[BTS] BOTM 257: Hatshepsut, Deity - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

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BOTM 257: Hatshepsut, Deity - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted



Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, particularly anything after 1AD

Did you win?

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Well, that was quite a long game! Domination victory in 1800 AD.

Alexander attacked me in early AD with a smal stack just when I started whipping cuirs, so I had to handle that first. Hannibal was plotting too; he was part of the Judiasm block, together with Alexander and Cyrus, and I was constantly afraid they would all jump on me. As Cyrus was not plotting (yet), I decided to try to wage short wars against Alexander and Hannibal, taking 10-turn peace treaties as protection while attacking the other, and hoping to get some cities and techs each time.

This worked out, but it took ages, and lots of casualties. Was about to rage-suicide my stack against their cities at least 2 times, but somehow got some lucky rolls. After several such short wars I had reduced Hannibal and Alex to only a few cities, so they were under control, although my empire now consisted of 2 separate areas. Persia attacked me at some point, and he could have taken my core cities if the AI hadn't made such silly military decisions, like sending a stack of 8 siege units protected by a single elephant or so.

I always play with diplomatic victory condition disabled, so I'm unfamiliar with this AP and UN stuff. Had to defy like 4 or 5 AP resolutions... I took the AP capital at some point, but I think I should have razed it... Eventually I conquered so many cities I had most votes anyway.

Mayas were going for cultural, but when he had like 50 turns left for his 3rd city he decided to attack Hammurabi, so Hammurabi solved that problem for me.

I ended with a tank war against Boudica, and took out the last Greek city to get over the land area limit. I left Pacal and Hammurabi alone, the rest was conquered.

stats:
Spoiler :

hats_stats0000.JPG



Things I learned:
I had actually hoped to get more techs from peace deals, but Hannibal refused to give me a single tech even when he has a single wounded unit in his last city. Because I thought I could get communism cheap this way (I later tried it with Alex as well), I think I postponed state property way too long...

Also I realized too late that cavs work pretty well against inf. I stopped my wars after some 1300 years, in order to build factories/power plants and get inf, but waging wars with 1-movers is horrible...

And I learned airships can be quite useful to weaken the top defenders.
 
Shortly after 1AD I made a start producing future Cuirs in the form of Elephants. Right there Hammurabi DoWs me over a refused demand, He is just as unprepared as me, so gladly I could easily stop him off and get 10XP units in the process for HEpic. So this ended up being useful at least a little bit.

With the help of a golden age + bulb in Edu and Lib I reach Cuirs around 500AD. With the help of 2 GM trade missions I upgrade most of my WE and join the war against Cyrus that Boudica started (again) a couple of turns earlier. Thanks to Boudica his main stack that was in a city north of me left to the west and let me take 5 border cities and sign peace without a big fight.
Meanwhile Alex had started a war against Hammi and Hannibal joined in. No one seemed to have a big stack when I checked the contested area, so I chose to side with Buddhist buddy Hammi and attack Hannibal. Rolled up his city garrisons with ease and eliminated the most advanced opponent early this way. Next I wanted to do a short break to reach Communism/State property, but Hammi asked me to DoW the Greeks and I did. Like Hannibal, Alex had no standing army either, so the process repeated and with conquest gold I could finance my tech advance too.

Unfortunately In the west peace allowed Cyrus to come back at me for revanche and DoWed while I still had some last cities to conquer in the northeast. My tech break had ended though so it was no trouble building a fresh army in the homeland. He was slow with the conquest of a former Carthage and Persian city and then split his main stack of grenadiers/knights, which made things a lot easier for me. Another golden age helped me reach Rifling and now Persia got trampled with Cavalry.
All this time Boudica was plotting again (what else is new) but never helped me, and then DoWed me the turn I eliminated Cyrus. She made the mistake to send her stack south into my border where a healthy army was waiting already, while my northern army could heal properly. Then, before I could invade she got rifles. That meant substantial losses over each city I took. After each city taken, I hoped she would talk peace, but no it just went on and on. When the 2nd last siege turned in a massacre on my side, I left her with 1 city and let the war status for what it was (and kept severe war wariness). Finally I could hurry my army to Hammi to remove the culture blob that was downsizing 6 of my cities severely and make place for the dominastion victory. And Pacal? He never came out of his corner.
 
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The main plan for the game was an active war and domination. To do this, I had to capture 4 out of 6 opponents. In the number these 4 necessarily included Cyrus - he was the largest in area, besides, he put from 4 to 6 cities on "my" territory - it was impossible to forgive him for that). Alexander was the furthest, Hannibal with 5 cities did not occupy very much territory, so I decided not to touch them. In addition, Alexander, unlike Boudica, was ready to change technologies. So the "victims" were identified: Hammurabi, Pakal, Cyrus and Boudica. Exactly in that order. Because Hammurabi was the closest and looked like an easier victim than Cyrus, and most importantly, Pakal was striving very quickly into space, it was necessary to have time to kill him before the rifles. Besides , fighting with Cyrus and Boudica can be hit in the rear by Hammurabi at any time.

In 200 ad, I was ready to attack Babylon in 2 groups - silver and corn-wine city at the same time. However, at that moment, Boudica attacked me from the territory of Cyrus. A little more than 20 units (half of gallics, also axes, spears and archers) from the north of the marble city. I decided that elephants, cats and wc are not the best defenders, so I left the city, then attacked myself, killed the entire groupe and returned the city. At the same time, I lost 6 cats and it took me time to restore them, and to increase my entire army. Because in 375 ad, when I attacked Hammurabi, the situation changed a lot. During this time, bowmans turned into Longbows, and into cities have walls. So I built more cats, and I also got maces. Hammurabi did not have Machinery and CoL, but his power was bigger, and it was necessary not to be exposed to his cats, swords and longbows. I killed one of his stack, but when the 2nd stack turned from swords-axes into maces in my sight, I decided that I didn't need a long war with him. Besides, he had a statue of Zeus.

So I captured Babylon without bombing and made peace. Now I had a common border with Pakal, besides Babylon agreed to open borders, simplifying my task. Pakal had castles in all cities with pikes, longbows, muskets and Chichen Itza, but the last power. From the very beginning I sold him horses for gems and silk and he built a whole 1 knight. For the war with him, I made 15 trebuchets and started making knights. Each city had to be bombed 3 times, but in general the capture was going on easy though slow.
After capturing 3 cities, I approached Mutal. By this point I had the 2nd power in the game (1kk) after Cyrus (1.3 kk), Alexander was the 3rd (0.9 kk), the others are much weaker. Cyrus posed some threat, but I had more than 30 knights who could quickly return and I would defend myself in case of anything. His shock army was in 3sugar-gold city all the time and I could see him.
Pakal had 20 units in Mutal, and while I was bombing the city, some of them began to turn into grenadiers. It's good that it's not in rifles. After capturing the Mutal, I decided to speed up the process and not wait until many grenadiers appeared in the remaining 2 cities and jumped into the rear with some knights. Maybe I was wrong. In the end, the problem was solved, but I lost about 15 knights and my power dropped to 800k. At the same time, or rather a little earlier, Cyrus launched the GA (he had a MoM) and in a short period from my technical level went sharply forward. Moreover, he did not teach anything superfluous - only gunpowder, a printing press, replaceable parts and rifting. Immediately, all the units suitable for this turned into riffles, the power became 1.6 kk and that's when I got scared)

I urgently needed to capture 4 of the 5 cities of Babylon, because they put a lot of cultural pressure on my new cities and potentially disrupted communication between egypt and maya land. But if Persia had attacked me at that moment, 20-30 knights wouldn't have been able to do anything. I decided that 50 knights was a bad option, stopped building troops, finished education, stopped science and started building Oxford. In general, for about 15-20 turns, while I was fighting Babylon and learning rifting, I was in great danger. By the way, Pakal had 2/3 of all wonders, 10 in Mutal alone, including ToA. In addition - Colossus, the Great Lighthouse, Mahabodhi, King Miao. Holy cities of judaism, christianity and taoism. And Great Prophets began to be born in Mutal every 5 turns. The first one launch my GA,by the end of which I had to learn rifting and nationalism and solve the security problem.
But a couple of turns before the study of rifting, nationalism appeared in Babylon and he demonstrated his willingness to give it up for peace. Therefore, after rifting, I learned chemistry, again with only knights captured last city of Babylon I needed, and took nationalism by making peace. Babylon has 1 doomed city left. The fact is that 2 turns before, Boudicca and Alexander simultaneously declared war on him and came from 2 sides. I was wondering who will get this city ) Alexander won.
I again had a power of 1kk - Cyrus - 2.1kk. I accepted nationalism + theocracy and began to build an army for the last war. After chemistry, I learned steel, military traditions, stopped science, upgraded trebuchets and knights. And already having equal power with Cyrus, attacked him. Unexpectedly, in response, Alexander declared war on me. For some reason I thought that he would rather attack Cyrus and thought how not to let him capture my future cities). In the end, it turned out very well. 30 cannons riddled the entire stack Cyrus, after which I easily captured the city, and on the next turn I killed Alexander's stack, which was substituted for mine on the plain. I left 10-15 riffles to guard 2 front-line cities from Alexander and went methodically to capture Cyrus cities. Alexander didn't want to talk for a long time. When he finally agreed, I already had a new mini-stack with which I wanted to capture the former city of Hammurabi. That's why I didn't talk to him anymore. I approached the city, bombed it, and before starting to capture it, i decided to see what he was ready to give for peace (before that he was ready to give liberalism). And accidentally made peace without any conditions....

I left 1 city to Cyrus, took 4 techs (liberalism, economics, constitutions, DR.) By the way, just before the war, I took the "rice" city from Cyrus (to the west of me) through the Apostolic Palace, and by the time of the next resolution, I had more than enough votes for a religious victory. But I wanted domination victory and more points and was going to ignore it. But the turn before vote, I accepted free religion and my votes were still not enough )
The last one was Boudica, she also had rifles, her shock stack was in the capital and in addition to rifles there were 20 cats and 10 elephants in it. She had no horses, but before the eyes of my astonished Great Spy, these elephants turned into 10 cavalry. cats are not cannons, but I still didn't want to be exposed to their blow. I had to act carefully. As a result, I managed to attack first, although his stack was in the city and the cats were not flanked. Despite the very unsuccessful random, a 2-fold advantage in quantity it played its part. The cats survived, but besides them there were less than 10 severely wounded units, while I have about 40-50, including those who only came up with full health. in response, 20 cats still attacked me, but only 1 cavalry could support them. So I'm not upset. Then the whole of Celtia was captured in less than 10 turns. While there was no order in the cities, I managed to return and captured the last city of Cyrus from Hannibal's territory in one move. As soon as order came to the cities, I take domination won.
 
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Surprised no one seems to have gone for a Religious AP win. I gave it a go, thought I botched it, then thought I had it locked up...and then failed for reasons I need to do some game testing to figure out.

I used obelisks to get a great prophet which I used to bulb a very early Christianity. Then chopped the AP.

Foolishly (maybe) had a very early war (pre-Christianity) against Hammurabi which blocked me from spreading Christianity everywhere as he of course closed borders. This also cut off access to the Mayas. I also was not able to snag a city from him as I had hoped with Chariots. But I did snag a worker and got an early GG from the war. And I was still able to snag a fair amount of land with settlers. War with Hammurabi may have helped slow their expansion and the worker also helped with some key early chops. So maybe still worth it.

I also traded around theology a bit earlier than I should have. Def helped me trade up though a ton of techs, but several civs quickly swapped to Theology which also prevented me from spreading religion to everyone but Celts and Persians even though I had OB and was fairly friendly with everyone but Hammurabi.

Since I was unable to spread Christianity around , I started gearing up to try to start a 2nd Hammurabi war. I figured with him as a vassal I could then also gift converted cities to the other civs.

Prospects for the war were iffy as I was behind in tech. But then Carthage and Greece swapped to OR so I was able to spread to them. Then the Buddhist block (everyone but me and the Celts who were Hindu) declared war on the Celts. This opened up a few opportunities. The big Babylonian stack Id been eyeing for ages moved out on a trek through Persian lands to hit the Celts. Figured in 10 turns or so they would be too far away to come back to defend if I attacked. But it also meant that if I joined the war against Celts, I could boost relations with the Buddhist block. I went for option 2.

Before declaring war I sent a few more missionaries into Celt land to ensure they would have the 2nd most Christian cities and be my AP competitor. I then was asked to declare war by one of the Buddhists and accepted to boost relations. I then could get OB with Babylon and sent a missionary to Maya. Since Babylon was running Theocracy I built a crap border city, gave it Christianity, and then gifted it. I timed it so this was the turn before an AP election and thought I was golden. Win would have been 1090AD which would have been one of my earlier wins.

But apparently I was not golden. Despite having pretty high net positives with all the Buddhist civs...they all abstained rather than vote for me. I get why Babylon didn't vote for me given past war. But all the other folks were pretty positive. Suspect I might be missing some core mechanics along the lines of folks only vote if they actually have the AP religion.

Anyhow, I rarely try for religious wins. So I am curious if folks have any ideas of what might have helped win this for me.
 
Hey @damnrunner
You can easily track what your situation is.

The current situation can be seen in the victory (red fist) screen under tabpage ''Member''.
On the bottom left you can switch between AP and UN when they are in play. On the bottom right you can switch between resident/general election and victory election.
Then for each of these you can see:
- who is elected/electable
- who gets how many votes
- who votes for whom
- how many votes are required to win
- how many turns till next vote (voting will occur after turn zero)
- how many vote rounds until a new resident/general is elected
Note that the number of votes required changes from turn to turn, generally going up, since this depends on the total population of all (or all AP-religion) cities.
Also your own total votes must stay under the required total votes for the victory election

There are some Civ rules for AI voting behaviour.
- Independant AI need to be on friendly terms, that's +10 or better (after minus points subtracted from the plus points) pleased is not good enough,
- Also you need to have a higher value then your rival. Note that rivals can build a pretty high relation, especially in a religion love fest
- Vassals are an exception, they always vote for the master if he/she is electable, regardless of diplo points.
Note that a contender for AP resident must have the correct state religion (NB: in your game the Celts needed to leave Hindu and become Christian to become your rival, not sure if you thought of that)

Powerful ways to boost relation:
- shared religion
- shared favourite civics (all AI have a certain favourite civic which can be found in the Foreign Advisor Screen tabpage ''Info'')
- gift/liberate city
- shared war
- gift advanced tech
Also look for opportunities to push your rival with bribes away from a beloved share fest. Usually that is harder than boosting your own diplo.
 
I retired around 1420, after I'd finished conquering Hammy and was starting on Pacal. I think Pacal bribed Alexander to attack me, and with Alex's 40+ stack sitting in a Mayan city he'd recently captured, I was toast. I submitted what I had and started over, this time being more aggressive in settling to push out my borders, e.g., taking the western isthmus from Boudica, settling a bit farther north to keep back Cyrus, and grabbing one of the SE silvers before Hammy. Yes, I probably used my knowledge of what it was feasible to grab from the first attempt, but I told myself that my actions were plausible. ;)

Things went better: I had more homegrown cities, was able to wipe out Hammy earlier, and had enough oomph to grab a couple cities from Cyrus while he was busy with another war. I then concentrated on building gold to finance some tech catch-up (well, tech advancement--I never actually caught up to the others) so I could attack Cyrus for real with infantry and artillery and take all his remaining cities. Pacal and Boudica had a defense pact by then and I was wary about fighting on two fronts, but then Hannibal attacked Alex (for the nth time) so I joined in to snipe one city before Hanny's advanced armor, mechinf, etc. rolled over the Greeks. Just before he finished off Alex, Hanny launch his spaceship and I could see there was no way I'd be able to capture enough land from Pacal and Boudica to get a Domination win in time. I had a big army by then, but was still behind everyone in techs---I'd just started building tanks, and Hanny was researching Future Techs. I salute those who got a win on their first attempt! Thanks, DS! I had fun despite losing.
 
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