Hey, love your mod! Been playing it MP over LAN with a couple of friends, and it has been great fun the last years. I installed the beta and I noticed that the highlands and lakes maps don't really get past the initializing point on map size Giant while other maps generate in max 5 mins. When I start these maps in huge it takes pretty long. The game doesn't crash or anything, just takes longer than 15 mins to initialize (after this I just shut down the game, it did start the game once though). Wonder if it's just because of the map size, or that there is some kind of generation loop or something?
BETA: 1.25 (#2)
- Thread starter Xyth
- Start date
rsab
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
- Messages
- 189
Hi Xyth,
Cool you’re there! We missed you ;-)
I didn’t dedicate much time on Civilization lately. And I must be sincere and say I played mostly on version 1.24 since I find 1.25 too unstable in some aspects, specially on diplomacy. For me, 1.24 version is really a great game and work, I greatly enjoy it, the best version of Civilization games for my personal taste, and that could be (after small adjustments) the definitive version of HR, specially seeing that 1.25 implies a massive amount of work adjusting and balancing.
Mate, music on 1.25 is incredibly immersive, great job.
Said that, I state some minor things I’ve found on 1.25 lately, playing on WINDOWS system:
· Statue of Liberty seems has a requirement: needs to be built in a coastal city. That makes sense. But this requirement is not stated on the Wonder description. This insignificant issue was present in previous versions too.
· It appeared me the words “Fake Tech” at least on 2 different places: on the main screen when you point a Natural Wonder on the Map, and on Civilopedia when checking the “Extra Cargo” promotion.
· And talking about “Extra Cargo” promotion: this promotion also works for Dromons, so Dromons can transport units if they have this promotion, is it intended? I always thought it was applied only on transport ships. I’m not sure if in previous versions worked the same way.
· The “Turn on citizen automation” button not always works. Example: I have this button selected, I manually click on other spots and this button becomes unselected, and if I click the “Turn on citizen automation” button again it doesn’t move to the previous selected spots). That didn’t happen in previous versions.
· The “Statistics” screen for buildings doesn’t work (actually didn’t work for previous versions).
· I have had a strange issue with a worker movement, and maybe is related to the encampment improvement. I have a worker located on an encampment and it can’t move south directly, but he can go to the spot on south if he first moves to another spot. Rare. I attach a saved game so you can see yourself.
And let’s go with Diplomacy, what I find the most unstable mechanic at this moment. AI is constantly offering and canceling pacts, agreements and commerce. It’s quite tedious for my taste to deal with it, and feels not coherent. I was very happy with the Diplomacy on previous versions. And supposing all the new Diplomacy features work fine, I’m not sure if maybe there are now so many options, could feel overwhelming. Not sure, we must play, explore, and see.
Here a couple of diplomacy issues that I’ve already posted, but not sure if I was understood properly (not the highest english language skills, sorry):
· Let’s see the case “Mehmed and his elephants”, and help yourself with the pics attached: The message “Mehmed will trade Elephant” is not true. Check the “Resources to Trade” section on the Foreign Advisor or open the diplomacy dialogue with Mehmed: you will see he has 2 elephants but actually he doesn’t want to trade them with you.
· And another issue very common: sometimes the dialogue screen misses the main information. On attached pic Mehmed says “We are terminating this deal”… but the deal doesn't appear described. I suspect this issue happens with the deal Right of Passage, since when Mehmed wants to cancel the Embassy the word Embassy appears correctly.
When testing 1.25, I focused on some issues from 1.24 just to see if they were still present on 1.25, and is nice to see they’ve been solved (Jetavaranamaya cost, adjustment of Aspiration tenets…). But I had no time to check some others issues (that I felt important) yet:
· On 1.24 there was an issue with temples providing different bonuses (food, commerce or production) depending on the city and apparently randomly. I could not verify yet if this still happens in 1.25. But I will take a look on this point on next days.
· Also I didn’t check if Culture Victory has been adjusted. It was bugged on Marathon Speed: should have been 125000 instead of 1250000.
And just to finish:
Taking a deeper look on the Mod files, on text file called “About”, it appears the name of some of us who dedicate some time to test the new versions. That was surprising and absolutely unnecessary, but I must say I felt pleased to see my name on your mod. I’m not very on the games (just a couple of strategy games) neither the computers, so to see my name on a videogame credits it’s been funny.
Let me, once again, to thank you for your great job.
Cool you’re there! We missed you ;-)
I didn’t dedicate much time on Civilization lately. And I must be sincere and say I played mostly on version 1.24 since I find 1.25 too unstable in some aspects, specially on diplomacy. For me, 1.24 version is really a great game and work, I greatly enjoy it, the best version of Civilization games for my personal taste, and that could be (after small adjustments) the definitive version of HR, specially seeing that 1.25 implies a massive amount of work adjusting and balancing.
Mate, music on 1.25 is incredibly immersive, great job.
Said that, I state some minor things I’ve found on 1.25 lately, playing on WINDOWS system:
· Statue of Liberty seems has a requirement: needs to be built in a coastal city. That makes sense. But this requirement is not stated on the Wonder description. This insignificant issue was present in previous versions too.
· It appeared me the words “Fake Tech” at least on 2 different places: on the main screen when you point a Natural Wonder on the Map, and on Civilopedia when checking the “Extra Cargo” promotion.
· And talking about “Extra Cargo” promotion: this promotion also works for Dromons, so Dromons can transport units if they have this promotion, is it intended? I always thought it was applied only on transport ships. I’m not sure if in previous versions worked the same way.
· The “Turn on citizen automation” button not always works. Example: I have this button selected, I manually click on other spots and this button becomes unselected, and if I click the “Turn on citizen automation” button again it doesn’t move to the previous selected spots). That didn’t happen in previous versions.
· The “Statistics” screen for buildings doesn’t work (actually didn’t work for previous versions).
· I have had a strange issue with a worker movement, and maybe is related to the encampment improvement. I have a worker located on an encampment and it can’t move south directly, but he can go to the spot on south if he first moves to another spot. Rare. I attach a saved game so you can see yourself.
And let’s go with Diplomacy, what I find the most unstable mechanic at this moment. AI is constantly offering and canceling pacts, agreements and commerce. It’s quite tedious for my taste to deal with it, and feels not coherent. I was very happy with the Diplomacy on previous versions. And supposing all the new Diplomacy features work fine, I’m not sure if maybe there are now so many options, could feel overwhelming. Not sure, we must play, explore, and see.
Here a couple of diplomacy issues that I’ve already posted, but not sure if I was understood properly (not the highest english language skills, sorry):
· Let’s see the case “Mehmed and his elephants”, and help yourself with the pics attached: The message “Mehmed will trade Elephant” is not true. Check the “Resources to Trade” section on the Foreign Advisor or open the diplomacy dialogue with Mehmed: you will see he has 2 elephants but actually he doesn’t want to trade them with you.
· And another issue very common: sometimes the dialogue screen misses the main information. On attached pic Mehmed says “We are terminating this deal”… but the deal doesn't appear described. I suspect this issue happens with the deal Right of Passage, since when Mehmed wants to cancel the Embassy the word Embassy appears correctly.
When testing 1.25, I focused on some issues from 1.24 just to see if they were still present on 1.25, and is nice to see they’ve been solved (Jetavaranamaya cost, adjustment of Aspiration tenets…). But I had no time to check some others issues (that I felt important) yet:
· On 1.24 there was an issue with temples providing different bonuses (food, commerce or production) depending on the city and apparently randomly. I could not verify yet if this still happens in 1.25. But I will take a look on this point on next days.
· Also I didn’t check if Culture Victory has been adjusted. It was bugged on Marathon Speed: should have been 125000 instead of 1250000.
And just to finish:
Taking a deeper look on the Mod files, on text file called “About”, it appears the name of some of us who dedicate some time to test the new versions. That was surprising and absolutely unnecessary, but I must say I felt pleased to see my name on your mod. I’m not very on the games (just a couple of strategy games) neither the computers, so to see my name on a videogame credits it’s been funny.
Let me, once again, to thank you for your great job.
Attachments
KeeperOT7Keys
did nothing wrong
diplomacy seems pretty buggy in this version, AI is very inactive. They never declare wars against each other (on monarch) even when aggressive AI is enabled. I only saw AI declaring wars either when there is a rebellion or if some civ bribes the other. In 1.24 it's even possible to see AI rushing with 4 archers if it feels pushed.
This is of course a behavioral thing and not explicitly a bug.
Additional to the previous post, AI gives relation penalties after cancelling an agreement themselves (right of passage), I constantly get negative modifiers without a reason.
not a bug but a suggestion, I always see/feel industrious and creative traits are OP and leaders with them dominate the game. Instant production and commerce bonuses are huge during early-mid game. I think these powers can be changed into free kiln/tanneries.
I also think slavery is not a good civic and it's almost always better to go with agrarianism instead. Even more slavery dissent is greater than agrarianism which increases the unbalance. I think it would be better with quarries getting +1
and plantations +2
. I know there is also the whipping factor but I feel it should be somehow improved.
Currently a (more primitive) forest with an orchard or camp is much better than a plantation-slavery-jungle start which makes it really hard to play the game if you start in a jungle area.
Because slavery is weak this also affects the imperialism trait, because its only non-war bonus is about whipping which makes it very useless with the current slavery. I've never seen a successful imperialist AI leader in the game. I think something like free stables could be a nice trait ability, representing ancient chariot-empires that also can sustain more trade in a large empire.
This is of course a behavioral thing and not explicitly a bug.
Additional to the previous post, AI gives relation penalties after cancelling an agreement themselves (right of passage), I constantly get negative modifiers without a reason.
not a bug but a suggestion, I always see/feel industrious and creative traits are OP and leaders with them dominate the game. Instant production and commerce bonuses are huge during early-mid game. I think these powers can be changed into free kiln/tanneries.
I also think slavery is not a good civic and it's almost always better to go with agrarianism instead. Even more slavery dissent is greater than agrarianism which increases the unbalance. I think it would be better with quarries getting +1
and plantations +2. I know there is also the whipping factor but I feel it should be somehow improved. Currently a (more primitive) forest with an orchard or camp is much better than a plantation-slavery-jungle start which makes it really hard to play the game if you start in a jungle area.
Because slavery is weak this also affects the imperialism trait, because its only non-war bonus is about whipping which makes it very useless with the current slavery. I've never seen a successful imperialist AI leader in the game. I think something like free stables could be a nice trait ability, representing ancient chariot-empires that also can sustain more trade in a large empire.
rsab
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
- Messages
- 189
Hi Xyth, here some reports from 1.25:
Saludos
- I miss being able to see the Diplomatic Glance where you cans see the relations of the AI (I can not see anymore the opinions between 2 AI civs). Probably it's because Foreign Advisor is not yet finished.
- On Foreign Advisor, the columns "You receive" and "They receive" are inverted. I mean when I export a resource it appear on the "You receive" column, and viceversa.
- On those same columns, if I exchange various resources on the same deal (e.g. exporting Seal+Wheat in exchange of Gold), it only appear the icon of one of them (even if appears written the 2 resources actually exchanged). Maybe it's because of lack of space.
- AI is offering me resources I already own. It only makes sense once Corporations are active, and I can not remember the AI offering resources you don't need in previous versions.
Saludos
rsab
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
- Messages
- 189
One more issue related to diplomacy:
When offering a trade deal to the AI, the "What would make this deal work?" option doesn't seem to work properly. AI always responds "I don't see how we can make such a deal" instead of making a counter-offer for making the deal go on.
Example:
I offer to the AI a Seal source in exchange to a Wheat source. He doesn't accept. So I say: "What would make this deal work?" an he responds "I don't see how we can make such a deal". But if I offer a Seal + Rice for the Wheat, then he accepts. So the normal behaviour should be he suggests me to add this other resource to make the deal work.
I hope I expressed well.
When offering a trade deal to the AI, the "What would make this deal work?" option doesn't seem to work properly. AI always responds "I don't see how we can make such a deal" instead of making a counter-offer for making the deal go on.
Example:
I offer to the AI a Seal source in exchange to a Wheat source. He doesn't accept. So I say: "What would make this deal work?" an he responds "I don't see how we can make such a deal". But if I offer a Seal + Rice for the Wheat, then he accepts. So the normal behaviour should be he suggests me to add this other resource to make the deal work.
I hope I expressed well.
rsab
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
- Messages
- 189
Hi Xyth, I can confirm version 1.25 also have some bugs related to religious buildings. Here I attach a game were my temples and monasteries (the ones of my state religion) provide +2production with no reason.
I'm playing on Windows system.
KeeperOT7Keys
did nothing wrong
didn't check your save but it's an undocumented effect of apostolic palace in the game
rsab
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
- Messages
- 189
Ok, it could make sense, in this game I own Apostolic Palace.
So Apostolic Palace gives +2production to every religious building of your state religion? It could be, but I'm surprised never before I've got to link this issue to the Apostolic Palace Wonder.
s.bernbaum
Mostly lurking
If anyone, human or AI, builds the Apostolic Palace, then everyone gets the +2 hammer bonus for buildings that are for the state religion that the builder had at the time the AP was finished. It does not matter what religion anyone is running. As long as the AP effect persists, which it will until the owner discovers media tech (having a mental block here might be the wrong name, the tech that also allows the UN), all buildings of that religion will have the +2 hammer bonus. This is from unmodded BTS, so unless Xyth has changed it, that is what happens.
rsab
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
- Messages
- 189
Here some other impressions:
- As others stated here, me I also find the AI being more passive than it was in previous versions.
- After around 20 games, I can confirm now it's very rare to get friendship from AI. I mean I never get good attitude towards me (green faces).
