Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[Koshling]

What i dont like about it is dozens of building choices displayed by (i think) building time. Its useful for small cities where its better to get them going by constructing all them cheap buildings first. But later when i want to specialise my settlements i find it very difficult to find what i want from the building menu. Its a mess and feels more like a chore than fun.

You can change it to alphabetic if you prefer that (I do) - in assets/xml/A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines.xml, change the 0 to a 1 in:

	<Define>
		<DefineName>CITY_SORT_BUILDINGS_ALPHA</DefineName>
		<iDefineIntVal>0</iDefineIntVal>
	</Define>

We're hoping to move this (and other filters) into the city UI in V19.

 

[ClassicFrog]

Thanks. What other filters do you have in mind?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

...And speaking of building times, dont you think its too easy to build up a fleet? I mean, to me it seems like ships are dirt cheap compared to land units and buildings. In reality only very rich countries could afford large fleets and toys like ships of the line, battleships or carriers. A loss of even one or two in an engagement meant a significant blow to the war effort on a given front. I think that at least larger ships (ships of different eras considered to be "capital ships") should cost few times more than now and have a hefty support price per turn to reflect the fact that maintaining a fleet is something more than just maintaining some land units and being a naval power means being in an elite club just as it was and is. Just my 2 cents

If naval warfare was better thought out and useful I would fully agree. Currently I go with the Olde English idea of having twice as big a fleet as my two strongest rivals combined.

Thanks. What other filters do you have in mind?

Once I get one working, we will see. Heroes first is a must in the units! Mind you they may need toning down a bit, mu golden age has been at over 200 turns for ages (Indust and Modern). Every time it gets close to 200 I get another hero that starts another golden age.

 

[Koshling]

Thanks. What other filters do you have in mind?

Show only buildings that provide: food, gold, research, etc.

 

[Thunderbrd]

And on that note... can ANYONE let me know where the graphic files for the little button symbols that are already there for units, buildings, wonders are located and how to unpack them? After looking for them, my best guess is that they are locked away in some of the game core files wherein graphics are packaged in a way I'm unfamiliar with. Makes it a bit difficult to work with.

I could probably get a screenshot and generate new files like them from that but in that case it'd be very helpful to know what their measurements and resolution should be (info that I'd have immediately if opening originals.)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

And on that note... can ANYONE let me know where the graphic files for the little button symbols that are already there for units, buildings, wonders are located and how to unpack them? After looking for them, my best guess is that they are locked away in some of the game core files wherein graphics are packaged in a way I'm unfamiliar with. Makes it a bit difficult to work with.

I could probably get a screenshot and generate new files like them from that but in that case it'd be very helpful to know what their measurements and resolution should be (info that I'd have immediately if opening originals.)

As far as I know, the game uses the standard ones and shrinks them as required. The python does for the religion ones in the city screen. I was looking for the Plot List ones but that seems to have gone from C2C.

For unit filters, I would use the unit combat class button. For buildings, use the standard gold, hammer, culture, espionage and food icons.

 

[Thunderbrd]

um... sadly, your response doesn't aid me too greatly as I'm just as unaware of the location of those files either (but will go for a look later).

Also, are you suggesting that the size of the file and resolution shouldn't matter much?

hmm... I wonder what unit filters we should utilize. I suppose at least defining non-military from military would be a good start. Perhaps missionaries and executives could be good to isolate too.

 

[walesscot]

So, anybody have problem with too many Barbarians in the 18 version or just I have that problem?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

So, anybody have problem with too many Barbarians in the 18 version or just I have that problem?

It is a general problem. We are working on it.

um... sadly, your response doesn't aid me too greatly as I'm just as unaware of the location of those files either (but will go for a look later).

Also, are you suggesting that the size of the file and resolution shouldn't matter much?

hmm... I wonder what unit filters we should utilize. I suppose at least defining non-military from military would be a good start. Perhaps missionaries and executives could be good to isolate too.

I am suggesting that for units we use the UNIT COMBAT class button, and that the Python can shrink those itself like it does for the religions. The unit combat classes are used to group units for promotion purposes but they could also work here. Or maybe that is a particular sort order.

 

[Sleeeper]

*deleted*

 

[Thunderbrd]

I am suggesting that for units we use the UNIT COMBAT class button, and that the Python can shrink those itself like it does for the religions. The unit combat classes are used to group units for promotion purposes but they could also work here. Or maybe that is a particular sort order.

I can be really slow to pick up the gist sometimes... now that I read it again I totally see what you mean and think its a great idea! I could use THOSE unit combat class buttons as a template for the buildings... I think I can find those files... now then... progress

 

[nichopoleve]

I think there is something wrong with stables/mamut building.

It does not give speed promotion to mamuts, but it gives it to zebra, horses camels etc.

 

[FromHesse]

Did you ever think about making ships unupgradable. I never heard that in real history galleys from ancient era were upgraded to Galeons or later to transportships. Normally ships are wrecked off if they are out of date.

 

[ori]

Well I never heard of modern troops being recruited from clubmen either
I don't believe it would make gameplay any better, frankly.

 

[Koshling]

Well I never heard of modern troops being recruited from clubmen either
I don't believe it would make gameplay any better, frankly.

Upgrading in Civ more reflects re-triaing (of personel and support infrastructure) I think than it does the actual hardware

 

[ClassicFrog]

I think that ships should be unupgradable. That would go towards my idea of making them more expensive because if one would want to keep the fleet up to date then he/she would need to keep building new models and scrap the obsolete ones.

As to troops, well, i dont think how could you retrain a cavaleryman to go and pilot a gunship
You could make melee troops to upgrade only as far as the strongest melee units go and archers to upgrade as far as archer line of units go etc. So you could give a clubman an axe and hed become an axemen. But you couldnt expect elephant rider to (through upgrade) instantly know how to drive a tank and shoot a cannon

 

[strategyonly]

I think that ships should be unupgradable. That would go towards my idea of making them more expensive because if one would want to keep the fleet up to date then he/she would need to keep building new models and scrap the obsolete ones.

I dont agree here, they upgrade ships (build then better with new technology etc) and making then more stable, even to this day, "we" haven't really gotten to the modern and beyond era much lately, concentrating to much on before era's.

As to troops, well, i dont think how could you retrain a cavalryman to go and pilot a gunship
But you couldn't expect elephant rider to (through upgrade) instantly know how to drive a tank and shoot a cannon

I dont agree here either, because where i was stationed at the 101st Airborne Division, the so called "Cavalry" old units still ride horses (for show(s) in Kentucky/Tennessee areas. But their main job(s) are pilots of gunships/helicopters nowadays. (Apocalypse Now)
Same goes for the rider really, they are trained nowadays as Artillerymen, which i was in that Division also.

 

[bill2505]

I dont agree here, they upgrade ships (build then better with new technology etc) and making then more stable, even to this day, "we" haven't really gotten to the modern and beyond era much lately, concentrating to much on before era's.



I dont agree here either, because where i was stationed at the 101st Airborne Division, the so called "Cavalry" old units still ride horses (for show(s) in Kentucky/Tennessee areas. But their main job(s) are pilots of gunships/helicopters nowadays. (Apocalypse Now)
Same goes for the rider really, they are trained nowadays as Artillerymen, which i was in that Division also.

a middle solution to both make upgrade more expencive

 

[ClassicFrog]

They do refit ships, they do not upgrade them.
Basically the hull remains the same and with the exception of nowadays ships (where they just add some missile batteries to increase firepower) it was the hull that put limits to what main armament the ship could have while remaining a stable platform. For wooden ships the hull would also determine the sail and masts type.

So for medieval/renaissance era you could have slightly better, more accurate guns but no speed improvement, for ww1/ww2 ships you might have stuff like sonar, aa guns, torpedoes refitted but changing but guns would be very unlikely and literately take years to do so.

And being slightly sarcastic, i dont see any amount of effort, time or money to refit a wooden frigate so far that it becomes a diesel destroyer



And land troops, i guess i see the point. Still, one turn for a clubman to change into a rifleman or cavaleryman into a pilot ... bit too sudden. Perhaps if there was a delay ... say, if it would cost some money AND make unit unavailable for orders (like a galley on a reef or an unit chasing bandits events) then it would be more believable and add to immersion. It would be less likely to abuse the upgrade system

 

[ori]

in my view disabling unit upgrades or making them prohibitively expensive would a) remove most incentive to actually gain high experience units since you need to have the production for new units every tech step anyways, so it would be much better to just use them as cannon fodder before they obsolete and build more units and b) cause an undue burden for players that do not want to expand mostly militarily since they need to still focus on military production to keep somewhat safe - in essence in my view making the game less fun.