Best courthouse replacement?

[phoenix_sprite]

Sac. Altar.

It's cheap to make.

I like to whip. Enough said.

@The above poster, Earthling. I've had Monte a few times while generating a random Civ to play. I've never went out of my way to select the Aztecs in a specific manner.

 

[ICNP]

Sac. Altar.

It's cheap to make.

I like to whip. Enough said.

@The above poster, Earthling. I've had Monte a few times while generating a random Civ to play. I've never went out of my way to select the Aztecs in a specific manner.

I've never played an Aztec game either, but I have played with the Rathaus, and it is fine. But in MP? Charly has way worse stats than Monty.

 

[azzaman333]

The Sacrificial Altar is nowhere close to good enough to ever make a convincing case for playing as Montezuma. Somehow we still don't see top Hall of Fame or just Deity level games in general with the ol' Crazy Aztec. And Monty isn't even the most fun to play for early rushes just because you can, because of an awful UU. In fact, I wouldn't even say it makes up enough for Montezuma in a game between human players (Sumeria and HRE certainly can be better there, and the UBs accordingly).

If you only choose civs based on the easiest way to win, there's no point picking anyone other than Huayna Capac.

Also, most rushes I do don't wait til IW, they start with Bronze Working. With Monty's AGG axes, why use Jags?

Also, if you're bringing MP into it, Monty of Aztecs is actually quite powerful.

 

[Iranon]

@ Earthling:

Jaguars give you mobility the AI doesn't take into account, easy access to healers, a resourceless generalist and a free promotion that sticks. Demanding raw power on top of that seems excessive, and I don't find them potentially crippling because I don't consider regular swordsmen essential.

HoF is by definition one-sided, showings would be mostly about 'who's good at winning big if everything goes your way?'.
Survivability with a precarious starting position doesn't enter the picture, and Monty is quite good here: SPI aids diplomacy, and the UU helps you choke a neighbour or break out of a squeeze without strategic resources. Catapults + Archers is awkward; add AGG Jaguar Warriors and you're definitely back in business.

All in all, I find Monty very fun to play around with even if he's not the most powerful leader. Both Uniques need active use to pull their weight, SPI is a big bag of tricks. None of the top 3 UBs (Sacrificial Altar, Rathaus, Ikhanda) come in a particularly strong package imo.

 

[whats a navy]

I love the ziggurat. With a vulture rush you recover earlier, giving nice synergy and a snowball affect. The only downside you have is Giggle's traits (PRO/CRE). If he had good traits then it would be twice as good.

 

[Fleme]

^ Indeed. He should have a switch with Hammurabi and they'd both be better off but then that'd probably make the Sumerians a tad too powerful

I'm still a Rathaus-man though.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I like getting Rathaused too. But I don't see how that affects the courthouse debate (unless I end up there for being drunk and disorderly).

 

[ICNP]

^ Indeed. He should have a switch with Hammurabi and they'd both be better off but then that'd probably make the Sumerians a tad too powerful

I'm still a Rathaus-man though.

Hamurabi of Sumer could only be topped by Shaka of the Inca (that or Ragnar).

 

[Ataxerxes]

I don't understand this. I chose Ziggurat for espionage, recovery from Vulture rush, but the other 2 are quite good. I thought all 3 of these were among the better UB's.

Why would someone figure ordinary courthouse is good enough? If you're going to build a courthouse, all three of these are good improvements to standard. I'm wondering if one of the 12 would say why ordinary courthouses are good enough?

 

[Absolute Zero]

I don't understand this. I chose Ziggurat for espionage, recovery from Vulture rush, but the other 2 are quite good. I thought all 3 of these were among the better UB's.

Why would someone figure ordinary courthouse is good enough? If you're going to build a courthouse, all three of these are good improvements to standard. I'm wondering if one of the 12 would say why ordinary courthouses are good enough?

I'm not sure either, but it could be that they don't like the other aspects of the civs that have those UBs (like the leader(s) traits or UU). They might, for instance, prefer to have a leader with strong traits and a regular courthouse, rather than IMP/PRO and a Rathaus.

 

[azzaman333]

I love the ziggurat. With a vulture rush you recover earlier, giving nice synergy and a snowball affect. The only downside you have is Giggle's traits (PRO/CRE). If he had good traits then it would be twice as good.

CRE is a pretty damn good trait, IMO. (Arguably) the best trait for REXing.

Hamurabi of Sumer could only be topped by Shaka of the Inca (that or Ragnar).

Quecha already have combat I, there's no need for AGG with the Inca. I'd much rather be Pacal of Inca, retaining the FIN and gaining cheap terraces.

Also, ORG on Sumeria is overkill, you already have cheap courthouses, you don't need them cheaper. I'd much rather be Willem, Hannibal or Pacal.

 

[*Svart*]

monezuma wants blood! sacrificial altar ftw

 

[plasmacannon]

Best courthouse replacement?
This poll seems relavent, considering another post talking about the Rathaus.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I can't believe Rathaus is winning vs. Sacrificial Altar.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I can't believe Rathaus is winning vs. Sacrificial Altar.

After dike won "best UB" poll, I can believe anything. Next we'll be hearing about how great toku of germany is.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Whoops, it seems I voted for the Ziggurat rather than the Sacrificial Altar, I must have clicked the wrong box by mistake when drunk

 

[NihilZero]

I think I've changed my mind about the Zig (which I mocked a few posts back). Popping an early Great Spy could easily be enough to make this better than any maintenance reduction...don't know why this wasn't obvious to me before. It's cheaper than the Great Wall too.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I often get Code of Laws before priesthood though.

The priesthood path, while not the most expensive tech path, does slow down other early techs.

 

[Caeserportugal]

I voted for the Rathaus thoguh I think all 3 are good. The Rathaus of course combines well with Charlemagne Imperalistic trait and allows the Holy Roman player to have lots of cities on the map. The Sacrificial Altar combined with Slavery and Monty's Agressive Trait can allow you to make an army and whip infrasteacture that much easier and the Ziggurat's main benefict is that it comes with Priesthood not Code of Laws which helps in the early game

 

[CornPlanter]

After dike won "best UB" poll, I can believe anything. Next we'll be hearing about how great toku of germany is.

This is general discussions...

I started reading Strategy forums a few years ago and I felt like a student first year in University... oh my god there's so much I don't know! I never pushed Civ too much but over these years I learned enough from you guys to even beat Immortal like 1/3 games. And I still felt like a student because all of you improved your skills too, even more than I ever did. So even if I climbed difficulty ladder higher and higher, I didnt get the feeling of "getting better" or improving, because just about every regular Forum user still played better than me like it was in the beginning.

It's only after I started reading General Discussions I realized how much I really learned and how much I improved Not to be rude, but just about every thread here is funny when it comes to whats best or whats most efficient.

Sorry for offtopic