Blowback

[Estebonrober]

I want to share this podcast with the community here for educational purposes and entertainment purposes. I have been completely shocked by the extent of America's "Forgotten War". Full disclosure my brother and sister are both Korean, born in Souel in 1979 and 1982 and adopted by my parents in 1985. So, this story has a personal aspect for me. As I have grown up and continued learning and reading into my 40s now, I can say I am still surprised at the depth of depravity my nation's actions have gone to in its tactics to attain global hegemony. As a born and raised Catholic conservative it has been a long slow awakening to the nightmares of the reality of US policy. Commuphobia and the Red Scare tactics over a hundred years ago still leaves a legacy of mass propaganda, mass violence, and support of dictatorial regimes that no one who believes in the American values we are indoctrinated with could justify. It's a big buy in but these guys put in the leg work, and it is both entertaining and educational. They do have a pay website, but all their episodes are on this YouTube page including past seasons and their 4th season on Afghanistan. The second season on Cuba was also particularly enlightening.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWghIVErqy0Adthf1_mLOlldlJPFY6vlV

Discussion on these would be welcome by anyone. Has anyone listened to any of this already?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Interesting. I am not much of a podcast person and at 12 minutes in, only the last 2 minutes held my attention. I stopped at that point to post this. I will resume later. At the point I stopped, it appears to be on a path of blame the US and capitalism for NK's plight. But I will withhold judgement until I've heard more.

 

[Estebonrober]

Interesting. I am not much of a podcast person and at 12 minutes in, only the last 2 minutes held my attention. I stopped at that point to post this. I will resume later. At the point I stopped, it appears to be on a path of blame the US and capitalism for NK's plight. But I will withhold judgement until I've heard more.

There is a lot of shade given to the Us in all of these series, hence the name blowback. That said, here in the US the history taught is a far cry from reality, and I do want to point out that almost all the information relayed in these podcasts are from US sources and usually directly from the people involved in the decision-making process. So that adds a lot of credibility to the show as a whole. Hearing Lemay's and Kenney's (sp?) thoughts on the bombing of NK is some of the most damning things I've ever heard anyone speak.

They do downplay or even make fun of Kim Il Sung's thought process of initiating the conflict.

Still considering all the stuff that has been slow leaked out over the years; the retrospective is nice and illuminating. I still do not understand the Red Scare or the commuphobia that took over in the US from 1945-95 and why it found such purchase among even the working classes here.

 

[Birdjaguar]

There is a lot of shade given to the Us in all of these series, hence the name blowback. That said, here in the US the history taught is a far cry from reality, and I do want to point out that almost all the information relayed in these podcasts are from US sources and usually directly from the people involved in the decision-making process. So that adds a lot of credibility to the show as a whole. Hearing Lemay's and Kenney's (sp?) thoughts on the bombing of NK is some of the most damning things I've ever heard anyone speak.

They do downplay or even make fun of Kim Il Sung's thought process of initiating the conflict.

Still considering all the stuff that has been slow leaked out over the years; the retrospective is nice and illuminating. I still do not understand the Red Scare or the commuphobia that took over in the US from 1945-95 and why it found such purchase among even the working classes here.

The political anti commie hysteria of the post war years was a rightwing "thing" that "took over" the political stage much like we have seen others such phases. The Soviet army had won WW2; communist uprisings appeared in many places around the world; the soviets had stolen US bomb tech and now could match the US in threatening the world. Soviet rhetoric was all about world domination. The ground work was in place for demagoguery. The high pitched hysteria softened into a more nuanced "competition" once McCarthy passed and we made it through the Cuban Missile crisis. Reagan was a bit of a throwback (aged related, imo) who was backed by all the aging Greatest Generation vets. The 1950s were a time of genuine fear of nuclear war. New tech can do that easily.

 

[Hygro]

That said, here in the US the history taught is a far cry from reality, .

this is quite regional and cannot be generalized. The history I was taught in public school was quite accurate and exposed our ugly, glorious, and boring truths alike.

 

[Zardnaar]

Part hysteria part truth. Soviet army essentially raped its way west, expelled ethnic Germans and lots of refugees fled west bringing those accounts with them.

We can see what NK does as well they're one of the worst regimes closest thing to Stalinism left.

North Korea invaded got flattened.

 

[REDY]

From Czech school I allways thought that Mccarthyism was unfound fascists hysteria against leftists.
The worst of doing were CIA false evidences and framing of innocent people. But the threat was very real, the more I was reading the more I was suprised how much and on how many places was US infiltrated.
Regards Korea I do not know much. There was Czechoslovak mission there and some conspiracy theories are about Czechoslovak doctors making experiment on US soldiers. But many historians are sceptical.

 

[Estebonrober]

Part hysteria part truth. Soviet army essentially raped its way west, expelled ethnic Germans and lots of refugees fled west bringing those accounts with them.

We can see what NK does as well they're one of the worst regimes closest thing to Stalinism left.

North Korea invaded got flattened.

Yea, you and you in particular need to listen to this podcast. The level of wrong you are here is epic.

From Czech school I allways thought that Mccarthyism was unfound fascists hysteria against leftists.
The worst of doing were CIA false evidences and framing of innocent people. But the threat was very real, the more I was reading the more I was suprised how much and on how many places was US infiltrated.
Regards Korea I do not know much. There was Czechoslovak mission there and some conspiracy theories are about Czechoslovak doctors making experiment on US soldiers. But many historians are sceptical.

So far with only a few exceptions those "infiltrators" were jsut American communists. America should not have political persuasions that are banned no matter what those positions are... being sympathetic to international communists and even sharing information should not have been criminal since there was no actual war going on. NK was not a war. Vietnam was not a war. I could go on. So, any "communist" subversion was not even possible. Instead, we used fear and an insane campaign of legal persecution to squash even normal union support.

this is quite regional and cannot be generalized. The history I was taught in public school was quite accurate and exposed our ugly, glorious, and boring truths alike.

Really? So why did we drop the bombs on hiroshima and nagasaki? I know what I was taught and what is still being taught in the midwest. What do they teach in Commufornia?

The political anti commie hysteria of the post war years was a rightwing "thing" that "took over" the political stage much like we have seen others such phases. The Soviet army had won WW2; communist uprisings appeared in many places around the world; the soviets had stolen US bomb tech and now could match the US in threatening the world. Soviet rhetoric was all about world domination. The ground work was in place for demagoguery. The high pitched hysteria softened into a more nuanced "competition" once McCarthy passed and we made it through the Cuban Missile crisis. Reagan was a bit of a throwback (aged related, imo) who was backed by all the aging Greatest Generation vets. The 1950s were a time of genuine fear of nuclear war. New tech can do that easily.

Except most of what you listed is just the propaganda that played over here. Stalin abolished the commintern in 1943. Soviet rhetoric was not about world domination at all but supporting workers worldwide. There is a huge gap between those two things. I will grant you there is a huge gap between the freedom we supposedly spread from the reality of almost a century of supporting dictators worldwide.

You should finish the rest of this seasons and then listen to season two on Cuba. They use some more Cuban sources and of course they love che, but again almost all of the sources are US and mainly directly from Kennedy administration files.

They supply links to their sources btw, almost all of which are US academic historians. There is a shift that has been happening in history academics and historiography especially since the early 2000s. The truth of this stuff is becoming more common knowledge, and it is shifting opinion among the youth especially the college educated youth. Contrary to reactionary opinion this is because the actual truth is coming out not propaganda.

 

[Hygro]

Really? So why did we drop the bombs on hiroshima and nagasaki? I know what I was taught and what is still being taught in the midwest. What do they teach in Commufornia?

To win unconditionally, quickly, with low American casualties, and keep Russia out of Japan.

 

[Birdjaguar]

So far with only a few exceptions those "infiltrators" were jsut American communists. America should not have political persuasions that are banned no matter what those positions are... being sympathetic to international communists and even sharing information should not have been criminal since there was no actual war going on. NK was not a war. Vietnam was not a war. I could go on. So, any "communist" subversion was not even possible....

I hope you realize just how ridiculous this post is. Ask the veterans of Korea and Vietnam if they fought in a war. Ask the Ukrainians if they are in a war with Russia. The cold war was not a war? Where were you in 1955? Where were you during the Cuban missile crisis? Counter espionage is only allowed if war has been declared?

 

[amadeus]

I got 24 minutes in. So many sound clips (of what?) and disjointed structure. I thought this was about Korea?

It seems like they’re denialists that don’t know there is documentation from Soviet archives where Kim Il-sung is pleading to Stalin for assistance and permission to attack, the latter which he finally receives in 1950.

 

[Hygro]

To win unconditionally, quickly, with low American casualties, and keep Russia out of Japan.

My teachers talked about it with more nuance, a demonstration of the bomb for its own sake.. I mean like many things it’s obviously a lot of things going into it. We discussed how it might not have been necessary for near term but that there’s a debate about that.. but primarily to do what it did which was end the war in such a quick and decisive way that would also cut the Soviets out of future Japan.

 

[Estebonrober]

To win unconditionally, quickly, with low American casualties, and keep Russia out of Japan.

Only the last part of that is accurate per Truman's personal notes. Also, I want to add there was never any intention of ground troops landing in Japan until surrender. We had already bombed 40 Japanese cities to on average 43% destroyed.

 

[Hygro]

If you think about it, the former is a precondition for the latter.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I think the invasion of Japan was pretty far along in planning when they surrendered.

Operation Downfall - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Estebonrober]

I hope you realize just how ridiculous this post is. Ask the veterans of Korea and Vietnam if they fought in a war. Ask the Ukrainians if they are in a war with Russia. The cold war was not a war? Where were you in 1955? Where were you during the Cuban missile crisis? Counter espionage is only allowed if war has been declared?

Well, this is my point actually. I get the hyperbole of the time, but the Cold War was completely manufactured on our side (look at what Roosevelt and Churchill was working on vs what Truman ends up doing). I'm curious about how it got so carried away as to ruin so many lives here in the US and abroad. Why was the propaganda so successful?

War time policies such as draconian espionage prosecution should only be pursued in times of war (running constant police actions and massive fear propaganda is not war and it's not very "American"). I would hope any rational American would agree. I mean we've been at "war" my entire life. Most of my life has been both sides railing against the Patriot Act and its overreach and it is far less draconian than the Red Scare.

I'd rather leave Russia and Ukraine out of this as neither is soviet or even socialist at all atm. The moment I concede the validity of the entire cold war project then keeping tabs on sympathizers is justified but not the railroading of people's lives or the completely insane murder of the Rosenbergs.

All of this is a sidebar to the Korean War insanity. 3million people dead. Every city bombed to complete ruin. All to subjugate a people that never wanted us there... There is a theme in that last part.

I think the invasion of Japan was pretty far along in planning when they surrendered.

Operation Downfall - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Truman says this was not why the bombs were dropped. So, it can be planned all it wants, after Okinawa and from some comments from generals after the war the idea was getting side barred.

If you think about it, the former is a precondition for the latter.

I did not know so many here were like the firebombing of tokyo and dresden were awesome. Jesus. So, I guess most commenters on this thread think Russia should just go full monty on Ukraine? and Israel on Gaza? Total War? I get the mentality but not with my tax dollars especially as an imperial project which Korea definitely was...

I got 24 minutes in. So many sound clips (of what?) and disjointed structure. I thought this was about Korea?

It seems like they’re denialists that don’t know there is documentation from Soviet archives where Kim Il-sung is pleading to Stalin for assistance and permission to attack, the latter which he finally receives in 1950.

its in there keep going. they make fun of mao for warning Kim about taking on the world's pre-eminent imperial power and then Kim kicking our ass, Mao having to come save hima nd then falling into the same over confidence Kim fell into. Its all in their with their corispondence to each other...

It's definitely the other side of the story, so no its not going to be history channel rah rah America stuff because the facts do not support that narrative.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The path to dropping the first A-bomb was painstakingly slow and challenging

The first time an atomic bomb was ever exploded was on July 16, 1945 in NM. Way too late for use in Europe. Nobody knew if it would even work or what would happen. With the success of the test in NM, "Little Boy" was partially assembled during the last week of July on Tinian and the nuclear component added on July 31. Hiroshima was bombed on August 6.

"Fat Man" was prepared at the same time and was dropped on Nagasaki on Aug 9. The two bombs were structurally different and had different triggering mechanism.

Gen. Leslie Groves expected to have another "Fat Man" atomic bomb ready for use on 19 August, with three more in September and a further three in October; a second Little Boy bomb (using U-235) would not be available until December 1945. On 10 August, he sent a memorandum to Marshall in which he wrote that "the next bomb ... should be ready for delivery on the first suitable weather after 17 or 18 August." The memo today contains hand-written comment written by Marshall: "It is not to be released over Japan without express authority from the President.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yea, you and you in particular need to listen to this podcast. The level of wrong you are here is epic.

North Korea invaded the South da?

If you dont potentially want to get flattened idk how about not invading?

 

[Zardnaar]

I did not know so many here were like the firebombing of tokyo and dresden were awesome. Jesus. So, I guess most commenters on this thread think Russia should just go full monty on Ukraine? and Israel on Gaza? Total War? I get the mentality but not with my tax dollars especially as an imperial project which Korea definitely was...

They got firebombed for a reason. They weren't exactly innocent on that themselves.

Otherwise see previous comment on invading other countries.

Not sure how a defensive war after an invasion is Imperialist. Bit of a logic gap there.

 

[amadeus]

It's definitely the other side of the story, so no its not going to be history channel rah rah America stuff because the facts do not support that narrative.

I mean how they are bouncing around from one topic to the next without really constructing a solid narrative. Maybe they do down the line, but I don’t have all day to find out where it starts.

This isn’t a problem with their history, because after 24 minutes, I still don’t know it. This is a problem of presentation, and I’m not engaged in this one.

And I’m not starting from zero: I’ve read Cumings as part of my college courses. I don’t remember much of it, but I don’t hold him in high regard.