Capitulation ... how?

[OTAKUjbski]

I know the mechanics of Capitulation and what buttons to press; that's not what I'm asking.

What I want to know is wtf kind of formula the AI is using to make it feel losing 3 major cities in one wave to a vastly superior invasion force is "Doing fine on our own".

Is there some kind of secret formula for 'encouraging' someone to become a Vassal or to Capitulate?

Is it like with Permanent Alliances -- where you shouldn't be #1 in Power or something?

What gives?

How can I speed up the Capitulation process in my games?

 

[vanatteveldt]

Disclaimer: These are not the formulae you are looking for

I think capitulating does not have that much to do with your own strength, it seems that as soon as an AI has decided that he is lost he will capitulate to pretty much anyone.

In my experience, the AI only capitulates when it is more or less done for, ie if it has lost all major cities except maybe one, is reduced to a couple fringe cities in the tundra. And not even consistently then: in a recent game I invaded the chinese until they only had silly tundra villages left, and still it refused to capitulate. (I stopped building military as soon as is was obvious that the war was won, so it might have something to do with the AI estimation that he will be destroyed based on power)

A WB experiment could be to declare war in the ancient age, and add infantry to adjust power ranking at different stages of the war? But I guess the real answer might have to come from SDK inspection...?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Best I can tell, the factors that matter the most towards capitulation are:

1. Your power rating vs theirs
2. How many of their cities you've taken
3. "War Success" - basically your kill-to-death ratio against them.

Also, while it is possible to have an AI capitulate while still technically having the pop or land to break free (this has always occurred when I wiped out a ridiculous 50 unit SoD while losing maybe 8-10 units if that), that is significantly more rare, so try get them below 50% of your pop and land also.

I've forced tons and tons of capitulations, but I don't know exactly how the mechanics work either. I can guarantee #2 and #3 factor in, but how much they are weighted I can not say. I'm pretty sure #1 is too, but there might be additional factors I'm not aware of.

 

[mystyfly]

smashing their sod helps. if they don't see any way they could win the war (atm) like having no offensive units makes them more likely to capitulate.

 

[Endure]

3. "War Success" - basically your kill-to-death ratio against them.
.

I think this must be a pretty big factor.

I've had games where I've fought an AI who's power level rivals or surpasses my own at the start of the war and smashed their SoDs (usually within my own borders) and then only taken a few of their cities. Most of their core-cities (including capital) all still have 4+ units in them and aren't threatened atm. But their power level has dropped dramatically (from the SoDs being smashed and losing a few cities) and they'll capitulate and become a very strong vassal.

Meanwhile, I've fought wars against Civs considerably weaker then me in power levels and been forced to take nearly all their cities except for the weak ones in bad locations before they capitulate and become a very weak vassal. The key difference though is they never had huge SoDs to deal with at the start.

 

[futurehermit]

The peaceful civs (Gandhi/Hatty/Mansa) tend to capitulate faster in my experience. The proud warriors like Genghis you have to pretty much annihilate. What you need is to wipe out their SoD, wipe out the majority of their cities, and have a much higher power rating. If they would be willing to vassal to you peacefully (i.e., they are peaceful, weak, and you are strong and diplomatically well situated) then you can sometimes capitulate peaceful civs soon after you launch your assault.

 

[Shekwan]

As far as I can tell from my own experience, the main factor is your power rating versus theirs. Also if you already have a vassal it seems to make them capitulate easier. This starts a kind of snowball effect, making each capitulation easier.

I was playing a game today where i was destroying Tokugawa and he refused to capitulate when he was obviously screwed. I assumed it was just Tokugawa being himself - a stubborn f***. But when i moused over "capitulation" it said "We fear your enemies". I was at war with Louis, so I made peace and Tokugawa promptly capitulated. This could be another reason why your enemies aren't capitulating with ease in desperate situations.

 

[y2jaus]

I was recently playing Earth 18 civs as Rome, and i smashed spain, germany france and then greece and persia, and Mansa Musa approached me unsolicited and offered to become my vassal

Perhaps it is the perception of how many cities you have conquered. If you have been peaceful for 1000 years then suddenly conquer three cities, they are unlikely to capitulate. However, if you are rampaging across the map and show up at their borders on the heels of ten centuries of bloodshed, they may roll over after 1 battle.

 

[Alexchamp]

Who knows how exactly to influence the capitulation АI? How can I speed up the Capitulation process ? What does it depend to ?

 

[Noobslayer9000]

I was playing a game today where i was destroying Tokugawa and he refused to capitulate when he was obviously screwed. I assumed it was just Tokugawa being himself - a stubborn f***. But when i moused over "capitulation" it said "We fear your enemies". I was at war with Louis, so I made peace and Tokugawa promptly capitulated. This could be another reason why your enemies aren't capitulating with ease in desperate situations.

This reminds me of a very awkward experience like this the other day - I had a good SoD of rifles ready to attack Justinian, who had Tokugawa as a vassal.
I DoW'd, and took his capital and a smaller city with about a 5:1 KD ratio overall (Lol SoD of Cuirassers defending). Asoka also was warring, and he took Justinian's holy city. When I checked the diplo screen, Justinian didn't capitulate for the same "We fear your enemies", but I was not fighting anyone else, and this was my first war of the game! Is it possible that he fears his vassal (Tokugawa), because when I would vassalize him, Tokugawa would break free? Lol.

 

[JujuLautre]

I expect there was another civ out there with a high power rating and not liking you. This should be the "enemy" the computer is referring to.

 

[asbestosman]

I was recently playing Earth 18 civs as Rome, and i smashed spain, germany france and then greece and persia, and Mansa Musa approached me unsolicited and offered to become my vassal

Perhaps it is the perception of how many cities you have conquered. If you have been peaceful for 1000 years then suddenly conquer three cities, they are unlikely to capitulate. However, if you are rampaging across the map and show up at their borders on the heels of ten centuries of bloodshed, they may roll over after 1 battle.

Mansa Musa often seems to be asking to become my vassal when we're not at war. I'm not much of a warmonger, so I think he just has self esteem issues

 

[Gwynnja]

I don't get this either. Right now, I'm hatty, with a pretty big tech lead in the late industrial age, mostly trying to mop up and finish the game. I started out on a continent with Mehmed, Stalin, and Gandhi; War Chariots destroyed mehmed and stalin in the bcs and I kept gandhi alive hoping he could keep up in tech, but his little part of the continent was bottle necked and I had an empire three times the size it should have been. Anyhow, I find the other continent (wang, washington, and bismarck,) make freinds with them, build a bunch of cannons, pay bismarck to attack washington and conquer wang after taking two cities. washington capitulates to bismarck, I attack them, and colonize my new cities to monty of all people. (it's really weird having monty as a friendly vassal by the way.) I make my way along the coast taking the cities as I go; they have no resistance for my cannons. Eventually washington breaks free, then tell me he's too scared of bismarck to capitulate. I take a cease fire with bismarck; washington tells me, "you must be joking." I wonder if i'd sued for peace with bismarck be more willing to capitulate? my victory is inevitable, yet tedious.

 

[schwartz]

Capitulation mechanics are confusing to me.. I usually play with 'No Vassal States' checked now..
I've also come across a redded out capitulation and saw "You've grown too powerful for us"

 

[IronCrown]

In my experience the main factor for capitulation is the leader personality. Some leaders plead for mercy when they lose two cities, others fight to the death.

 

[slobberinbear]

The only thing more frustrating than the lack of transparency about the capitulation mechanic is the fact that an enemy Civ will refuse to become your vassal, only to become a different enemy's vassal. This is hard to take in the heat of the moment, let me tell you, particularly when you have been absolutely pounding the vassal-to-be and wiping out his units left and right. This happened to me where Toku capitulated to Cyrus (and not me, Napoleon), even though I'd pounded him harder. The only thing Cyrus had on me was more land/cities, and another vassal. His rating may have been higher too, but I left convinced that there was another factor:

1. The ratio of your empire's size to theirs somehow plays into this (either population points, land area, or something)

 

[Alexchamp]

Who knows how exactly to influence the capitulation АI? How can I speed up the Capitulation process ? What does it depend to ?