Brave New World's 9 new Civs

[Larwood]

While Canada, Australia and New Zealand are, geographically and politically, about as splendid as a country can be, I can't really see a niche for them in Civilization. They don't really have a very distinctively individual culture (apart from the cultures of the indigenous inhabitants) and have never had a period of global or, except perhaps Australia, regional dominance. I'm not saying periods of dominance are necessarily a good thing to try to achieve, but it's generally a prerequisite for inclusion in the civ list.

This is an outsider's view from the reviled mother country though...

 

[AbsintheRed]

Civilization poll:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=460009

This is the latest result:

Result update
After 326 votes (+37):

1. Portugal: 162 (+23)
2. Zulu: 149 (+14)
3. Indonesia: 133 (+15)
4. Brazil: 116 (+13)
5. Poland: 114 (+16)
6. Sumer: 113 (+13)
7. Kongo: 102 (+8)
8. Hittites: 100 (+12)

9. Sioux: 94 (+13)
10. Khmer: 80 (+11)
10. Tibet: 80 (+6)
12. Hungary: 77 (+15)
13. Phoenicia: 75 (+12)
14. Assyria: ~73 (+8)
15. Morocco/Moors: 69 (+9)
16. Hebrews: ~68 (+8)

17. Mali: 60 (+11)
18. Armenia: ~58 (+8)
19. Zimbabwe: 55 (+5)
20. Khazars: 52 (+7)
21. Vietnam: ~51 (+5)
22. Nubia: ~50 (+5)
23. Swahili/Kilwa: ~50 (+5)

With at least 3-4 North American Native civs going in this list somewhere between 50-75 votes
Apache, Navajo, Comanche, Mississippian are among the most likely candidates that made it over 50.

 

[otaman1]

Ok ok my bad, but i still wanna see the game more geografcily representative. They pull sweden, why not a caribean nation? Or from Oceania?

Because Sweden played a big role in Europe during the 17th and 18th centuries.

 

[ShahJahanII]

less guns

Definitely not an aspect of American culture.

My list of civs I want (not what I expect):
1) Kongo
2) Majapahit
3) Portugal
4) Another Native American civ
5) Another African civ
6) Belgium
7) Another African civ

I don't care too much for exactly which civs they pick for spots 4, 5, and 7. I trust they will go with the most important and interesting ones.

 

[fuzzatron717]

I know the Vatican is already a city-state but maybe we should add the papal state

Moderator Action: Removed inappropriate content, please be more respectful.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Yubnub]

Regardless of my opinions on whether or not Mexico should be a civ, whether or not it will be a civ is a totally different question. I think the devs are unlikely to include civilizations that modern and probably feel it is being "covered" by the Aztecs.

I feel that any modern Latin American country has a fair chance of making it in. The problem in the Americas has been the lack of knowledge regarding ancient civilizations/peoples in that region (relatively speaking). There is still a large expanse of land that is not represented by current civs in those regions. If the devs were to cover that region they would have to choose either esoteric pre-Columbian cultures or more modern countries. Given that criteria, I think a more household name such as Mexico or Brazil has a better chance of making it in than say the Olmec or Cambeba if the devs felt the need to cover that region. (For the record, I would be happy with the inclusion of any Latin American civ and have no strong feelings towards any in particular).

 

[aluelkdf]

Has it maybe occurred to the people demanding Native American civs that maybe those civs aren't exactly what most people would describe as awe-inspiring?
Maybe they are so under represented because they pale compared to Europe, Asia or Africa?

Spoiler :

Native North American:


Asian and European architecture:





They don't exactly shine compared to other civilizations.

Maybe they are the people you fight in camps?
Points could be made that cultures like Goth, Vandals, Timurids, Moors and other barbarians are equally or more deserving the North American Natives.

I love how you use photos to illustrate your point. You say that North American civs are not "awe inspiring". Yet people demand a Zulu civ, and there seems to be no dilemma about that.

Spoiler :

How is this (Native North American):



Any less awe inspiring than this? (Zulu):

If Zulu is worthy of being in the game then Native American civs are certainly worthy.

 

[seasnake]

I love how you use photos to illustrate your point. You say that North American civs are not "awe inspiring". Yet people demand a Zulu civ, and there seems to be no dilemma about that.

Spoiler :

How is this (Native North American):



Any less awe inspiring than this? (Zulu):

If Zulu is worthy of being in the game then Native American civs are certainly worthy.

really? you're really gonna compare a hut with mesa Verde?

edit: oops my bad. You are arguing for their inclusion.

 

[Bad Wolf]

They don't really have a very distinctively individual culture

I don't know about Australia and New Zealand but Canada has a distinct if somewhat parochial culture. I imagine Australia and New Zealand are even more distinct given their distance from Britain and the United States. As far as fitting into Civ V, the Great War Infantry would be the perfect unique unit (Canadian Corps, WWI being a defining event in shaping Canadian identity); I don't think any civ is using that one yet. UB could be a hockey-themed Stadium (anyone who says Canada's hockey obsession is just a stereotype doesn't know very many Canadians, it's totally a thing). UA could be something related to the new trade system (export economy).

For Australia I've seen several people mention ANZACs which would be a good way to incorporate New Zealand into the mix (the way Norway is incorporated into Denmark, etc.) Don't know enough about Australia to think of a UB or UA.

I'm not expecting any of those three but they have surprised us in the past.

 

[Larwood]

UB could be a hockey-themed Stadium (anyone who says Canada's hockey obsession is just a stereotype doesn't know very many Canadians, it's totally a thing).

Don't know enough about Australia to think of a UB or UA.

If they were to do this, a good UB for Australia/NZ could be similar to what you suggest for Canada. They both have a very strong sporting ethos and are disproportionately powerful at sports like rugby and cricket given their population.

 

[Menzies]

If they were to do this, a good UB for Australia/NZ could be similar to what you suggest for Canada. They both have a very strong sporting ethos and are disproportionately powerful at sports like rugby and cricket given their population.

I think I heard a mention of sporting events (part of the international congress) in the game in the announcement actually... it would make sense with that for Australia, a relative power house in the Olympics, Rugby Union, Rugby League and Cricket, as well as their own Australia Rules Football (not hard to be a powerhouse in a sport you exclusively play though) to be included with such a system in place, with a UA that was related to such, as well as a UB to replace stadiums (say, Cricket Ovals) and ANZACs as a UU. Of course, Sir Robert Menzies as the leader, Green and Gold as the colours and an adaptation of Waltzing Matilda as the background music would all work quite well.

Not sure how I'd feel about that exactly, but...

 

[El Conquistador]

I actually haven't played Civ V yet. I'm still holding out for the Complete Edition (which I hope is coming soon), but adding Portugal is a must.

Some other civs I think it would be cool to include are Belgium, Mexico, Brazil, Italy, Israel (ancient), Kongo, and Vietnam.

Anyone know if this is likely to be the final DLC?

 

[leif erikson]

Welcome to CivFanatics.

Civ5 has been in a state of flux since it arrived. Do not think anyone knows what its final state will be. This expansion pack has been rumored for a while, finally announced today. More dlc, who knows for sure. Pay attention to PAX next weekend for more details, I hope.

 

[Menzies]

While Canada, Australia and New Zealand are, geographically and politically, about as splendid as a country can be, I can't really see a niche for them in Civilization. They don't really have a very distinctively individual culture (apart from the cultures of the indigenous inhabitants) and have never had a period of global or, except perhaps Australia, regional dominance. I'm not saying periods of dominance are necessarily a good thing to try to achieve, but it's generally a prerequisite for inclusion in the civ list.

This is an outsider's view from the reviled mother country though...

Australia certainly is a regional power in Southeast Asia and then Pacific.

Again though, if they are included, it would be a bolt from the blue and likely only if there is something to do with sport in the World Congress as that would be a good UA for them.

 

[Gucumatz]

Having a UA completely dedicated to sport is doubtful, considering that it takes the World Congress to exist before you could use it.

 

[ProddingLions]

A couple of modern wildcards I think have a chance to make it:
-Canada, William Lyon Mackenzie King or John A. MacDonald as leader. Possibly diplo UA
-Yugoslavia, Josip Broz Tito, have a legacy within the last century, but inclusion may inflame fan's passions as a unified state. (Myself included)
-Gran Columbia, Simon Bolivar, boosts to mountain warfare due to guerrilla tactics. Short lived lifetime limits this however
-Australia, as mentioned above with Robert Menzies as leader. ANZAC troops, UA boosting defense or tourism
-Belgium, with their history of colonization (Congo) may be included. UA boosting natural resources and trade (shoutout to diamond market).
-Switzerland, with boosts to world congress and pikemen? Bit of a stretch. Seems like bonafide city state material.



Thoughts?

 

[Pouakai]

Having Canada / Australia would almost make me consider not buying it, to be perfectly honest.

 

[fuzzatron717]

Well Canada could have a play in the late game. Although stereotyped maybe the UA could encompass something of snow and tundra bonus plus maybe a money or diplo bonus. The UU could be like the Canadian Mounties that have bonuses fighting in forest and tundra's. As for something else that is up to them cause there are several things.

Other civs maybe Khazaria and Mughals/timurids and maybe Ancient Israel.

 

[aluelkdf]

Having Canada / Australia would almost make me consider not buying it, to be perfectly honest.

Australia, maybe. And the only reason why I say that is because that part of the world is underrepresented, and there is not really anything else in that area that would be better than Australia.

There are enough civs in North America, that I really don't have any interest in seeing Canada. Canada is pretty irrelevant on the global stage as far as civs go.

Australia and Canada are both part of the British Commonwealth, and they have the same queen that the UK does. Canada and Australia don't really have independence and are really just a part of the British Empire.

 

[Nivek5150]

In my mind, Portugal is already confirmed. It simply has to be in it, both for the sake of the theme and also because you're running out of major civilizations/empires to add, and there's going to be 9 spots. How can you add 9 more civs to this game and still skip Portugal?

Australia, New Zealand & Canada all sound like pretty terrible additions. Being nice places to live isn't enough to qualify as an interesting or important addition to the game. If we were to get another British territory added, I'd much rather have a Scottish civ.