All traits granting promotions will grant extra promotions (as in, Aggressive would not give Combat1, but a new promotion with the same effects...

I don't like the sound of that...I liked aggressive before because it allowed me to get promos requiring combats' almost straight off the line. This kind of neuters that effect, unless it will be an alt choice for getting shock or cover, and you can choose to not take combat I if you want to just take II and formation(since there are no spearmen in RiFE).

Ophelia: I usually only build 3-5 total as well(though I capture a few dozen from the ai in most games), and I've never had problems building improvements.

 

[OpheliaImmortal]

One thing I noticed is the ai doesn't build enough workers, as they don't understand the work time changes. I am using 2-4 per city.. while they might have 3 total. It lets you really pull away later game, even in monarch/emperor.
I'm not used to playing this well
Ai seems on the other hand to be doing better strategically. Maybe it was fluke, but they were burning roads, aiming for my key resource tiles ect. ^_^ Still ran rampant with SOD but the engine has that problem.

 

[Valkrionn]

I don't like the sound of that...I liked aggressive before because it allowed me to get promos requiring combats' almost straight off the line. This kind of neuters that effect, unless it will be an alt choice for getting shock or cover, and you can choose to not take combat I if you want to just take II and formation(since there are no spearmen in RiFE).

Ophelia: I usually only build 3-5 total as well(though I capture a few dozen from the ai in most games), and I've never had problems building improvements.

I wouldn't worry about that. The promotion setup will be changed massively, and there will indeed be spearmen. And a few other new unitcombats.

One thing I noticed is the ai doesn't build enough workers, as they don't understand the work time changes. I am using 2-4 per city.. while they might have 3 total. It lets you really pull away later game, even in monarch/emperor.
I'm not used to playing this well
Ai seems on the other hand to be doing better strategically. Maybe it was fluke, but they were burning roads, aiming for my key resource tiles ect. ^_^ Still ran rampant with SOD but the engine has that problem.

More workers could be a good thing for the AI, yes. I'll look at that function once I'm done adding things the rest of the team needs... Adding a major mechanic right now (Will affect barbs, Kurios, a few new civs, reworked Dural... An eclectic mix, indeed ), and then a bunch of "minor" mechanics (IE, additional capabilities for units/promotions/etc). Then the Spell System. Then probably merging the "Advanced Automations" from AND.

At least I've been very productive over the past few days.

On SoD: Try the latest SVN revision, it incorporates xUPT. Set a maximum stack size, and go.

 

[Krieger66]

I wouldn't worry about that. The promotion setup will be changed massively, and there will indeed be spearmen. And a few other new unitcombats.

On SoD: Try the latest SVN revision, it incorporates xUPT. Set a maximum stack size, and go.

Sounds like there will be alot of happy gamers with the new patch. Will the svn revisions(and xupt) be included in the main patch eventually though, so people who are just casual civers' can find it?

 

[shoggi]

Of course they will.
SVN is just the more convenient tool, while stuff is still changing a lot.
Once something is finalized we can then make a new patch or full version.

 

[Valkrionn]

What Shoggi said. We're just working towards a 1.4 release.

 

[OpheliaImmortal]

Is there something in the script that makes the AI realllly hate the Dural? Because playing as them you can expect to be betrayed, and and in my last game I saw AI Dural get dogpiled by everyone on the map. Evil, Good, Religion, didn't matter.. everyone just attacked the Dural.