Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
There's been a few requests to see some strategy discussion of the balanced game, so here we go! 
I started a new game yesterday with the latest Balance - Combined adjustments (and the beta build of City Development v. 7) to see how things feel. I'm playing epic immortal on a standard pangaea with normal settings. I picked the Ottomans to try out Suleiman's trait. If you have any thoughts, comments, or interesting strategies you've discovered using these balance adjustments or ones like them (such as CCMAT), feel free to share!
This is retrospective and analysis of the first half of the game, and how the adjustments are going in a "real game." I play a way I find fun as long as it can win me the game, focusing more on enjoyment than perfect efficiency. At every stage and with every concept in the game I follow Blizzard's philosophy of asking, "Is this fun? If not, how can I improve it?" I don't remember who said this back in 2005-2006, but it's something I always keep in mind. I didn't think about recording the game until I read a few posts on some of the balance threads, so the screenshots are from the current state of the game.
Here's what I'm playing with:
My basic strategy after early scouting:
Darius and Harun al-Rashid border to the west, Wu Zeitan and Augustus to the north, Nebuchadnezzar and Napoleon to the east. Washington also started in the far northeast across the continent.
I managed to nab the Pyramids with an early beeline to Masonry. While it was building I got Pottery from a goodie hut, so I detoured to Stonehenge after the Pyramids and managed to nab it as my second wonder. I dropped down my first few cities with a focus on grabbing nearby luxuries.
Bronze Working revealed my third city had Iron nearby (reveal of Iron moved in Units), so I got Iron Working and started towards Catapults while preparing for a war with my nearest neighbor, Nebuchadnezzar. He was teching rather fast and leaping ahead in score, so I joined Augustus in a request to go to war together against Neb.
I knew it would take me a while to get my army fully prepared, so I took a bet and dropped my first great general down as a Citadel on Ankara's source of iron. I felt the advantage of an impregnable defense (hilltop surrounded by open terrain), extra yield and immediate iron access outweighed the combat bonus of the great general in this particular situation, especially since it'd be some time before my army was ready to go. (Citadels boosted to 2
2
in Terrain Improvements, and can access resources).
This allowed me to begin building catapults immediately, and it also provided an excellent defensive location to wipe out any pesky bowmen or horsemen Neb might send through the northern mountain pass.
I first tried attacking Dur-Kurigalzu, which Neb annoying planted down right next to my military city of Edirne. Even though his city placement had pissed me off, assaulting it proved to be a very bad idea. The narrow mountain pass and lots of hills meant I couldn't move in and break down Neb's walls faster than he could repair them. Recognizing a stalemate, I pulled out and swung around the mountain range to the west and north towards Nippur.
Meanwhile, the archer I'd placed in Ankara's citadel killed two bows, a horse and two spears Neb sent at me, gaining quite a bit of experience.
Nippur fell much more easily, especially since I had two catapults now and could besiege it in safety from across the river. My catapults had Acc/Siege and Bom/Siege. (Catapults have more effectiveness against cities with the Units adjustments, cities have +50% hitpoints and defensive buildings are stronger. General combat is also more balanced, horsemen aren't overpowered.) The city fell within about five turns of beginning the assault. The archers' experience defending the citadel and the siege on Nippur netted me a second great general, which I moved to my army for an offensive.
Moving out of Nippur's mountain pass, I started a careful cat-and-mouse game with a city Neb had planted down on the hilltop marked in red. Neb had built Walls of Babylon in all his cities, so it proved tough to take down. I had an alliance with Rome so I maneuvered my cats around to the north, shielding them from counterattacks with the river north of the city. With one swordsman, a pike, two cats and my nicely-promoted archer I managed to kill Neb's forces and slowly whittle his city down. Upon capturing it I spotted 5 more troops just to the east, so I pulled back and let him retake it, then took it back. The second capture triggered his surrender. Ending the war with a generous concession of about 500 gold and Dur-Kurigalzu (the city that had annoyed me earlier), I razed the other small city he gave me and settled in to do some back-fill of roads and improvements.
Meanwhile, a few other AIs sensed weakness in my Roman ally and dogpiled Augustus, taking two of his cities. After that skirmish ended, Augustus and Washington both requested I go to war with France. (I'd turned down the other usual war requests against various civs.) France was starting to piss off some other civs due to having the highest score of the game. Seeing an excellent opportunity since I was just finishing my war with Neb, and Napoleon was his neighbor, I accepted the alliance request.
Napoleon got hit from three sides and was wiped out rather quickly. I managed to snag one of his cities with gems, and another with incense. Augustus and Washington both captured about four cities apiece.
The war started slowing down because Napoleon's core cities were behind an impregnable wall of mountains. I managed to slip through the 1-tile opening in the southern pass, blocking Augustus and Washington's forces from the west. To the north is Singapore, which was an ally of Washington, so most of his forces hadn't attacked through that route. I captured Paris, mopped up Napoleon's last few units for extra experience, and accepted his surrender.
Meanwhile, anticipating a battle against Washington or Augustus (both of whom had double the score of other AIs) I dropped my third great general down to defend Nippur. I got a DoW agreement with Washington to attack Augustus, and spent the next ten turns positioning my army for a swift double-pronged attack.
One small force I placed near Ankara to clear out a few Roman cities west of the mountain range dividing the continent. In the east, with the aid of the Citadel I was able to defend from Augustus's forces when the DoW enacted, then counterattack. This is where my game leaves off for now.
--- Analysis ---
This has been one of the most fun games of Civ V I've played to date, which is what spurred me to start this thread.
I'm very happy with how a small-empire specialist economy is working out with the adjustments to the Tradition tree (in Policies), providing fun synergy with Suleiman's Lawmaker trait (Civilizations). I'm starting to get policies in the Freedom tree right now, and just researched Fertilizer, so my late-game economy is really going to ramp up. I've shifted from specialists to farms temporarily for a population boost until I can get Secularism (+2
/specialist). A specialist economy is working out well. With proper long-term planning it feels about equally as strong (great people included) as a tile economy. Specialist economies are improved in several places: Policies, City Development, and Terrain Improvements.
Combat balance feels perfect in Combat v. 13 (same as Units v. 13, newly-renamed for future versions). A combined-arms force is working very well, with 2 siege to take down cities, 2 footmen to capture them, an archer for ranged support, and a horseman taking out lone enemies scattered around the field or sneaking past my army. The Babylonian walls were challenging to take down, but manageable, and conquest picked up speed once I busted through Neb.
The AI seems to be handling the game balance adjustments very well. All the civs in my game have gone to war with their neighbors and captured a city or two. Augustus and Washington also were able to successfully capture several castled French cities, so the improved city defenses don't seem to be stonewalling AI conquest. This was my primary reason for playtesting this game, to see how the AI manages, and it's working out perfectly. There haven't been many DoW's on me, likely due to building Walls in every city to get the Agra Fort national wonder.
In addition, the AI's are building the terrain improvements intelligently. I've noticed a good mix of farms, mines, and trading posts in most of the same spots I'd build them as a human player using the Terrain Improvements balance adjustments.
I started a new game yesterday with the latest Balance - Combined adjustments (and the beta build of City Development v. 7) to see how things feel. I'm playing epic immortal on a standard pangaea with normal settings. I picked the Ottomans to try out Suleiman's trait. If you have any thoughts, comments, or interesting strategies you've discovered using these balance adjustments or ones like them (such as CCMAT), feel free to share!
This is retrospective and analysis of the first half of the game, and how the adjustments are going in a "real game." I play a way I find fun as long as it can win me the game, focusing more on enjoyment than perfect efficiency. At every stage and with every concept in the game I follow Blizzard's philosophy of asking, "Is this fun? If not, how can I improve it?" I don't remember who said this back in 2005-2006, but it's something I always keep in mind. I didn't think about recording the game until I read a few posts on some of the balance threads, so the screenshots are from the current state of the game.
Here's what I'm playing with:
Spoiler :
/10, rounded upMy basic strategy after early scouting:
- Game opener: small number of core cities, aiming for 10-15 population
- Tradition then Freedom
- Farms + specialist economy
- Prioritized three national wonders:
- Heroic Epic
- Baths of Trajan
- Agra Fort
- After getting well-situated, shift to military in the late clasical / early medieval period
- Transition to midgame strategy of conquest and puppeting.
Darius and Harun al-Rashid border to the west, Wu Zeitan and Augustus to the north, Nebuchadnezzar and Napoleon to the east. Washington also started in the far northeast across the continent.
I managed to nab the Pyramids with an early beeline to Masonry. While it was building I got Pottery from a goodie hut, so I detoured to Stonehenge after the Pyramids and managed to nab it as my second wonder. I dropped down my first few cities with a focus on grabbing nearby luxuries.
Bronze Working revealed my third city had Iron nearby (reveal of Iron moved in Units), so I got Iron Working and started towards Catapults while preparing for a war with my nearest neighbor, Nebuchadnezzar. He was teching rather fast and leaping ahead in score, so I joined Augustus in a request to go to war together against Neb.
I knew it would take me a while to get my army fully prepared, so I took a bet and dropped my first great general down as a Citadel on Ankara's source of iron. I felt the advantage of an impregnable defense (hilltop surrounded by open terrain), extra yield and immediate iron access outweighed the combat bonus of the great general in this particular situation, especially since it'd be some time before my army was ready to go. (Citadels boosted to 2
2 in Terrain Improvements, and can access resources).This allowed me to begin building catapults immediately, and it also provided an excellent defensive location to wipe out any pesky bowmen or horsemen Neb might send through the northern mountain pass.
I first tried attacking Dur-Kurigalzu, which Neb annoying planted down right next to my military city of Edirne. Even though his city placement had pissed me off, assaulting it proved to be a very bad idea. The narrow mountain pass and lots of hills meant I couldn't move in and break down Neb's walls faster than he could repair them. Recognizing a stalemate, I pulled out and swung around the mountain range to the west and north towards Nippur.
Meanwhile, the archer I'd placed in Ankara's citadel killed two bows, a horse and two spears Neb sent at me, gaining quite a bit of experience.
Nippur fell much more easily, especially since I had two catapults now and could besiege it in safety from across the river. My catapults had Acc/Siege and Bom/Siege. (Catapults have more effectiveness against cities with the Units adjustments, cities have +50% hitpoints and defensive buildings are stronger. General combat is also more balanced, horsemen aren't overpowered.) The city fell within about five turns of beginning the assault. The archers' experience defending the citadel and the siege on Nippur netted me a second great general, which I moved to my army for an offensive.
Moving out of Nippur's mountain pass, I started a careful cat-and-mouse game with a city Neb had planted down on the hilltop marked in red. Neb had built Walls of Babylon in all his cities, so it proved tough to take down. I had an alliance with Rome so I maneuvered my cats around to the north, shielding them from counterattacks with the river north of the city. With one swordsman, a pike, two cats and my nicely-promoted archer I managed to kill Neb's forces and slowly whittle his city down. Upon capturing it I spotted 5 more troops just to the east, so I pulled back and let him retake it, then took it back. The second capture triggered his surrender. Ending the war with a generous concession of about 500 gold and Dur-Kurigalzu (the city that had annoyed me earlier), I razed the other small city he gave me and settled in to do some back-fill of roads and improvements.
Meanwhile, a few other AIs sensed weakness in my Roman ally and dogpiled Augustus, taking two of his cities. After that skirmish ended, Augustus and Washington both requested I go to war with France. (I'd turned down the other usual war requests against various civs.) France was starting to piss off some other civs due to having the highest score of the game. Seeing an excellent opportunity since I was just finishing my war with Neb, and Napoleon was his neighbor, I accepted the alliance request.
Napoleon got hit from three sides and was wiped out rather quickly. I managed to snag one of his cities with gems, and another with incense. Augustus and Washington both captured about four cities apiece.
The war started slowing down because Napoleon's core cities were behind an impregnable wall of mountains. I managed to slip through the 1-tile opening in the southern pass, blocking Augustus and Washington's forces from the west. To the north is Singapore, which was an ally of Washington, so most of his forces hadn't attacked through that route. I captured Paris, mopped up Napoleon's last few units for extra experience, and accepted his surrender.
Meanwhile, anticipating a battle against Washington or Augustus (both of whom had double the score of other AIs) I dropped my third great general down to defend Nippur. I got a DoW agreement with Washington to attack Augustus, and spent the next ten turns positioning my army for a swift double-pronged attack.
One small force I placed near Ankara to clear out a few Roman cities west of the mountain range dividing the continent. In the east, with the aid of the Citadel I was able to defend from Augustus's forces when the DoW enacted, then counterattack. This is where my game leaves off for now.
--- Analysis ---
This has been one of the most fun games of Civ V I've played to date, which is what spurred me to start this thread.
I'm very happy with how a small-empire specialist economy is working out with the adjustments to the Tradition tree (in Policies), providing fun synergy with Suleiman's Lawmaker trait (Civilizations). I'm starting to get policies in the Freedom tree right now, and just researched Fertilizer, so my late-game economy is really going to ramp up. I've shifted from specialists to farms temporarily for a population boost until I can get Secularism (+2
/specialist). A specialist economy is working out well. With proper long-term planning it feels about equally as strong (great people included) as a tile economy. Specialist economies are improved in several places: Policies, City Development, and Terrain Improvements.Combat balance feels perfect in Combat v. 13 (same as Units v. 13, newly-renamed for future versions). A combined-arms force is working very well, with 2 siege to take down cities, 2 footmen to capture them, an archer for ranged support, and a horseman taking out lone enemies scattered around the field or sneaking past my army. The Babylonian walls were challenging to take down, but manageable, and conquest picked up speed once I busted through Neb.
The AI seems to be handling the game balance adjustments very well. All the civs in my game have gone to war with their neighbors and captured a city or two. Augustus and Washington also were able to successfully capture several castled French cities, so the improved city defenses don't seem to be stonewalling AI conquest. This was my primary reason for playtesting this game, to see how the AI manages, and it's working out perfectly. There haven't been many DoW's on me, likely due to building Walls in every city to get the Agra Fort national wonder.
In addition, the AI's are building the terrain improvements intelligently. I've noticed a good mix of farms, mines, and trading posts in most of the same spots I'd build them as a human player using the Terrain Improvements balance adjustments.
, so I consider these an ICS nerf.
/10, rounded up)"
from specialists), and I've been growing steadily. However, the period between starting conquest and getting Freedom was challenging and did result in unhappiness, about ten citizens emigrated from my empire, depopulating a few cities. Ankara, Edirne, and Konya were ~15pop before that.
)
