BtS OOS (Out of Sync Error)

Im not sure if im right or if this might solve the problem but ill mention it anyway (maybe i mixed it with some other problems). If one PC is using winXP and other is using Vista/Win7 u might have OOS. If u change compatibility on Vista/7 to WinXp u should be able to play it with no problem.
Again i might mistaken this with some other bug.
 
karadoc said:
Failing that though, assuming that these large amounts of OOS errors are due to some bug in K-Mod, then I'd like to know the following details:
  • Is "simultaneous turns" enabled?
  • Is this a pitboss game?
  • Is there a turn timer?
  • Are you using a special map script?
(I don't think random events have anything to do with it.)

If the OOS really does happen the instant you join the game, then there must be some reason why you are seeing it and I'm not seeing it. I want to know what I need to do to reproduce this problem, so that I can find its cause.
Click to expand...

We actually downloaded the v1.32 at the same moment, and tried several times to delete everything K-Mod related then reinstall just in case, as you mention, something might be different.


[*]Is "simultaneous turns" enabled?
I think so, because we can move our units simultaneously during a turn.

[*]Is this a pitboss game?
No, we launch the game, load the mod, go to Multiplayer>Direct IP then connect to our friend's game. I don't know if this is important but, following En_Dotter's reply, the host runs Vista and we have Win7 (family edition so no XP mod).

[*]Is there a turn timer?
No turn timer.

[*]Are you using a special map script?
Yes, more specifically Perfectworld2 script. The odd thing is we used it with v1.31 as well.


We are two players in the same location (behind the same router) running Win7, and one player, the host on Vista, outside. When we try to launch a game within the same network with the above specificities, it works. When the outsider steps in, it fails, unless we launch the game from a savegame.

Thank you for following up on this.
 
Ok.. Well, I still don't have any solid ideas for what might be causing the problem - but I do have some more ideas for things you can check to try to work it out.

You mentioned that when just two of you play together at the same house it works ok, but when the third person joins from outside it breaks. What if just one of the home players and the external player are in the same game? Does that work? If it does, then it suggest the problem is something to do with all three of you being in the same game at once. If it doesn't work, it suggests the problem is related to the external person's setup.

If it's possible to get the external person into the local network for testing, then that's another thing to try - if everything works when all three of you are in the same house, then it suggest the problem has something to do with the network setup - maybe there's some port settings or something that need to be changed. If being in the same house doesn't fix the problem, then again it suggests it has something to do with the third person.

I don't expect that PerfectWorld2 would be the cause of the problems, but I'd still suggest doing these test with one of the standard map scripts just so that we can be certain it isn't related to the map script. (As a completely off-topic aside, I'm not really a fan of PerfectWorld maps... they seem to produce a lot of homogenous junk like this and this. Maybe I just don't know which settings to use or something, but those maps don't look very good to me...)

I have heard several people say that Windows XP and Windows Vista / 7 playing together can cause problems (which can be worked around by setting the Vista / 7 computer to use XP compatibility mode). But I don't think that's what's causing what you're seeing, because I've never heard of the 7 vs XP thing causing instantaneous OOS - and besides, I personally suspect that it the OS compatibility problems aren't actually a separate bug, but rather just that the different OSs cause existing bugs to manifest in different ways... (ie. if all the other bugs were fixed, I don't there would be any problem using XP and 7 together.)


...

So anyway, as I said, I don't really have any further ideas as to what might be causing the problem, but if you have the time / inclination, I suggest you try some of those tests I suggested so that we can narrow down the problem.
 
Unfortunately the third person lives abroad, we may be able to test this at one point but I can't really provide you with any feedback on this so far. Anyway, before we attempted to switch to v1.32 we did not have any issue when starting a game.

The problem may be related to the third person set up as we tried to exclude one home player and it still gives OOS.

Also, we do not use XP and don't have ,on our machines, the XP compatibility mod. I doubt the outsider (on Vista) uses this kind of mod anyway.

Off topic: Well, perfectworld2 script if so far my favourite, even tho starting points can be (very) imba. But it adds a nice flavor and a sense of realism. A matter of taste I suppose...
 
Hey I just wanted to share what my friends figured out. In a singleplayer game when you end your turn your movements are locked while the globe spins. In a multiplayer game you can end your turn and still mess with stuff up until the last player ends their turn. It seems to us that we got an oos error every time by messing with something right at the moment the other players end their turn the game starts chugging.

We got in the habit of ending our turn and not touching our mouse until the new turn starts. We went from an oos error every other turn to 4 hrs of trouble free play.

It seems like an easy fix would be to treat multiplayer like singleplayer and put a lock down on the ui when you decide you're done. Makes it boring not being able to fiddle with stuff but I prefer that over having to restart and reload.

We're playing Fall from Heaven 2 multi on a huge map with simu turns and random events on.
 
After a break, we decided to launch a Direct IP game, K-Mod loaded of course and... it worked without any OOS!

We were actually able to play several games without any OOS, what we changed was the map type. Instead of perfect world 2, we played on Terra and Not-too_big/small.

I don't understand why we got some at one point...

ognitinoc: well, I think we naturally do that, I'm not sure if it has an impact but who knows...
 
Update: we actually get an OOS straight away when we start a game with the mapscript Perfectworld2. The other map scripts we've tried (Terra, Not too big or small, Tectonic ...) work fine.
 
To me that suggest that the bug is inside the mapscript itself.

I downloaded perfectworld2 and glanced at the code. It's pretty long, and I don't really want to have to comb through it all to look for problems, but I did notice that it uses two different random-number-generators. Judging by the comments in the code, they would like to use PyRand for everything, but they know that it doesn't work in multiplayer games (ie. it causes OOS errors), so what they do is use PyRand in single player and CyMapRand in multiplayer -- with a system like that, it's pretty easy to see how they could make a mistake which causes an OOS error. If they just forget to check whether the game is is multiplayer for any one of their random numbers, then the game could go OOS.

(In my view, they (ie. the author(s) of Perfectworld2) should just use CyMapRand exclusively regardless of whether it is a multiplayer game. That way they wouldn't have to worry about OOS bugs.)

.. So my first guess that such a mistake exists in the map script.
 
Indeed, that makes sense. We've abandonned the perfectworld2 script anyway, it's kind of funky but too imabalanced in multiplayer. Now, by avoiding it, K-Mod is our solution to prevent OOS, it's been working perfectly ever since. Thanks for the follow up.
 
Hi karadoc,
Thanks a lot for your good work, K-mod seems to have solved our OOS problems as well, however, not having the BUG-mod UI enhancements is really painful... would you maybe have any idea how one gets to have the best of both worlds?
cheers
 
The orange fist.... I like that I don't have to inspect each AI every turn. I've had some declare for no apparent reason that I can find, I know there is a reason, I just don't always see it in time.
 
Hello, me and my friend did some Direct IP last nite. He was on his desktop and i brought my laptop. We had gigantic map, 20 AI + us 2 so total 22. We had revoluton on, random events on too, barbarian gernerals, multi research and produce, advance epi, untied nations, unlimited wonders, advance episode, limited religions, useable mountains.

Our first OOS was somewhere near when one of us got Code of Laws, we restarted both pc and started again and it last 30-50 turns then oos again... we connected pc with his router and one time the IP number changed dont know why. When doin IPconfig in dos. I will post more when we finish lan tonite.
For us oos every 50 turns is ok but if its goin to be continously every 10 bleh we will give up.

Its ridicilousy fun lan this game with AND mod. Yes we use Civ 3.19+ AND 2.92
 
keldath said:
AND 2 have oos in it, simple as that, wanna multi play?
use only kmod based mods.

also - the larger the map, the harder on the cpu, more likely to crash.
Click to expand...
Hi Keldath, What is kmod exactly. I never heard of it.
Yes is oos alot while we tryed multiplay house to house. We did try that few years ago. Not with this mod AND 2. was other version of Rise of mankind. But lan in same room was great.Was not too much oos. Just rejoined the game. We didnt continue the lan other evening but we will continue better time.
 
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