[BNW] First culture victory on king - how I did it.

yosefm

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Sep 26, 2010
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I've just recently upgraded from G&K to BNW (behind the times, I know) and one thing I found most compelling was the new culture system. I tried 3 times with Brazil and failed, last attempt I was so close but the Shoshone gave a growth spurt and surprised me with a score victory in turn 500...

Anyway, this time I succeeded, and I'm here to share my strategy and hear your opinions. I've read some manuals and advice on CV here and elsewhere but eventually did not follow it exactly.

So I was Egypt. I wanted to do a tall empire, but I remembered it wasn't strictly necessary. I started mostly with Liberty to get my first cities up, rapid expansion with little regard to money or happiness. The only thing I stopped for was getting enough faith for my own religion (burial tombs helped), and a Messenger of the Gods pantheon to cover for my initial disregard of tech. I also used a Mongolian attack on Sydney to finish his army and take eventually his 2 cities, getting rid of a neighboring warmonger.

Next phase I mostly stuck to tall + 2 puppets, but eventually built 2 more cities to keep up with the score fight and have more growth kernels. Later, to get more boost in light of competition fromn the 2nd continent, I took Spain's 3 cities. This was the end of the expansion, at the late industrial era.

I used almost all of the great artists/musicians/writers for great works. I've read somewhere that musicians are better used for tours, but I did the following math: the real culture game begins in the modern era as works accumulate and hotels and airports begin to be built. Then your base tourism is boosted a lot, so you need every penny in the base. The high rate of tourism rise in the late game means that any great musician you expend on tours will be less significant than he is on accumulated and boosted great-work tourism. I only used 3 musicians for tours, one during the Olympic games boost for 3000 tourism, one for 4000, and a last one in the internet age for about 8000. Not playing with Brazil released a lot of great artists I would otherwise expand on golden ages.

On tech I did the usual beelining of cultural stuff as much as possible, except in the early game when I gave it less emphasis - as I said, the culture game really begins quite late, and you want to have a good base to play those eras.

I took the Freedom ideology, and had a penalty with all other civs. They alwasy look burdened enough to switch but never did (in my previous game I switched my worst enemy). Eventually it didn't matter. I didn't use spies to steal tech at all, always diplomats, and later spies I placed in city-states. Of course I tried to spread the trade routs to all civs, later only the minimum one as I could gain influence from sending them to city-states.

Still, I had a tough race. The game was won in turn 437 or so, narrowly close to losing on score, as I was a few dozen points behind the Shoshone, again my competitors. I found that measured expansion is essential.

So, what do you think? How do you play it? What could I improve?
 
You should try Sacred Sites. It's cheating on lower difficulties like king.

Strategy: Found capital. Get scout,scout,shrine,monument,scout,scout,settlers....

Get pantheon that generates the most faith.
Get religion with monasteries ( the cheapest building ) and tithe ( you need gold a lot when you do this ).

Open liberty, get your free settler, then open piety and go to the reformation belief asap get "sacred sites" ( +2 tourism from religion buildings ) and then another religious building ( usually I get mosques/monasteries ).

Now plant those cities! Plant 12-13 cities and just build shrines/monuments and then temples. If a city has nothing to do, you could build a worker or just more settlers if the city grows to 2 pop. Usually I just stagnate the cities and work like a 2 hammer hill so they make buildings faster.

Then you get Philosophy tech, build oracle in capital to get deeper into piety faster, and then you build temples in your cities that finished their shrines/ monument.

The most important thing after that is finding all the AIs as quickly as possible so you influence them with your tourism. That's why you build scouts ( and boats if you need to ) and run around the map as fast as you can.

Then once you're close to victory you time it to finish Liberty, get a Great Musician, gift one of your cities to the last AI you need to bomb, and then declare war on him ( if you have no open border ) and concert his face ALL DAY.

This can easily produce sub-100 turn culture games on standard speed at emperor and below difficulties lol.

Try it on Settler difficulty to get the hang of it. It's hilariously stupid and feels like cheating.
 
Looks like you're playing on Huge by the numbers of scouts and cities. Is that right?
I usually play on Standard, I don't have that much free time :/
 
Also, what is the importance of gifting that city? Why would I do that?
 
You can do this on any size map. Standard works best probably, I dunno. You do need some space for a lot of cities but that's not a problem unless you play Deity. On Deity the AI starts with two cities so that eats up the space fast.

Might also not work so well on a small/tiny map.

You give the AI a city so that you can bomb it with musicians without having to travel all the way over to his territory. Usually the last guy you need to influence will be some guy on the other side of the world. Way faster to just give him a city and then musician bomb it instantly.

Here's a guy doing it with Maya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KUSfT_JtxY
 
You should try Sacred Sites. It's cheating on lower difficulties like king.

Strategy: Found capital. Get scout,scout,shrine,monument,scout,scout,settlers....

Get pantheon that generates the most faith.
Get religion with monasteries ( the cheapest building ) and tithe ( you need gold a lot when you do this ).

Open liberty, get your free settler, then open piety and go to the reformation belief asap get "sacred sites" ( +2 tourism from religion buildings ) and then another religious building ( usually I get mosques/monasteries ).

Now plant those cities! Plant 12-13 cities and just build shrines/monuments and then temples. If a city has nothing to do, you could build a worker or just more settlers if the city grows to 2 pop. Usually I just stagnate the cities and work like a 2 hammer hill so they make buildings faster.

Then you get Philosophy tech, build oracle in capital to get deeper into piety faster, and then you build temples in your cities that finished their shrines/ monument.

The most important thing after that is finding all the AIs as quickly as possible so you influence them with your tourism. That's why you build scouts ( and boats if you need to ) and run around the map as fast as you can.

Then once you're close to victory you time it to finish Liberty, get a Great Musician, gift one of your cities to the last AI you need to bomb, and then declare war on him ( if you have no open border ) and concert his face ALL DAY.

This can easily produce sub-100 turn culture games on standard speed at emperor and below difficulties lol.

Try it on Settler difficulty to get the hang of it. It's hilariously stupid and feels like cheating.

Before you win, how are you defending your settlers against barbarians? Doesn't the AI try and take out all your cities?
 
Before you win, how are you defending your settlers against barbarians? Doesn't the AI try and take out all your cities?

That's what the scouts are for.

For a non cheese strategy (SS won't work on probably Emperor or above), just use Deau's culture guide.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=501996

There's really no reason for me to rewrite the book on this because he did such a good job of it the first time around. A 437 CV on King is very late, and can be optimized quite a bit.
 
I've just recently upgraded from G&K to BNW (behind the times, I know) and one thing I found most compelling was the new culture system. I tried 3 times with Brazil and failed, last attempt I was so close but the Shoshone gave a growth spurt and surprised me with a score victory in turn 500...

Anyway, this time I succeeded, and I'm here to share my strategy and hear your opinions. I've read some manuals and advice on CV here and elsewhere but eventually did not follow it exactly.

So I was Egypt. I wanted to do a tall empire, but I remembered it wasn't strictly necessary. I started mostly with Liberty to get my first cities up, rapid expansion with little regard to money or happiness. The only thing I stopped for was getting enough faith for my own religion (burial tombs helped), and a Messenger of the Gods pantheon to cover for my initial disregard of tech. I also used a Mongolian attack on Sydney to finish his army and take eventually his 2 cities, getting rid of a neighboring warmonger.

Next phase I mostly stuck to tall + 2 puppets, but eventually built 2 more cities to keep up with the score fight and have more growth kernels. Later, to get more boost in light of competition fromn the 2nd continent, I took Spain's 3 cities. This was the end of the expansion, at the late industrial era.

I used almost all of the great artists/musicians/writers for great works. I've read somewhere that musicians are better used for tours, but I did the following math: the real culture game begins in the modern era as works accumulate and hotels and airports begin to be built. Then your base tourism is boosted a lot, so you need every penny in the base. The high rate of tourism rise in the late game means that any great musician you expend on tours will be less significant than he is on accumulated and boosted great-work tourism. I only used 3 musicians for tours, one during the Olympic games boost for 3000 tourism, one for 4000, and a last one in the internet age for about 8000. Not playing with Brazil released a lot of great artists I would otherwise expand on golden ages.

On tech I did the usual beelining of cultural stuff as much as possible, except in the early game when I gave it less emphasis - as I said, the culture game really begins quite late, and you want to have a good base to play those eras.

I took the Freedom ideology, and had a penalty with all other civs. They alwasy look burdened enough to switch but never did (in my previous game I switched my worst enemy). Eventually it didn't matter. I didn't use spies to steal tech at all, always diplomats, and later spies I placed in city-states. Of course I tried to spread the trade routs to all civs, later only the minimum one as I could gain influence from sending them to city-states.

Still, I had a tough race. The game was won in turn 437 or so, narrowly close to losing on score, as I was a few dozen points behind the Shoshone, again my competitors. I found that measured expansion is essential.

So, what do you think? How do you play it? What could I improve?

Well done!
 
Good job.

Aside from sacred sites, you also want to bee-line for hotels, national visitor's centre and the internet, then if you didn't already, get airports. After that get yourself some mech infantry and blow up anybody who doesn't love your culture.

Make sure you get your guilds up. You might want to fill in Exploration, because if youre a wide empire you have a lot of space for artifacts. You can get culture boosts and great writing works from hidden digs in addition to art.

At King / Emperor you can try all sorts of fun (but not necessarily "optimal versus the AI") strategies, so just pick and choose what you want to do!
 
There's really no reason for me to rewrite the book on this because he did such a good job of it the first time around. A 437 CV on King is very late, and can be optimized quite a bit.

SS works great on emperor, but not so much on Immortal.
At that point, for some reason, the AI starts making giant aggressive armies.

Anyway, as for settler protection, you barely need any, just settle your city 4 tiles away from the next so that it starts to carpet the land. This will clear the barbarian camps automatically with city bombardment without you having to build any units.

With scouts you can also escort settlers far away and be KIND of safe, but at lower difficulties the map is just a swarm of barbarians usually and all they do is go right for your units. They've never even HEARD of attacking A.I. civs haha.

The beauty of settling on luxuries is also that barbarians can't pillage them, and they can't steal workers. You also don't have trade routes for the most part so there's no stupid barbarians spawning right next to your city and duplicating themselves from stealing trade routes.

It's the funniest strategy of all time :D
 
Aside from sacred sites, you also want to bee-line for hotels, national visitor's centre and the internet, then if you didn't already, get airports. After that get yourself some mech infantry and blow up anybody who doesn't love your culture.

I went for airports right after hotels, seemed natural and I was thinking of another war. But now that you say it, maybe it is smarter to go for Internet first. It does give a higher percentage on all culture.
 
Always internet before airports unless you're planning on killing a civ with bombers
 
You should try Sacred Sites. It's cheating on lower difficulties like king.

Strategy: Found capital. Get scout,scout,shrine,monument,scout,scout,settlers....

Get pantheon that generates the most faith.
Get religion with monasteries ( the cheapest building ) and tithe ( you need gold a lot when you do this ).

Open liberty, get your free settler, then open piety and go to the reformation belief asap get "sacred sites" ( +2 tourism from religion buildings ) and then another religious building ( usually I get mosques/monasteries ).

Now plant those cities! Plant 12-13 cities and just build shrines/monuments and then temples. If a city has nothing to do, you could build a worker or just more settlers if the city grows to 2 pop. Usually I just stagnate the cities and work like a 2 hammer hill so they make buildings faster.

Then you get Philosophy tech, build oracle in capital to get deeper into piety faster, and then you build temples in your cities that finished their shrines/ monument.

The most important thing after that is finding all the AIs as quickly as possible so you influence them with your tourism. That's why you build scouts ( and boats if you need to ) and run around the map as fast as you can.

Then once you're close to victory you time it to finish Liberty, get a Great Musician, gift one of your cities to the last AI you need to bomb, and then declare war on him ( if you have no open border ) and concert his face ALL DAY.

This can easily produce sub-100 turn culture games on standard speed at emperor and below difficulties lol.

Try it on Settler difficulty to get the hang of it. It's hilariously stupid and feels like cheating.

Well, I finally tried it. first two tries were on Emperor and failed, one because the computer beat me to sacred sites and the other because I selected a random map and got archipelago (and also didn't restrict city growth so it was hard to plant more).

this time I went for king. Even here there is some luck involved. The computer didn't try so hard for sacred sites, but he did take the best faith pantheons and monasteries - I was left with mosques and pagodas.

Anyway I ended up with 15 cities, and I didn't even get to invent GMs, I played with Pedro and used golden ages to get the last boost I needed for the final competitor. All in all it was less than 200 turns, I guess if I had a faith CS nearby I would have gotten a better pantheon and done it with less. It really was an easy win :)

I don't think it would work on higher levels but I learned things, so that's good.
 
The guide mentioned above is excellent apart from the odd quibble http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=501996

While you can get away with almost anything at King and below, a sharper focus is needed for better play.

Forget Piety, the AI loves it and you'll be very lucky to get Sacred Sites.

Tradition is regarded as way superior to Liberty. Apart from anything else, how can you build those national wonders (starting with National College and ending with Visiter Centre) with a map full of cities?
 
Well, this exploit wasn't meant as a serious strategy for the high levels, poxpower specifically mentioned it's for the lower levels. I'm now practicing early National College in another game, I build three cities before starting it but next time I could do 2...
 
Tradition is regarded as way superior to Liberty. Apart from anything else, how can you build those national wonders (starting with National College and ending with Visiter Centre) with a map full of cities?

For sacred sites spam, you don't build anything but monuments, shrines and temples, and then just archers or coliseums / caravans / markets as needed afterwards.

The only tech you need is theology. You basically aim to win the game before turn 150 on standard speed. You might get to drama and poetry to build a writer's guild.
 
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