BOTM 18 First Spoiler - 1 AD

[Welnic]

Might that be because this is a Monarch game?

Not if he's playing the Challenger save.

 

[ZPV]

My biggest mistake has been whipping too much. I realised there were no hammers in the initial screenshot, so whipping heavily was needed. Now, once you discover copper and you have a 0food 5 hammers tile available, should you work it or not?
At the time I didn't even stop to think about it. I've read quite a lot about whipping since then and now I realise I should have been working that tile non stop.
What about the gold? I have yet to work it! But 8 commerce is better than 3 hammers, isn't it? So I should have been working gold and copper tiles non stop! Then, only whip food excess without never abandonning those two tiles.
I would have got a lot more hammers that way.
Also I didn't farm my first FP. If you are whipping all out, why wouldn't you want to regrow asap? I never worked too many cottages at the same time.

I'm surprised. You favour a 0-food tile.
I don't think it's as clear cut as you make out. Sure, you can get a better food/hammer ratio with the desert copper hill under normal circumstances, but it just doesn't allow the massive number of hammers in a short space of time that whipping gives. (e.g. 6+ axes in 10 turns).

There is also the idea that working a farmed flood plain is worth more than 4 food in this game. As well as the immediate food in the food bar, it brings the next citizen more quickly, letting it work another 4f tile a turn earlier, etc. I haven't calculated this in detail, but I'd be surprised if it's optimal to work the copper constantly.

By the way, was this really aggresive AI? I had many of my neighbours Pleased at +1!!!

Unlike Vanilla and Warlords, in BtS, there is no diplomatic penalty for Aggressive AI.

 

[jesusin]

With the low health cap the farmed FP are worth less than 4fpt.

Unlike Vanilla and Warlords, in BtS, there is no diplomatic penalty for Aggressive AI.

Yikes! I though that was the only thing affected by this setting. What does it change, then?

 

[ZPV]

I settled 1NW of the start for the same reason as LowtherCastle. I am surprised that very few people settled there, looks much stronger to me then any other site that can be settled on turn 0, because of 1 less unhealthiness. The only disadvantage is loosing coins from working the oasis while building the worker, but loosing food at size 2 is much worse then that.

With hindsight, 1NW looks like the best place to settle.
In my case, I just assumed all sites would be equally unhealthy.

Next goal is axe-rushing a neighbour to get some green land. I considered pumping out the axes with just the capital, but calculated that an extra production city will pay off before I have enough axes, so I founded a 3rd city in the west (grab the plains cow and share copper with the capital). Then both the capital and the 3rd city build granaries, barracks, axes.

This sounds like a really good move.
Did this allow you to MM the cities so that you could work the copper constantly while still putting less than 5 hammers into the start of each Axeman (for poprushing)?

I explored a bit with the GSpy, Gilgamesh had 3 silver hills and furs, nice. I chose him as the attack target even though he is creative and protective.

How did you find his Vultures? They scare me almost as much as CG3 Archers + Dog Soldiers.
Or were you early enough that he didn't build many before you disconnected his copper?

I wonder if it is possible to pull off a CS-slingshot in this game. The oracle was built around 700BC in my game, quite late for emperor. I guess the AI are less inclined to build wonders because of the barbs and/or agressive AI setting. With gold and marble it could be doable.

I think it should be possible - although you may have to forgo GW. I think you can even ignore marble to save the beakers spent on Masonry, building the Oracle with whip overflow from Axemen.

 

[ZPV]

With the low health cap the farmed FP are worth less than 4fpt.



Yikes! I though that was the only thing affected by this setting. What does it change, then?

Hmm.. not sure about the FPs. I'll get back to you on that one.

Aggressive AI makes the AI build more units, and is more likely to go to war. There might be a couple of other minor changes like tech priority and unit courage, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Obormot]

This sounds like a really good move.
Did this allow you to MM the cities so that you could work the copper constantly while still putting less than 5 hammers into the start of each Axeman (for poprushing)?

Yes, that was my idea: work copper & gold non-stop while still rushing axes for 2 pop every 10 turns.

How did you find his Vultures? They scare me almost as much as CG3 Archers + Dog Soldiers.
Or were you early enough that he didn't build many before you disconnected his copper?

Vultures are not a big problem. Modified strength of a vulture defending against an axe in a 40% culture city is 6 + 40%(culture) + 25% (fortify) + 25% (bonus against melee units) - 50% (axe bonus to melee units) - 20% (CR promotion) = 7.2. A normal axe will have a modified strength of 5 + 40% +25% +50% - 50% - 20% = 7.5 under the same circumstances. Vultures become (slightly) stronger then normal axes in 60% culture cities, in hill cities or when they are promoted with shock, etc. The difference is not that great. Vultures are great against archers, but not against axes.

 

[Conquistador 63]

Contender save. First of all, kudos to Niklas for yet another superb theme-based XOTM! By 1AD I hadn't met Zara yet but was able to figure out he'd be in the game, since all other civs were from Middle-East/Sahara region.

Not sure if I underestimated this game's difficulty or if I was just too lazy, but as I was already 2 weeks late, I jumped into it without adequate preparation. Was that the reason for my abysmal performance?

I settled 2N, not noticing the severe health penalty, but at least got wheat, copper and gold in BFC. I went Mining/BW/AH(just in case)/Pottery/Wri/Alpha(1480BC)/Sailing(for easy trade routes)/Math/CoL and 11 turns away from CS at 1AD. All other basic stuff up to IW/Mono/Monarchy came from trade. Tech trade was relatively easy, since nobody was annoyed to me, as I didn't steal anyone's worker (as I should've done).

While tech rate wasn't main issue, expansion was. At 1000BC I founded city2 near cows/marble, and city3 was founded 50BC to the west, as Justinian had expanded like crazy by then. Not sure if I'll be able to pull out a win from this one.

I will put the Herioc Epic in Istanbul, so with Bureaucracy, I will be able to use the 2pop-whip trick on Janissaries.

Care to share? A Janissary costs 80h. With Bureau and HE, one pop whip would get 75h, provided there is at least 1h invested. So to be able to whip 2 pop (150h, with a lot of overflow to next janissary), you need to have 4h or less in the basket. Is that the idea?

 

[ZPV]

Care to share? A Janissary costs 80h. With Bureau and HE, one pop whip would get 75h, provided there is at least 1h invested. So to be able to whip 2 pop (150h, with a lot of overflow to next janissary), you need to have 4h or less in the basket. Is that the idea?

Yes, exactly. It requires being able to work 1 base hammer per turn on the first turn (2h after modifiers), then whip for 2pop and work the gold for 2t, giving 2 janissaries and no overflow in 3 turns, to be repeated as long as you have the population.

 

[RobertTheBruce]

I didn't think about the health problems and founded on the hill two north.

Gilgamesh founded a city near my planned site for a second city to grab the cows. I spot his workers mining his copper and steal them. I then try for an axe rush rather than building a settler. My axe rush was one axe short of taking his city. I'm now boxed in by Gilgamesh and Justinian with one health limited city in 1000BC. Oh, my defensive units died and the barbs pillaged my copper and gold while my army was rushing north. I surrender.

 

[mboza]

Moved the warrior onto the hill, for better scouting, and found the corn. So settled 1W for the corn, 2 oasis, and the mysterious plains square, started a worker, and went straight for BW, then pottery->writing->alpha.

First warrior circled NW->NE, discovering AH, and getting killed by a bear. An axe exploring E popped metal casting from a hut.

Built Edirne in 1800 on the jungle to the north. Axe defending it was killed by an archer, and it was razed in 1040. A turn later a second archer killed the axe defending the gold mine (another >95% combat), and I need to whip a defender out of Istanbul, then send a settler back to refound it.

GW built by Egypt in 850BC. I missed the Oracle for a hut enabled MC sling.

By 1AD I am stuck on two cities, have just been beaten to the strangely tempting plains hill to the NW for a third, and am getting boxd in by barb cities in poor locations. Does not look good.

 

[Skurn]

Contender save - goal : conquest or domination

Like many people, I settled on the hill 2N of starting position; I should have payed more attention to the health issue. To make things worse, I didn't notice the desert corn for a long time because I didn't turn ressource bubbles on..

Tech path : the usual mining > BW

My warrior went SW (met Mansa) then east (met Ramses). I stole a worker from Ramses in 3120 BC. The worker made it back home but the warrior died to a lion. I signed peace with Ramses 500 years later.

First build was a worker who farmed a FP, then mined gold, farmed another FP and roaded/mined copper (with the help of the stolen worker).

My next warrior went north, and met Giggles (arrrghhhh!) and Justinian. He poped hostile barbs next to Justi and died the following turn.

With copper connected and plenty of barbs, I went into OCC mode, planning to get many lvl 3 axes and hit Justi who was rexing like crazy. I admit I was a bit afraid of Giggles.

My tech path was, well, a bit mistaken. After BW I researched pottery but didn't build the granary for a long time (remember, I didn't notice the corn..) then writing (2520BC) and Alphabet (1480BC).
I got IW, fishing, AH, myst, meditation, hunting and archery from trade.
Next I researched Math (850BC) and currency (300BC). At that point I should have gone for construction but chose COL, when I didn't plan to build courthouses anyway.. Well..

I cound't afford a library and specialists at that point, since I was building units non-stop. I whipped a barracks first, then about 10 axes who went to kill barbs to get to 5 xp. I later positionned a guerilla archer on the gold and the copper, and headed my axe stack NE toward Justinian.

I dowed him in 550BC, took Nicae in 500BC and Constantinople in 350BC. Justinian had like 9 or 10 cities when I dowed him, while the other AI had 5-6. His cities where lightly defended, usually with 2 archers. The hill cities where still a problem though.

In 1AD, I had a mixed army of axes and swords, most of them CR2 and I was pushing eastward to take his costal city with 2 wheat and seafood. Then I want to take his western coastal city near Giggles to close the western front.
Constantinople will make a nice military city with the cows and the hills. I havn't built a cottage yet so I will depend on the specialists for the science. I should have enough food for that.
BTW, I got the herbalist event too, which is nice. Health shouldn't be an issue in the middle game, and HR should help with happiness.

I didn't choose a religion, because Justi founded and was the only buddhist, Gilga oracled COL and converted to confu, Saladin and Ramses are hindu, Hammy and MM are jude. I'd like to buddy with Hammy but I don't want Gilga on my throat right now. Saladin isn't close so shouldn't dow me for some time.

Well, this game is still winnable even if I have only 3 cities. I should be able to take on the byzantine territory. I did a few mistakes like not seeing the corn (duh!) and maybe not assigning specialists early. Getting construction before 1AD would have been a good thing too.

Gilga is way ahead in tech, he will be the biggest threat I think. If I can organize a dogpile on him when I get janissaries, that should work though. I have little use of bureaucracy right now, so I will go into vassalage when I can.

 

[OmgItsSpam]

Hmmm so...I actually forgot that this first spoiler was for 1AD and didn't stop until 275 AD but not much has gone on for me since then so I'll just summarize up to this point...

Techs I went: Mining - Bronze Working - FREE MASONRY FROM HUT - Pottery - Writing - Alphabet - Math (prolly past 1AD) - and now finishing Construction

I'm managing to stay basically tied for the tech lead though because of espionage (I infiltrated Gilgamesh with the first spy) ^_^
However, I'm going the wrong way down the tree from what i have planned...I've stolen Code of Laws (Yay more espionage), Monarchy, and Feudalism (don't remember which ones were post 1AD)
Now I have to hurry up and steal Metal Casting from Ramses get Machinery, Guilds, and Funpowder(lol I typoed but that works too) and get cracking with Janissaries
Considering I have catapults soon too I should be in good position to expand through conquest soon

...and I really need it too since I only had one other city by 1 AD (two now)
I also have no army right now...one warrior and that's it
I am starting to put out some units now though so i should be fine...

Build order went: Worker - Warrior - Great Wall (1560) - Settler (2nd City 500BC) - Worker (First one died due to barbs before I got GW cause of a stupid mistake >.<) - Spy - Spy

So overall I think I'm doing well and my espionage economy is kicking butt

As for victory condition...I'm not sure yet...we'll see how I am when i get Janissaries

Edit: I settled 1W...no complaints there....no health problems either

 

[Gosha190]

contender save (seems I should play adventure... This map looks more difficult than last immortal )

goal? hmmmmm... there was no any aim and I played up to 500AD in a very simple manner: click by click as fast as possible I spent less 1 hour to play that part of my game.

There was enough bad RNG in my early battles. I lost my 1-st warrior early, my axeman (fortified on a hill) was killed by unpromoted barb warrior! Finally I lost 1 warrior, 2 axes and my worker was stolen by barbarians

1AD stats
3 cities (9+5+4=18), 4 workers (1 lost), 4 warriors (1 lost), 4 axes (2 lost).

Capital found in 3800BC near Guilgamesh capital. Second city(marble+cow) - 1360BC, 3-d city(north to the gold) - 975BC.

GLib - 300BC, Academy - around 1400BC.

Research: mine-BW-Anim-Wrt-Alpha(1400BC)-Math-CoL-CS(750BC from Oracle)- Aest-Liter(425BC)-Currency-MC(175BC)...

Spoiler :

 

[BakeliteRules]

Late to start this event. Results similar to most. Settled on Copper and successfully kept Barbs from pillaging anything- but not able to grow fast enough as all the settler spamming AI were one step ahead of me. 1AD 3 cities, low man on the totem pole (score), and looking for someone to get angry with as I don't think the clostrophobic squeeze I am in can last much longer.

 

[Ribannah]

CHALLENGER

Settled Istanbul 1 west which is one more unhealthiness than 1 nw, but offers better medium- and long-term perspectives. Started on a Worker and sent the Warrior north to discover greener pastures, and built a settler at size 2 when he did. We founded Edirne at silver, copper and floodplains in the north just before Gilgamesh could claim the spot. To these two core cities we added two helper cities: Ankara in 1520bc between the two on the river (floodpains, specializing in workers) and Bursa in 550bc to claim the iron east.

Huts brought us Scouts, that popped more huts, which gave us maps and experience...

No free techs, therefore, but we have most of the world mapped, and one surviving Scout is a medic.

Didn't want to contaminate the Great Persons so instead of building the Great Wall we defended with axes against the barbarians; they all quickly grew to level 10. When Justinian claimed the marble and cow northeast, we built some swordsmen and declared. Nicae was quickly taken in 275bc, and we grabbed Antioch on the coast for good measure as well. That was the end of our swords, so we agreed to peace.

In 1 AD, a Settler is on its way to the far west to found our future Forbidden Palace city on the other river. Civil Service is 7 turns away, and Istanbul is building the Temple of Artemis. Gilgamesh is hoarding Great Wonders, he'll be our primary target when maces come online.

Technology
3720bc Mining
3160bc Bronze Working
2760bc Pottery
2200bc Writing
950bc Alphabet; Masonry, Hunting, Mysticism, Fisihing, Animal Husbandry (trade)
925bc Priesthood, Iron Working (trade)
875bc Monarchy, Monotheism, Meditation (trade)
800bc Sailing (trade)
650bc Code of Laws --> Confucianism (Edirne)
275bc Currency
100bc Mathematics
1ad Metal Casting (trade)

		1000BC		1AD
cities		3		6
population	11		30
settlers	-		1
workers		3		6
scouts		2		1
warriors	3		2
archers		-		6
axemen		3		3
strategic	copper		copper(2), iron, marble
luxuries	gold		gold, silver
health		corn		corn(2), cow, clam
great persons	GS(academy)	GS(academy), GG(instructor)
wonders		-		-
food		39		80
production	10		41
commerce	58		122
sust. beakers	30		45
gpp per turn	-		-
gold		148		214
cottages	-		-
civs killed	-		-

academy		1000BC
alphabet 	950BC
confucianism	675BC