BOTM 18 Final Spoiler

[Niklas]

BOTM 18 Final Spoiler

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 18, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless

• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Please do not reveal locations of modern resources (coal and later)

So how did you fare in reclaiming your birthright?

 

[kcd_swede]

So how did you fare in reclaiming your birthright?

Had only 4 cities at 1AD. But lots of cottages, iron and copper. I started on a stack, and Justinian di ne a favor by DOW on me. I quickly captured his city on the NE side of the mountain range using swords/axes against archers and an ax. If I had about 15 more units I could have taken Constantinople (#1 in Top 5 Cities list). But I am first to Civil Service (no, no Oracle, just the hard way) and trade for machinery and upgrade to maces. Before I am done upgrading the AP ends the war.

I just kept building units, though. 2 maces are led by GG and one warrior is a supermedic. I have cats and xbows. I am ready to take on Ramses. I am able to take his city that has his only source of metal (at the S end of desert on the river). Now I have 6 cities and things are looking up. But the AP steps in agains and ends the war.

Ramses does not waste the peace, he builds units (though I did not know it at the time)

Then the AP votes on whether to return Ramses city to Ramses. DEFY! Then for good measure I DOW Ramses, thinking that the AP cycle willl require a new election before the next vote so I should have 8 or 10 turns to take another city.

no go.

Ramses hid a stack of Trebs and War Elephants behind his city which looked defended with only 2LB's and a sword. A big stack. My stack was defended by 1 spear and 2 LB's, and consisted of 3 cats and 10 very highly promoted maces and 1 supermedic. My entire stack was eliminated in a single battle... did not kill a single Egyptian unit. To add insult to injury, Justinian chooses this turn to DOW me and recapture his old city. Ramses I buy peace with a tech in hopes of eeking out some survival. Justinian won't talk at all. I was drafting maces (I won liberalism race and took nationalism) as fast as possible, but Justinians knights just went through my cities like a hot knife through butter.

Conquest defeat 1565AD or thereabouts.

Curse that Apostolic Palace! Although in honesty even without its interference my odds of victory in this one were pretty slim. Just too small settled area and too low production to keep up with aggressive AI. My only hope was to get to Mass Media first and build the UN. I had Pleased/Friendly (+14 or higher) with all my Jewish bretheren (Mansa, Zara, and Gilga). Too bad the damn bhuddists built the AP.

I'd like to say nice game and thanks to the game admins for a challenging scenario (just to be polite, because I'm still too chagrined to really mean it at this point )

 

[mtt9999]

Wow. KCD Sweede. I am surprised by this stunning defeat. Thought for sure when I started reading your post you were well on your way to some domination victory. This is quite the surprise

I congratulate you on your effort, and your determination to get out of the desert - as opposed to my wimpy effort of hiding there and attempting to wow the world with my artistic cultural merit. I too was frightened of the agressive AI's.

My result later. Still at work.

 

[Adama]

Prologue: This was the first xOTM I've ever retired from... 16oo's IIRC.

Fought some good fights, built mainly barracks and units, and attacked where I could.

Fought here and there, I think I was at war with Mansa Musa, maybe, when large stacks of Justinian military (I had figured him for the most peaceful of my step-brothers) starting tromping through my territory. My diplomatic skills could not identify who his target was. One turn after I got peace with Mansa, Justinian DoW'd him. If I had waited a turn or two... I might have made some headway with his help.

Fought against, and captured Barb cities until they became isolated targets hemmed in by AI culture (not profitable for me).

Attacked and fought another war. As before, I manage to capture a couple of border cities, but get bogged down and face stronger forces and sue for peace.

I am falling behind. Justinian (still fighting Mansa- a lengthy AI war, but with seemingly little city exchange), invites me to join him in warring against M&Ms. I take a city easily, and think I may have a chance to construct an empire... alas, though, not to be. My last shot at any foreseeable way to win this game ended when M&Ms capitulated to Justinian and the war ended.

Like so many other spoiler posts here, I was behind, cramped, lacked production or commerce, and had not built any other infrastructure which might have allowed for another VC.

So, in a move very unlike me, I retired for the very first time from an xOTM.

Better luck to everyone!
Adama

 

[VerbalKint]

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 17, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless

• You have submitted your entry

Should probably read BOTM 18

 

[Fluxx]

Ok here we go.

Settled on Copper.

This game I had 3 cities for a LONG time. Settled next to the river, made a small mistake somewhere and missed an easy to settle plains spot that could help with production.

I had a tech advantage the entire game due to mass cottage economy, sadly enough I had no way of getting the mids due to lack of production.

Kept teching, while aiming fast at gunpowder. Wanted to get the UU ASAP to benefit fully of it.

Tech advantage, build 7 UU, and declared on Rameses shortly after making him DOW on Justinian.
Went for a sneak attack, captured 1 prod city fast, but got unlucky on rolls on the 2nd city, no siege because of lack of prod.
Then the worst thing happened, Saladin of all civs vassaled Rameses.
About 50 turns later I got very impatient.

I was actually 6 turns away from research rifling around 1400 AD, but I thought I saw a window, and made a humungous blunder, I dowed rameses without knowing his power.

Needless to say I got steamrolled by both civs just before Rifling got researched and I retired.

Was dumb move, but feeling helpless with only 4 cities against the other civ's 10-12, with no production city whatsoever.

 

[Niklas]

Thanks VerbalKint, fixed.

 

[Markus5]

The little CIV that time forgot.


Almost.
4 cities and way behind in tech, I just kept trying to be nice and get along. Everyone liked me and gave me little presents. All my step-brothers fought constantly. There was no chance that I'd win after the early bad luck. The test games I played made no difference other than to show me how fickle lady luck can be. If the early barbs had showed up in patterns like the test games, then maybe I'd be happier.

I played to the bitter end. In the 1860s, Egypt finally declared. I knew the strength of the AIs, and wanted to see how long it would take Egypt to roll over me. There is no intelligence in AI. Artificial Stupidity, maybe. Egypt couldn't organize a beer party at a frat house. I should have been dead in 3 turns. I lasted until 1896. They attacked with 3 cats and an elephant. Units trickled in until somehow they finally put together some real stacks with modern units.

I'm hoping for better results in the next xOTM.

 

[kcd_swede]

Wow. KCD Sweede. I am surprised by this stunning defeat. Thought for sure when I started reading your post you were well on your way to some domination victory. This is quite the surprise

I congratulate you on your effort, and your determination to get out of the desert - as opposed to my wimpy effort of hiding there and attempting to wow the world with my artistic cultural merit. I too was frightened of the agressive AI's.

My result later. Still at work.

Thanks. I was also suprised. I actually tried to scout with a spy, but he got caught on his first turn in Egypt. Note to self: be wery cautious about invading a stronger civ without good intel.

Maybe my biggest mistake was maybe not prioritizing gunpowder. I usually think of muskets as worthless units. I've heard a lot about these Janissaries, though. People say they're good. I've still never built one. Probably all they would have done for me is prolong Justinians conquest.

Now... if any of my diplo >+14 friends could have been enticed to join my wars, I think I could have won this one, actually. So it was the Aggressive AI setting that was the nail in the coffin for me.

This was a tough game.

 

[mtt9999]

Well - as it goes I am the first person to post on this thread as a victor!

To quickly continue off of my first spoiler: The choice was to go for an immediate build of the Great Wall. Builds: Worker > Great Wall By the time the GW was built, there was hardly room to create an empire - thus I settled three more cities and went for a cultural victory - odd with a game with raging barbs and aggressive AIs One north on the flood plains, one south on the flood plains, and one to the NW for a little more science. This last city proved to be my savior in an odd way:

The game was divided into two factions: the Buddhists, and the jews. I was a buddhist. My military science was way behind everyone else, and I was second to last in score (probably as a result of my low population and science.) Any militay attack would more than likely have killed me. And in 1500AD Zara (jew) suprised attacked me (and i am pretty sure he was pleased with me??) didn't know that was possible.

He quickly took Bursa, my 'extra' city to the NW. And marched roughly 35 total troops of knights, cats, etc towards my capital!!

2 tiles away from my capital the AP voted whether or not to stop the war (thank god for the buddhists!!) - forgive the pun 1 tile away and the war was stopped in a peacekeeping effort!! Hurray - I may live to see another day. Essentially my 'extra' city served as a buffer against any surprise attacks from the west (where most of the jews were). Lesson: When going for a cultural victory dont rule out building more cities that needed - they may help you in more ways than one!

One more event: in 1910 Zara attacked my defensive pact partner MM... I'm drawn into an unneeded and unwanted war... I held off for a while, and in 1934 the powerhouse Justinian DoW on Zara... destroying all his troops wandering around. In 1958 the world declared peace and Justinian has moved from second to first in score. Lesson: Be careful who you sign defensive pacts with - I made the mistake of signing 3 concurrent pacts in an effort for deterance... the problem - if any of these are attacked you are sucked into an unwanted war. Signing a DP with only the most powerful top nation is needed as a deterent... be careful

In 1977 Cultural victory is mine!! While all my step-brothers were fighting amongst each other for dominance, constantly fighting each other, I showed that peace and patience can be even more powerful

Best move: altough relatvely simple - converting to buddhism instead of conf. which I founded.

Although this is a reatively slow victory - it was only a 3-city cultural victory (and unlike BOTM 17) there WAS regulations on required number of temples, etc before building cathedrals... Im ok with the date

Did anybody else manage to score a cultural victory?

 

[mtt9999]

One more thing. Screenshot 5 turns before victory of my three cities on the river... look at the world map on the bottom right (that was the extent of the world I knew the entire game)

 

[kowalski37]

I totally sucked at this game. I managed to build 6 or 7 cities and the Great Wall, but my economy was really poor and I couldn't keep up in technology. Conquered in 1710AD.

I put a lot of effort into building the Great Wall, but it was only useful for a few turns until the AI expanded enough to cover the whole map. If I was to replay this, I wouldn't bother with the GW, but use the production to build units which would then have the added bonus of gaining experience from defeating the barbs.

I'm submitting my defeat out of interest just to see how badly I did - expect me very near the bottom...

 

[Trystero]

Well, this was first attempt at a xOTM, but not a very good one.

After having 2 cities at 1 AD, I managed to found two more before running out of room to my encroaching neighbors. Unfortunately, neither of these cities had much potential (1 couldn't grow past size 4). I aligned myself with my most powerful neighbor, Ramesses, who founded Christianity and built the AP. Unfortunately, we were the only two Christians on the map. I used espionage to steal techs from Mansa and Zara, but I was rapidly falling behind, and soon found myself at the bottom of the scoreboard.

I beelined Gunpowder for Jannisaries and decided to gamble on grabbing one of Mansa's cities. That went rather well. I used a spy for city revolt, took it with a stack of 8 Jannisaries, and then sued for peace. Unfortunately, the former Mansa city wasn't much better than the two desert cities I had founded. In hindsight, I really should have paused to build up infrastructure and make better use of espionage to improve my position. Unfortunately, I got frustrated and started playing stupidly Such as trying to fight my way to a better position...

I tried taking another of Mansa's cities with Janissaries, but the spy I had parked in that city was caught the turn after I declared war. I had Jannisaries, Mansa had Cannons, Grenadiers, and Cavalry. I held him off for a while, but then a random event caused a diplo plenty with Zara (who was the score leader) and he caught one of my spies and declared war. I lost 4 cities, including Istanbul to Zara. Ramesses (who did poorly himself in a war against Saladin) used the AP to stop the fighting, but I had had enough and resigned in 1800.

This was not a very good start to my xOTM play.

 

[RD-BH]

Yepper, I died having only built a single worker ... definitely not my style of game.

 

[pnp_dredd]

Just completed a tense Cultural victory in 1862AD.

I think it was more luck than skill - the diplomatic situation once I switched off research was never going to go well. I kept refusing to go to war. Luckily Gilly (Confucian with Darius) and Justinian/Saladin (Buddhist with Mansa and Zara) declared on each other first leaving Hammy, Ramses and me (Jewish) on the sidelines. At one stage Justinian had Vassalised Saladin and I was highly worried about the Buddhist bloc. I would have been Buddhist early but it never spread to any of my cities. Hammy built the Jewish AP later on which was a nice hammer boost.

I squeezed in 6 cities. Three legendary cities on the river. Had similar sites to mtt9999, with the middle city a GP farm. Just missed a nice spot to the North early on, which had a huge negative impact. Also I completely forgot to get a GS for Academy. unforgivably stoopid. Also I built the Parthenon but not Sistine, which may have been a mistake, not sure. Also I didn't have Marble so the Jewish/Hindu buildings took forever. I didn't really utlise the unique unit, but I did build around ten for security once they were available.

Bombed 1/8/8 with final multipliers of +300%/+200%/+250% (including civics). The minor city locations were hammertowns: To the W of the capital near cows and the NE of the capital with cows/iron, with another built to the SW later on to try to attract Buddhism.

Start: Settled on plains hill 2N. Teched Mining->BW->Pottery->Writing. Built something like worker -> warrior -> granary then leant hard on the whip for warrior/axeman/settler production (no barracks). To maximise production the worker built farms around the capital early and converted these to cottages later on. Didn't hook up the gold for ages.

Kinda feel that I rode my luck through this game, but I'll take it!

 

[mtt9999]

Just completed a tense Cultural victory in 1862AD.

I squeezed in 6 cities. Three legendary cities on the river. Had similar sites to mtt9999, with the middle city a GP farm.

Yeh. I guess going with only 3 cities was ultimately a bad choice on my part... could only built 1 cathedral of each religion, and no Oxford University... made things quite difficult. Good job on the victory

Thought for a while there that i might have managed to squeeze in the fastest cultural victory given that it looks like not too many people won... but maybe i will just have to settle for the yellow shield again

 

[Orry]

I didn't have a very good game, only ever had 3 cities, including one way over next to the ethiopians, which I eventually had to concede to them after a war. I tried to get involved with some dogpiles but it never quite worked, I did handle the diplomatic situation slightly better than usual this term, being friendly with the two biggest civs for most of the game, unfortunately with nothing to bribe them with this didn't help much.

 

[civ_steve]

1440 AD Conquest defeat, and I really wasn't very competitive.

A couple of fun events. I had 8 turns to go until Gunpowder (around 1000 AD), when Justinian declares. I had played a typical low-unit-count game for me, and his stacks looked pretty impressive. I start pop-rushing. He captures Edirne, my 2nd city 2 moves S of the Gold, which give me just enough time to finish learning Gunpowder. I had moved all but 1 unit out of Istanbul to the Gold giving me the option to recapture Edirne or attack his stack of battle damaged units; he chose to move everyone with movement left into Edirne, giving me a chance to destroy his Cats, which I did. This in turn got me a GG, which I saved to give my first Janissary all 3 city defense promotions (1 turn before the assault on Istanbul). That turned the tide and Istanbul held. A Janissary from Ankara, my 3rd city down South next to the Southern Copper was able to recapture Edirne during a city revolt. The AP caused a vote to stop the war, and Justinian had to go home with nothing.

2nd fun event was slightly later at war with Ramses. His first attempt to capture Ankara resulted in his entire stack disappearing as the Janissaries held. He had maybe 2 WE and a Mace, and while it was fun, it gave me too much confidence in the Janissary defenders.

Ramses rebuilt much faster than I did, and his next stack was much bigger with several WE's and several Maces. Ankara fell fairly easily, and a 4th city on the river between Ankara and Edirne even easier. I was putting my defense in Edirne when Justinian declares for round 2. Pop one more Janissary in Edirne and gift Edirne to Gilgamesh; all defenders to Istanbul and sign peace with Ramses. Build Walls and Castle, but not nearly enough against Justinian's Cataphracts.

I liked the challenge of this game, and think I'll go back and re-play the game building the GW for a change, and focus on getting Gunpowder faster.

 

[jesusin]

jesusin, contender. Goal: fastest domination with an eye on the gold medal. Result: Conquest victory in IWT AD for IWT points.


Lots of info in that previous single sentence, let's analyze it:

- Gold medal:
Is it sensible to fight for the gold medal by trying a fastest finish, without any delaying victory for milking? Probably not. Speed made me accept vassalization when I was about to take big cities, for the sake of keeping my units healthy for the next opponent.

- IWT == I won't tell.
I'm a bit embarrased by my puny result. It's not that I played too bad in the end, it's just that bad start I described in the first spoiler. In particular, not realising that the CS was possible made the AIs get to longbows before I had killed them.

- Conquest? Wasn't it supposed to be domination?
Well, yes. It's not my fault, those AI kept on capitulating too soon, after only 2 cities taken. I was aiming for the fastest military victory that gave me a lot of points. I accepted vassals as soon as I could. I ended the game with 58% of the land and all AIs vassalized. I could have easily setled half a dozen new cities and used my GA in a culture bomb thus delaying my last GAge 1 turn. I didn't do it cause I wanted to maximize my power in order to get their capitulations sooner.





Talking about vassals, I've felt some things that don't match with general knowledge:

- I thought that only 'relative power' and 'caused pain' mattered, appart from 'AI natural willingness'. Was I right?
- 'Caused pain' doesn't seem to be a factor, I had AIs vassalizaing after losing 3 units and a single city.
- Is vassalizing a snowball effect? If the power of all enemies is considered, then having your first vassal makes it more likely for the second AI to capitulate.
- Does 'sense of danger matter'? I had too many instances when, without killing any unit, they were not ready to capitulate the previous turn and were now ready, now that I have 12 units next to their capital or two stacks next to two of their big cities.
- Would I have won sooner if I had dowed the last AI when my units were 3 turns away from their borders? Fight would have happened the same turn, they would have had time for preparing some more units, but by the time the first cities fell, the 'we won't talk' counter would have expired and then they would have considered the posibility of capitulating 3 turns sooner.



Well, let's describe the rest of the game.

- At 1AD I was amassing Cats and Axes.
- Justy war was slow, while I was fighting barbs and trying to research CS.
- The turn Musa got Feudalism, I traded for it and Justy vassalized.
- I led the survivors to Hammy, while building a second stack of maces and cats for Gilga (maces are not afraid of protective archers). This phase took me far too long, even though I was constantly whipping.
- Fought both of the at the same time, while researching up to Guilds. Hammy was disappointing: he surrendered after just 1 city taken, why did I spend so much time positioning the survivors?
- Guilds in, research at 0% allows me to accumulate 0 gold per turn. Build knights, build them fast.
- East stack moves S to Saladin, very slow advance. West stack attacks Darius, new knights stack helps there too.
- It's 1000AD!!! I'm late.
- Build NE and HE, which allows 1 knight a turn from my second city.
- Zara after Darius, he has WEs and longbows. He doesn't know how to use the former. Ramses after Sala, a couple of cities are sending some knights to the East stack.
- Launch GAge, research banking, revolt to Merc.
- 33% land, 35 knights.
- They are capitulating as soon as they are ready to talk.
- When Musa is ready to capitulate too, I take 3 of his cities before agreeing. Was this a risky move because he could have traversed the 'too much pain' threshold and could have changed his mind about vassalizing?




Stats.

Date     .         .         .         	1000BC	1AD	1000AD

Cities   .         .         .         	3	5	11
Population         .         .         	6	20	73
Workers  .         .         .         	3	6	12
x/x Units (best, all others) .         	5/9	2/14	9/48
Best Unit Type     .         .         	Axe	Cat	Knight
			
Horses   .         .         .         	_	_	X
Copper   .         .         .         	X	X	X
Iron     .         .         .         	_	_	X
Stone    .         .         .         	_	_	_
Marble   .         .         .         	_	_	X
Luxury Resources   .         .         	1	2	6
Health Resources   .         .         	1	2	8
# Great Persons    .         .         	0	1	1
# World Wonders    .         .         	0	0	0
# National Wonders .         .         	0	0	0
			
Food     .         .         .         	23	64	203
Production         .         .         	5	26	88
Commerce .         .         .         	33	87	23
# Sustainable Beakers per turn         	23	46	0 (I promise)
# Culture per Turn .         .         	3	17	31
# Great Person Points per turn         	0	0	12
Gold     .         .         .         	43	16	340
# Religions        .         .         	0	1	3
#/ Cottages Used/Total       .         	2/4	7/9	13/17
# Civs Killed      .         .         	0	0	2vassals
Time Played        .         .         	7h	8h	16h
			
Academy Date       .         .         	550BC		
Alphabet Date      .         .         	1360BC		
Civil Service Date .         .         	400AD		
Liberalism Date    .         .         	_		
Oxford Date        .         .         	_		
Astronomy Date     .         .         	_		
Biology Date       .         .         	_		
			
Victory Type & Date.         .         	Conquest, IWT

Buildings 1000BC: Granary, Monu.
Techs 1000BC: 11, Alpha, Poly,Mason, BW, AH, Pott
Techs 1AD: 25, Alpha, IW, Theo, CoL, Constr, Curr, Monar
Techs 1000AD: 34, CS, Constr, Guilds, Lite, Theo.





Very satisfying game, the start was truly difficult. I never saw a Jannisary. It took a lot of real-live time, military victories always do, had I known that aggresive AI setting didn't affect relations I could have gone for a cultural victory instead, sigh! Engineering would have been very important, allowing 3 road moves for my stacks. In fact, my stacks never fought too much, they just moved from an enemy to another to threaten them. It reminds me of the Jericho walls story.

 

[jesusin]

Thanks. I was also suprised. I actually tried to scout with a spy, but he got caught on his first turn in Egypt. Note to self: be wery cautious about invading a stronger civ without good intel.

Maybe my biggest mistake was maybe not prioritizing gunpowder.

I forgot to mention, but I always forced me to spare a unit to have a promenade inside the borders of the second next enemy. Exploring is trully important.

Gunpowder? What for? A knight is as strong and as expensive as a Jannisary. With the difference it moves twice as fast. In a heavy land map like this, you need that speed.
The second difference is that knights are earlier in the tech tree. Would you fight Archers with Knights or Longbows with Jannisaries?