Can someone explain the Culture victory once and for all?

[LDiCesare]

Is there any relation between tourists and culture? Or is culture totally unrelated and has no effect on tourism?

 

[Zyxpsilon]

Anyone looking for "relatively" good hints on how the whole Cultural Winning condition(s) work -- there's no better way to explain it than with a solid snapshot of some facts enhanced by RED arrows like this...

http://imgur.com/a/hKqCH

or that --

As soon as i clicked "Next Turn" -- WIN!

 

[dtfauss]

Nicely explained in that image - thanks

 

[Balkans]

So that's the meaning of numbers...now it makes perfect sense. Thanks.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

Anytime, people!

 

[Stringer1313]

Thank you. But how do you generate domestic tourism? And what role does culture play into all of this?

 

[Atwork]

How does Appeal factor in?

 

[Zyxpsilon]

Terrain tiles "proximity" and whatever good features they each provide. There's an "Appeal Lense" on the Mini-Map tab-bar, btw... which puts better Quality_ vs_Bad in a Green/To/Red gradient.

An inherent value is then re-compiled to add an attraction factor for that specific tile.

@BarshyJ,

IIRC, Domestic Tourism simply is a (nearly random) result of how appealing your various locations are to other Civs. Sometimes they would come to the Holy-Site (snapshot @7) because it has the edge over anything else like Petra (@0) further up that was built on a less-attracting terrain (FloodPlains).
I also suspect every Civs have a unique inclination mechanics towards specific Tiles related to their "personalities".. the SDK will probably give us the entire logic structure involved here.

Secondly.. CULTURE is a pre-determined span of generic influence that combines with global totals (in our context -- Tourism *Input*) you possess; Government/Civics, Districts output & other bonuses that spread over a wide range of Empire-wide "calculations".

 

[Stringer1313]

My understanding that Appeal ONLY matters because they are prerequisites to other things that generate tourism, like seaside resorts. I don't think that having inherently high appeal tiles automatically attracts tourists or anything do they?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

My understanding that Appeal ONLY matters because they are prerequisites to other things that generate tourism, like seaside resorts. I don't think that having inherently high appeal tiles automatically attracts tourists or anything do they?

From what I can tell, that is correct.

High appeal only factors into Tourism for tiles under National Parks and Seaside Resorts. They allow you to establish and construct those things, but also generate their Tourism values. A National Park's Tourism value is the sum of the Appeal numbers on the 4 tiles that make it up. A Resort's Tourism value is double its tile Appeal.

So the Eiffel Tower can allow you to build more of these, but also makes them more potent. The Cristo Redentor doubles Resort Tourism again.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

Soooo, what you are saying (EaglePursuit).. is that TILES themselves (and what's built on them) ---always--- generate some appeal values, right?!

Because, that is exactly what i meant in my reply above too!

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Soooo, what you are saying (EaglePursuit).. is that TILES themselves (and what's built on them) ---always--- generate some appeal values, right?!

Because, that is exactly what i meant in my reply above too!

All tiles have an appeal value....

That Appeal value has Nothing to do with Tourism unless the tile has a Resort or National Park on it.

Also the
13 Domestic tourist of Scythia
connects to the second 14 (14 / 14<-this is from Scythia's 13 domestic tourists)

The first 14 is from the 8 and 6...
8 Scythian tourists visiting you + 6 Norweigan tourists visiting you->14 / 14

Its not clear how the tile values are generated.... whether its

Tile tourism->Tile tourists->Total tile tourists divided among civs->readded together for total (civ tourists=flavor)
OR
Civ Tourism->Civ tourists->Total civ tourists used to win and randomly divided among tiles (tile tourists=flavor)

However... civ tourism is more likely as there is a large number of boosts/penalties to culture with particular civs.. the "tile tourists" may just be flavor

 

[LDiCesare]

I wonder why this called a cultural victory. It's tourism victory. Culture in itself is rather useless. It buys you the cards you need, but you're out of useful cards pretty fast. Or am I missing something? Is there an effect of culture over tourism?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I wonder why this called a cultural victory. It's tourism victory. Culture in itself is rather useless. It buys you the cards you need, but you're out of useful cards pretty fast. Or am I missing something? Is there an effect of culture over tourism?

Possibly, culture acts as your defense against tourism. (generating the domestic tourists that another civ must overcome)

Also some Tourism sources are also culture sources
Great works, Culture tile Improvements

Wonders, and Appeal based tourism (Resorts+Parks) is separate from culture though.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I wonder why this called a cultural victory. It's tourism victory. Culture in itself is rather useless. It buys you the cards you need, but you're out of useful cards pretty fast. Or am I missing something? Is there an effect of culture over tourism?

Tourism and culture is closely tied together

Great works give both, wonders while they may not give culture are still cultural achievements. Resorts and Parks are maybe the doubtful cultural things but what should be viewed as culture or not is pretty arbitary

 

[lamaros]

IIRC, Domestic Tourism simply is a (nearly random) result of how appealing your various locations are to other Civs. Sometimes they would come to the Holy-Site (snapshot @7) because it has the edge over anything else like Petra (@0) further up that was built on a less-attracting terrain (FloodPlains).
I also suspect every Civs have a unique inclination mechanics towards specific Tiles related to their "personalities".. the SDK will probably give us the entire logic structure involved here.

Secondly.. CULTURE is a pre-determined span of generic influence that combines with global totals (in our context -- Tourism *Input*) you possess; Government/Civics, Districts output & other bonuses that spread over a wide range of Empire-wide "calculations".

Your style of writing is a bit different, but I'm pretty sure that this is incorrect, anyhow.

 

[MasterDinadan]

Culture generates domestic tourists for your civ. Tourism lures tourists from other civs to yours. The tourism is applied to each civ you've met and is modified by certain things like trade routes, so you may lure tourists from civs more often than from others.

Tourists that are lured from other civs will appear at some tourist site (the big numbers you see using Tourism lens. The zeroes are places that generate tourism but haven't yet attracted any tourists)
The target you need to win is based on whichever other civ has the most remaining domestic tourists.

Some consequences of this system -
You can get closer to winning if you eliminate civs with a lot of domestic tourists, or at least remove their sources of culture so they don't gain domestic tourists as quickly.
You can actually make other civs LOSE domestic tourists if your tourism is attracting at a greater rate than their culture is generating.
If you lose control of a tile that has tourists visiting, I assume you lose the tourists. But I'm not sure if another player takes them, they disappear, or they go home. In any case, if another civ is close to winning tourist victory, taking their tourist sites away from them is a way to stop or slow them.

I'm not 100% sure about the above but it's consistent with what I've seen in game.
I also don't know exactly how much culture you need to make a tourist, how much tourism you need to steal a tourist, or how the incoming tourists decide what site to visit.

There are the following rows in the GlobalParameters XML:
<Row Value="100" Name="TOURISM_CULTURE_PER_CITIZEN"/>
<Row Value="150" Name="TOURISM_TOURISM_TO_MOVE_CITIZEN"/>

I assume "citizen" means tourist. If so, this would imply a civ generates a domestic tourist for every 100 culture they generate, and a civ steals 1 attracts one tourist from another civ for every 150 tourism exerted against them. I'll try to keep an eye out in my next game and see if the numbers add up.

 

[sresk]

I just got done with a King large map tourist victory, ended in the modern era around 1600's... here's some stuff I learned:

1. Culture is defense, tourism is offence.
2. The only defense you need to worry about is the civ with the highest culture. As an example I had 150 tourists visiting me one civ had 200 domestic toursits, one civ had 170 domestic tourists and the other 6 or 7 had about 50 domestic tourists each. The game told me I needed 201 tourists to win. I eliminated that civ and then only needed 171 tourists to win... theoretically I could have eliminated that civ and then only needed 51. The flip side is I had about 600+ domestic tourists so every other civ needed 601 tourists to win while I only needed 171.
3. As others have stated appeal is only good for where you can put national parks and resorts
4. I can confirm is takes a lot more than 150 tourism to attract 1 tourist. I was pumping out well in excess of 1500 tourism a turn and won with about 170 tourists. With some of the civs that I had met I had accumulated over 40k or total tourism and only had about 20 tourists from that civ. Granted I was playing on epic speed but even at 1500+ tourism a turn I was only getting 1 new tourist every 2-3 turns.
5. Completely eliminating a civ does not change your total number of tourists you just end up attracting the same number of tourist from the other civs (which seems weird) so the easiest way to win is to be a warmonger and eliminate the civs with the highest culture output
6. Tourism scales HARD with era wen I went from industrial to modern my tourism out almost doubled.
7. Tourism is generated by all wonders... but you can;t find out how much until you build it and then go to the tourism lens... and it does increase as you advance through the era's.
8. The amount of culture you generate is almost worthless, I had maxed out the civics tree and researched the final 2 techs about 15-20 times before I finally won... I received no score bonus or additional benefit from researching the end of the tree techs multiple times. So if you want a culture vicotry don;t worry about cutlure at all you'll have plenty worry about tourism. Which means that...
9. You with need A LOT of faith. You'll need to buy national parks (which costs 1000's of faith each) and great people
10. the great spark belief that gives you +1 gpp per district is super OP if you want a tourism victory, rush religion on turn 1 and grab that. Other wise good luck every getting enough great artist to win this way.

All in all the tourist victory was fun it felt way better than the science victory because there is at least a little bit of counter play in that the others civs could build up their culture to have stopped me from winning unlike a science victory where the only way to stop it is to wipe them off the map. And it confirmed that vanilla balance is borked Won't play another vanilla game without modding slower tech and faster production!

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I just got done with a King large map tourist victory, ended in the modern era around 1600's... here's some stuff I learned:

1. Completely eliminating a civ does not change your total number of tourists you just end up attracting the same number of tourist from the other civs (which seems weird) so the easiest way to win is to be a warmonger and eliminate the civs with the highest culture output!

That seems really weird

A way I could see it working

CivA Culture generates Domestic Tourists for CivA

Civ B produces Tourism against Civ A....
this can do one of two things

1. Change a CivA Domestic Tourist into a CivA->CivB visiting Foreign Tourist
2. Change a CivB->CivA visiting Foreign Tourist back into a CivB Domestic Tourist

So the number of tourists you are receiving from a civ is not just your total lifetime tourism against them.... it is
Your total tourism against them - Their total tourism against you

probably not quite right.... but it would fit with the "Tourism to Move Citizen" and having 20 tourists but 40,000 total tourism (the 20 tourists at 150 tourism each would be the 3,000 difference)... so they probably had 37,000 total tourism on you.

And it would fit with civs being eliminated.... their tourists are still "visiting you" so they just change where they are from.


Another possibility
Civ B produces Tourism against Civ A....
this can do one of two things

1. Creates CivA->CivB visiting Foreign Tourist
2. Eliminates a CivB->CivA visiting Foreign Tourist

Whether it does 1 or 2 depends on
-Total "Visiting Tourists" from A to all civs v. Domestic Tourists in A
-Total "Visiting Tourists" from B to A v. number from A to B

 

[Big J Money]

I've had a tourist on a tile with 96 culture. And I guarantee you I didn't have a +36% Tourism bonus with any civ. In the same game I also had a tile with 450+ culture and only 1 Tourist. Best case scenario there would be 1 Tourist per 276 culture, and I guarantee you I didn't have a -84% penalty with any civ, either. So that '150 culture per foreign tourist' isn't the entire picture.