BOTM 10 First Spoiler

DynamicSpirit

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BOTM 10 First Spoiler



Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 10, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER
  • You must have reached at least 500 AD in your game, OR
  • You have submitted your entry


Posting Restrictions

  • Please do not discuss anything post 500 AD.
  • Please do not discuss any events in locations or reveal any of the map not reachable before caravels.
  • Please do not name any civs that are not contactable before caravels.
 
Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 19, then you MUST NOT read this thread
I don't know if I will be playing BOTM19 or not. At present I'm not.:p Don't we have like 9 months to make up our minds about that? :mischief:

In BOTM10, I settled in place, expanded eastward until blocked off by Washington (i.e. I settled one city before being blocked). My goals as stated in the pregame discussion were fairly modest:

Spoiler :
So, to improve over my last Deity effort, I will focus on (1) founding a second city before I am destroyed (2) building some kind of defensive unit better than a warrior before I get DOW'd by someone (3) Survive at least to 1000BC. Believe me... these are fairly ambitious goals.

My stretch goals are to build a wonder or found a religion or (dare I consider) capture a city. It would be nice to be alive at the 500AD spoiler date, too... but I fear that is probably too much to hope for.


My tech path was fish>BW>Sail>AH or something like that. From test games I decided I wanted to settle that other landmass asap, to double my chances of surviving to 500AD. But the scout walked almost all the way home, so I was pleasantly suprised that its one land mass! My next (third) city went on the coast just N of the stone somewhere. I never did much coastline surveying since I didn't want OB with Rome especially. At 500 AD I have met Ghenghis, Washington, Rome, Mali. Two unknown.

Still alive at 500AD. Check!
Founded a city. Check!
Built units above warrior. Not DOW'd by anybody yet. Check!
Built Maoi Statues in capitol, which isn't a World Wonder,but it technically counts as a Wonder. Check!
Captured city. Check! (Barbarian city almost shouldn't count... they are even more backwards than me... but I captured 4 and razed 1, so that will have to suffice).

Anyhow, back to the story. After the techs named above, beeline alpha. However, when alpha reached, everyone already so far ahead I have nothing to trade with. I think chances of victory (slim as they were) are gone. In fact, I am so backwards, I have already been given a pity tech from more advanced civ (Mali).

Rome is rolling over the Mongols, so I am shifting diplomatic bonuses (religion, trading partners, civics, even joined his war but never saw battle) to kiss his backside as much as posssible, without pissing off Washinton who is my immediate neighbor and has been my patron most of the game up to 500AD.

All in all... I'm wondering whats wrong with these BtS Deity AI? they seem very meek compared to the Vanilla Deity AI we faced in GOTM a little while ago. But I am safely and securely in last place, with maybe half the score of the 2nd to last civ. :blush:

I think my goal for the rest of the game is to last until the end (i.e. not lose by conquest). It will probably take some careful diplo. Otherwise, to not finish last among the civs (Kahn is likely to save me there). And to max score when I can.
 
Well, I was not as lucky as you.

I settled well at the beginning, securing the copper source and was trying to keep an overall good defence level.

OUt of memory, as I payed the game the day it was available and did not last long ...

However suddely Ceaser and his legions appeared on my doorsteps and took me out all my cities. I could resist the first wave of assault, but soon more legions appeared and swept me but for my capital thanks to a lucky " peace intermediary ". War started in BC already....

I was already "en route to try to get the AP and sowhow try to magic a victory this way, but then another AI (I think Pacal) came and gave me the fatal blow without much of a warning.

Game was over on 530 AD.

I think I'm not ready for Deity yet ....
 
Contender Save

This game felt like an Emperor game. I started settling aggressively towards Washington....I was able to get 3 cities on the starting landmass before getting over to the stone/gems city.

I decided to forget about any wonders. I made a semi beeline to alphabet and was able to catch up some. I made some really good trades by partially researching techs, then trading.....Once I got to COL, I settled the other landmass really strong as the Ratheus is crazy awesome. I was able to keep my research up quite nicely.
I got along with everyone and gave in to allmost every demand.....I adopted the Patrick Swayze philosophy....Be nice until its time to not be nice.

The other AI's were in constant war with each, which was nice. I was doing really well.....better than expected. The next update will tell what victory condition I chose and why.
 
My game was quite short... Barbarians founded a city close to my capital and soon after 6 warrior attacked at once (5 of them was in one stack. they killed my second city which could have sent me the copper... i gave up after that.
 
I took the adventurer save to try and ease the pain of deity. I used my work boat and scout initally to explore the 'other' landmass. My scout died before it figured out it was connected. I went for hinduism straight off and I think I would have got it if I had used my work boat on the clams right away, Alas I was beaten by a few turns.

So then naturally I tried for buddhism, and this time got it. Well that was the first time I'd founded a religion in GOTM, I had no idea what I was going to do with it. Nonetheless at 500 AD there are four buddhist nations and everyone seems to like me apart from Mansa Musa who got a little ganged up on by being the only civ who didn't share a religion. I do agree that these Deity AI seem meeker than the Vanilla/Warlord versions. Noone has been broken yet.

I have 7 cities, which is a lot more than I expected to have. one from settling in place, one by the copper and 5 on the other bit. I possibly should have had more on the initial landmass as again I lost my first settler to barbs while looking for some possible nicer lands to the east. Not a good idea to take such risks on deity.

One thing I think I did right is concentrating on military early on instead of getting too distracted by other things, if I can do that more often on lower levels I think I will improve.

I'm not sure if I got the balance right though as the support for the army means I'm running on 0 or 10% science, still trying to research monarchy, I have no alphabet as I thought the AI would all get it before me anyway and I'd focus on techs which would keep me alive.

Naturally I trail the AI in techs by a long way and this is the major factor in me having about half the score of the next AI, which is Khan I think. With the reasonably nice lands I've got from the barbarians hopefully I'll be able to speed up, and I'll keep my eye out for any opportune wars I can piggy back in. Then maybe a religious/diplo victory could happen if I'm lucky.
 
A short summary:
7 cities, 40 pop, no ww, no nw, still lots of land to the west for settling, no war.

I think, I'll go for a space victory but Mansa is teching like hell and if someone declares war the game is alsmost certainly over.
 
Contender save.
Missed GW. Then I hopelessly watched all the other AIs thrive and build wonders while I was busy defending my small empire from the barbs. In late BC I felt comfortable again, got some further cities on the northern peninsula, whipped Rathauses, and traded for Longbows and quite some other techs...when suddenly, out of nowhere, JC decides to crush me. It took him 3 waves (some 50 units) of Praets and Horses (or were it Knights?) to capture more than half of my empire (everything on the mainland). Game over. Well, not completely...I got peace then due to some random event or AP, and painfully played this game through to the end, finally submitting something which was at least no conquest loss.

Wish I had taken the adventurer save. I really liked the map, and with an adventurer head start, I think every VC could have been possible.
 
I'm still alive and fighting Genghis for 6th place:). I have 8 cities, all but the fiirst on the pennisula to the west. A barb city popped up almost immediately to the east and about 4-5 warriors almost put me back to one city (I had settled near the gems an stone at this time. The city was taken not much later with Praetorian which pretty much made me wet my pants. Prets around 2000 BC. But JC did not attack me, but the barb city and hisw troops blocked the eastern expansion. I kept my economy affloat using swords to take barb cities, and kept a few. and have colonized the best spots on that western pennisula and the pece of land south of it that it connects to.

Note- with the patch barb galleys are a major pain, partiuclaily this map. I wasn't ready for this and it put a major dent in my development
 
I played this game without much thought or preparation (or care), as I posted in BOTM9 final spoiler I wasn't' even sure I was going to try at all, but since it's deity I figured "how long would it take before I get killed anyway?" I literally have never PLAYED a deity game, let alone won one.

Against all odds, I survived (though I certainly have not thrived, at least post-AD). Even though both my starting warrior and scout were killed very early, almost in the first barbarian battles they were in LOL. Fortunately I had rushed two other warriors to do fogbusting almost right away, so I was not totally defenseless after that happened. Because the scout was killed, I never found out that the "other continent" was really the same continent, until it was too late (MM was colonizing/captruing barb cities in most of the western area).

Without much thought, I decided maybe I would try to get a cultural or diplomatic win or something, so I went for Hinduism and got it. Later on I decided to go for the oracle and actually got it too (the only world wonder i managed to score so far) and grabbed CoL with it. Partly because I was building oracle, and partly because I was screwing around trying to get get two religions in my capital (which didn't work), I delayed expansion past two cities on the starting continent until after I got Confucianism -- I was literally beaten to the third/fourth cities this side of the mountains by two turns, the settler were en route. One settler ended up going to the other landmass (nice spot up there, working the gems and dye -- my first GP, a scientist, built an academy there), and the other, believe it or not, did actually grab a (different) spot for third city on mainland, between Washington and JC, on the north coast working the gold and cows and fish (i guess that got left open because Washington expanded towards me?) I had to build a lot of cultural buildings, but it has established a solid hold on all three resources.

Partly because of grabbing CoL very early & then getting alphabet and trading like a madman, I picked up a lot of techs via trade for a while, but that just delayed my inevitable fall into the tech backwaters though, towards the end of BC I simply was not able to keep up with the leaders, the only civs I could trade with were Suryvaran and Genghis. But they would not trade, partially due to fact that I had to declare Judaism as my religion (even though I founded Hinduism and Confucianism! -- so much for that strategy) in order to keep Washington as happy as possible -- as otherwise he could probably squish me like a little bug on whim -- then exacerbated because I DOWed on Genghis when JC and WK asked me to join, because I wanted the relationship bonuses for common enemy etc ... I'm not even sure I knew where GK was located when I DoWed him, lol.

So that's where i"m at, I still haven't played too much past 500AD (maybe 800?). I've done whatever I thought I needed to do to survive -- surprising myself that I succeeded -- but having no clue how I could actually win. I am behind in score and in tech to everyone but GK and WK (WK and I go back in forth on who is second to last in score -- GK has last all sewn up I think), Washington and Mansa (Jewish both) are friendly with me, GK is furious, and everyone else is cautious. Washington just founded Islam though, the only religion he founded, and if he switches to that, life could get interesting. When I fire it up again this weekend, I'm going to sit and look at it a while to see if I can come up with some kind of plan that at least has a snowball's chance ...
 
This game presented some problems with initial decisions for me. I really like BW for the pop-rushing, but not having Mining would mean researching 2 Techs to get to it. The remote scout revealed some nice territory on the nearby island (before getting killed within a few turns of the start :( ) but I'd need to research Fishing AND Sailing to take advantage of that territory. Being Deity I knew I'd want Alphabet fast, so I decided I could research Fishing (for the Clams) then forget about Sailing or the BW path, and go straight to Alphabet (through AH).

I built Workboats for the clams, and eventually a Worker. Workboats also did scouting for me. Washington, the Khmer, and Rome made early contact with me. I found Mansa Musa with a Workboat; Mongols found me later, and Korea much later. So all contacts by around 0 AD.

One gut check moment early on - a barb Warrior attacked while I had a single Warrior, but he did little damage. Random events were unkind early on - a Barb city popped up about 6 spaces to the East choking off my expansion, and the first 2 random events caused me some extra disorder when converting to Slavery, and emptied out my grainbox after building a granary.

I got to Alphabet by around 1700 BC (for some reason the first session did not store dates in the log file). Only Rome had Writing already, so I was able to use Writing to get most of the initial Techs. Alphabet got me BW and Math, and most anything else already learned that was tradeable (except for Theo which Mansa Musa got for the Oracle.)

I have 3 cities - my capital founded in place, Prague founded NW of the Stone on the coast, and Vienna founded on the Iron to the West. A barb city 3 moves NW of Prague has been putting some pressure on the city, but the Archer bonuses have allowed the city to hold its own; I eventually expect to use Iron-based units to eliminate this problem.

I continued on a Currency - COL - CS - Paper route. I've traded for MC, the religious Techs, Const. and Calendar along the way. I'm missing Aesth, Machinery, Theo and Feudalism vs most, I'm up Paper (except MM), CS and Paper vs Rome, and Rome has Phil, Korea has Compass. I just got my first GS - Philosophy would have been a great trading Tech, but with Paper, the GS goes to Education and I wouldn't want to trade that away. So I plan to learn Phil, trade that for most of the missing Techs, and use the GS for Education to get a jump on the Liberalism Tech.

I've managed to keep out of any wars up to 520 AD, and have given in to about half the demands along the way. I gave COL to Rome when Julius demanded it, but recently the Mongols demanded 210 Gold and I said no - he was at war with Rome, Korea and Mansa Musa so I didn't think he wanted a 4th. Rome vassalized Korea early on, so currently Rome and Korea are at war with the Khmer, and separately with the Mongols. MM is also at war with the Mongols. America and I are the only peaceful civs at the moment. The Khmer captured the barb city just to the East of me, so I expect at some future time I must capture it from him, with help from America.

Long term plans - I don't really know. Perhaps a SS attempt, but I will need more space and have to take at least a few cities, so I'll see if I survive that attempt.
 
Sounds like I'm in the same place as some of you. 500 AD, nine cities, pretty crappy economy, sort of aimlessly wandering through this game with no particular victory condition in mind :rolleyes:. I've played enough Deity to know that isn't going to work, pretty sure this will end up a loss.
 
The map is very generous and I expect to see many winning submissions.

There are only three risks, none of them too hard to deal with:

1) barbarians (inc. galleys)

2) crashing the economy

3) Ceaser

1) and 2) are simple: build some units, don't overexpand. Ceaser is more of a problem because there isn't much leverage. In my game I chose to sacrifice some land so that Washington settles in the middle.

The rest is pretty much hitting "end turn". Even with subpar MM I got Lib in 400ad and solid tech lead by 600ad.

Moderator Action: Post 500AD Information Removed - DS
 
The map is very generous and I expect to see many winning submissions.

There are only three risks, none of them too hard to deal with:

The rest is pretty much hitting "end turn". Even with subpar MM I got Lib in 400ad and solid tech lead by 600ad.

If its so easy, why don't you provide a little more detail on how you accomplish it? Did you get all the AI to war each other? Tech path? Build order? Tiles worked?

I have tried just hitting "end turn", but somehow my deity efforts seem to come up short anyhow.:p
 
The map is very generous and I expect to see many winning submissions.

There are only three risks, none of them too hard to deal with:


1) and 2) are simple: build some units, don't overexpand. Ceaser is more of a problem because there isn't much leverage. In my game I chose to sacrifice some land so that Washington settles in the middle.

The rest is pretty much hitting "end turn". Even with subpar MM I got Lib in 400ad and solid tech lead by 600ad.

I agree with KC sweede on this, if it is so easy then please enlighten us with details.

From the minimap it is obvious that you could expand to the east, a path that was not available to me (caeser blocked me off by taking a barb city around 2000BC with Praets scared me away) directly to the east. Did you have a clear path, or did you take barb cities before the AI did. I think to have the best shot at winning the game you need a few cities to the east as the land is just plain better than on the pennisula. I expanded much farther to the west, which was not as economicalyt viable (though our unique building made it more viable).

I did find that I was at one point even or slightly ahead of the AI in tech, but it did not last, I am curious to see if you can keep your advantage.
 
... 1) and 2) are simple: build some units, don't overexpand ... The rest is pretty much hitting "end turn". Even with subpar MM I got Lib in 400ad and solid tech lead by 600ad.
I'll join the chorus of kcd_swede and blastoid. Apparently this is superty-duper easy to do: "build some units, don't expand too fast, and just keep hitting end turn, even if you do other things "subpar" it shouldn't matter!" (hey, I can hit the end turn button pretty well, cakewalk victory here I come! :crazyeye:). But for some reason it's very difficult for one to elaborate on details beyond ten words? For example, did you occasionally hit hit some of hte other buttons in the lower right too, like the ones that let you trade with the AIs?

If you read any of the prior spoilers you should know that there is no one else so far who even expects to win (except possibly cabledawg?), let alone found this "simple"/"not hard" .... so this implication it's such a cakewalk that it's not even worth elaborating comes off a bit ... odd.
 
I was doing really well.....better than expected.
Hey, just curious what this means? Well and better than expected means you were at or near the lead at 500ad? Or ???

I ask because, for me, "better than expected" merely means "still alive, and not permanently locked into last place in score" :king:
 
at 500 Ad I believed I had a "shot" to win the game. I was near the top in tech, in a group of 3 on the bottom of the board and not to far from the top. Alsoe the other civs were in two maps that did not like eachother and usualy at war. I did not at this point think I had the win, but I had noticed in other BOTM's some mid game weaknesses in the AI that I may be able to exploit.

I do think this was winnable game, but you need to be really good and have some decent luck or be really lucky and fairly good.


A questions. Did anybody do the walls chop for money thing. I just never got it together enough to take advantage of it.
 
I was able to establish 4 cities near original start:
- capital in place
- copper city
- wheat city near the river, SE from capital
- and 3 tiles S from capital on a peninsula, mostly living from fishing, shaing hills with capital.

I did several mistakes, that slowed my development a lot. I think techs should be:
- Fishing
- Archery
- Mining, BW
I did it differently, as a result my warriors had to defend against barbarian archers. The benefit of faster settlers was for nothing, as after I did the first one it had to stay in the city before I could prepare military strong enough to fight barbs.

Another problem was barbarian galleys destroying fishing nets. Delays in development caused, that I did not have triremes soon to defend the nets. Barbs destroyed like 2-3 nets and few of my galleys, I destroyed some barb galleys too. Waste of resources.

Other civs stayed peaceful for long time, only Korea seeing my weakness came and took copper city. I had to wip strong military, they destroyed improvements around original 4 cities slowing development a lot.
 
But for some reason it's very difficult for one to elaborate on details beyond ten words? For example, did you occasionally hit hit some of hte other buttons in the lower right too, like the ones that let you trade with the AIs?

Did you know that left-clicking my nick lets you find my posts in a dozen deity strategy/succession threads, or my own threads, including the famous 10,000 words walkthru Justinian's University: Defeating the Deities?

If you read any of the prior spoilers you should know that there is no one else so far who even expects to win (except possibly cabledawg?), let alone found this "simple"/"not hard" .... so this implication it's such a cakewalk that it's not even worth elaborating comes off a bit ... odd.

This game is "not hard" as BTS deity games come because there's no boxing risk and low DoW risk. It's "simple" in a sense there's no need to use advanced stratagems to win, i.e. early blocking, preemptive DoWs, Oracle diplomacy, culture war, etc.


PS. The pics in Justinian's and some other of my posted games (notably ABCF first deity challenge) went missing when the civfanatics database was hacked. Comments and saves are still available.
 
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