Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[BlueGenie]

True about "mini-merchants" but I was not thinking 1 for 1, more along the lines of 25% hammers (symbolising swords to plowshares where the former soldiers/units make an effort to give what they can back to the society).
The "gold" is from selling any equipment I think, which does not really sit well I think as the stone/wood/metals would need to be adjusted and remade to work as anything else.
I suppose, IF possible, that having the equipment of disbanded units being used (say 50% in this case) to aid in the building of Units, instead of merchants Buildings aid, like units not only disbanding but giving of old equipment and even training new recruits. Hmm, would be cool if each level of a disbanded unit could give +1XP to the next unit being built, up to a maximum of course (can see 50 units being disbanded, all built with 17XP each so level 4, or 200 XP boost on the next unit built).

Cheers

 

[Toffer90]

@TB: Some good tips there; thanks.

 

[MacCoise]

?

If that is the reason why then that is where the effort must be placed I would say. The same actually goes for Wonders. Start building a wonder and do not finish it and you get money, lots of money, back when it is finished elsewhere. I do not understand why really, except to make a player feel like he/she did not lose as much from x turns of building and not getting anything.

My suggestion on that one is that National wonders should give nothing (do they? not sure) while Great Wonders could give a pseudo building granting x amount of tourism (they were not the size or grandeur of teh Egypts first but this ancient nation also built pyramids) rather than a clump sum of money depending on hammers spent so far.
Of course I am not at all versed in how to make something like that, neither with the units nor with the wonders.

Cheers

Cheers

I would disagree with a lot of this. Great Wonders give huge benefits and should be unique. I don't understand why you get gold back when you fail. That should be the risk you take.

The only circumstances where a national wonder wouldn't be completed would be if you start building it, abandon it and then it become obsolete , no?

 

[MacCoise]

And as for disbanding units- it should be a disadvantage if anything. History is full of social and economic problem following demobilization of large numbers.

 

[BlueGenie]

I would disagree with a lot of this. Great Wonders give huge benefits and should be unique. I don't understand why you get gold back when you fail. That should be the risk you take.

The only circumstances where a national wonder wouldn't be completed would be if you start building it, abandon it and then it become obsolete , no?

That is what I am trying to say though, failed wonders should not give gold, or anything at all, really.
But I can also understand how some might feel they want something for their time spent, and the hammers spent, though, which is why my suggestion of a pseudo-building. Such a building would not give any of the benefits of a real wonder, only generate some tourism (after certain techs area unlocked too perhaps, like tourism techs).

Ideally the level of tourism given should depend on the hammers spent, and increase with each new failed wonder built in that city, but I can also see how that could be a nightmare to set up and code so only one "failed wonder build building" per city, a single generic one regardless of what wonder is attempted, regardless of hammer spent, amount of wonders attempted and failed, and only world wonders, never national wonders.

If you thought I meant a separate building for each wonder then you mistook my meaning Mac, that is not what I was suggesting.

Cheers

 

[MacCoise]

That is what I am trying to say though, failed wonders should not give gold, or anything at all, really.
But I can also understand how some might feel they want something for their time spent, and the hammers spent, though, which is why my suggestion of a pseudo-building. Such a building would not give any of the benefits of a real wonder, only generate some tourism (after certain techs area unlocked too perhaps, like tourism techs).

Ideally the level of tourism given should depend on the hammers spent, and increase with each new failed wonder built in that city, but I can also see how that could be a nightmare to set up and code so only one "failed wonder build building" per city, a single generic one regardless of what wonder is attempted, regardless of hammer spent, amount of wonders attempted and failed, and only world wonders, never national wonders.

If you thought I meant a separate building for each wonder then you mistook my meaning Mac, that is not what I was suggesting.

Cheers

I agree with not getting huge lump sums of gold when a Wonder is built somewhere else but I wouldn't have any pseudo replacements even just giving tourism. There are so many Wonders in C2C that we need pseudo ones. I can imagine your proposal on the level of tourism matching the level of investment being impossible to implement.

Maybe I am too literal but a Great Wonder should be wonderful and should be a big risk with a huge potential waste of time and resources.

 

[BlueGenie]

*laugh*
Again, not pseudo "ones" (as in many), only "one" (1, single, can not be more than 1) pseudo building, and it should in no way come even close to matching a real wonder, and only really for game play purposes as I can see why many dislike getting absolutely nothing so that will never be implemented. That is why I am at least suggesting an alternative that would be both possible and not too much.

Cheers

 

[Thunderbrd]

I get the idea of a pseudo wonder - the efforts went in a direction that produced a building - just one that wasn't as wondrous nor that history would as well remember. It's suggesting that the people weren't just sitting around twiddling their thumbs that whole time, nor were they building a structure where the design was in a spellbook and as soon as it had been built somewhere all other efforts to build the structure suddenly collapsed (or worse yet turned to pile of gold.) It suggests (with the MOST literal suggestion we've had in this discussion) that the building was real but kinda a failure as far as wonders go - much like many lesser known pyramid structures throughout the world. Many of those lesser pyramids are even in Egypt which suggests that perhaps there should even be some strategy to this where you could get multiple cities building the wonder so as to benefit from the numerous 'minor versions' when you complete the main.

While I love the idea of taking away any benefit from disbanding units and incompleting wonders and some of the alternatives here, this is so off my modding focus at the moment that I can't promise any kind of real modding plan to address these issues within the foreseeable future.

However, from a perspective of HOW it could be done...

We could make a tag for buildingclasses that indicate an alternative building type that is unlocked only if the main is built and may not be CHOSEN to be built but may replace the default building type in that class in the build queue of any cities that already have it queued and have spent some production towards it. Then those don't concern themselves with the global limit. Would take a little programming - could be interesting. Each 'minor wonder' would need to be created as a building specifically for that purpose but it could be a cool project for someone.

 

[meatball20]

Events are great except to few what about battle promotions as an event where theres a extra missionary or spy received from battle or even a new tank or lost tribe getting sent back to the capitol city or neartest. Just joking I now that risk board game has copys on all battle events considering theres no way I'l put in all every release. Whens next release I got a new computer just for this event.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The pyramids great wonder represents all 100+ pyramid and mastaba built in Ancient Egypt. The pyramids of Eastern Europe and North America are almost completely unknown, whereas those of Central America are almost as well known as those of Egypt.

If we were to attempt anything I would suggest that if you fail to get the wonder but have only completed 20% or less you get the usual money. 21-50% you get 75% of the money. 50%+ you get a cultural tourism building if you don't already have one or 60% of the money.
I don't think you should get a full wonderus building if you have not done a lot of work.

 

[BlueGenie]

About Failed Wonders:
Another suggestions I have is that the hammers, or a fraction thereof, spent on building towards a Wonder get saved in a "Wonder building Cache" that would only be drawn upon on building another wonder (any wonder). Thus saving some of the work without adding an inflated amount of gold to the civilization and also helping ensure that not just a few civilizations get all the wonders as that is still very likely (though mostly from being tech superior).

With the added benefit of possibly being easier to implement.

Cheers

 

[Toffer90]

Combining the animal tamer buildings into one more costly building called animal tamers. There are so darn many buildings that one almost never builds in the build list.
The tamed animal units could simply require the specific animal resource and the animal tamer building.

The same idea could perhaps work for the animal story buildings where each animal song gives the building + 1 culture but no education. There is a ridiculous amount of education to gain from these story buildings; but the combined one could still have +2 education regardless of the amount of animal songs.

Entertainment units could get a higher chance of successfully entertain in cities with the animal story teller building; instead of being able to build the animal stories.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Combining the animal tamer buildings into one more costly building called animal tamers.

I dislike the tamer buildings also but have not found a better way yet. This may be it

There are so darn many buildings that one almost never builds in the build list.

Good, there should be We have had a suggestion that you should be able to exclude some buildings from showing up for building in a particular city. That is currently beyond my abilities to do.

The tamed animal units could simply require the specific animal resource and the animal tamer building.

The building and the Song would work.

The same idea could perhaps work for the animal story buildings where each animal song gives the building + 1 culture but no education. There is a ridiculous amount of education to gain from these story buildings; but the combined one could still have +2 education regardless of the amount of animal songs.

Entertainment units could get a higher chance of successfully entertain in cities with the animal story teller building; instead of being able to build the animal stories.

The Stories are there to provide the Story upgrade in all cities. They are pseudo national wonders. It is currently wrong for the bears but they are next on my list.

The Myth and Song buildings are used to define which Story buildings you can build.

The Myth gives the Song building and the Song building makes the Myth a pseudo national wonder. Some of the Myth buildings also give a reduction in cost for building some other buildings, mostly religion ones eg Elephant and Hindu or Horse and Tengri. This latter is why the Myths and Songs don't upgrade to the Story buildings.

 

[charlesb96]

Is it possible to tie your military units total, (the standing army), to the total population of your empire. It does not make sense for a Grenada size empire to have a US size army, navy, airforce.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Is it possible to tie your military units total, (the standing army), to the total population of your empire. It does not make sense for a Grenada size empire to have a US size army, navy, airforce.

I don't know of any mods that do it. The main problem, as usual, is making the AI understand it.

I believe we have put a limit on the number of barbarian units in play.

 

[charlesb96]

Then how about having units needing a certain population of city before being built, like many buildings? If this is possible, then there needs to be a building for creating mercenaries, to have a larger army with mercenaries as well as standing army.

 

[charlesb96]

Suggestions for new music/soundtracks, for the ancient, classical eras. Soundtracks from movies like Troy, Gladiator, Empire, the series Spartacus, Julius Caesar. Anybody else have suggestions?

 

[charlesb96]

Has there ever been a mod, or is there a way, to have separate values for offense and defense?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Not in Civ IV as far as I know. That was a feature of Civ III. Maybe one of the early mods tried to implement it.

 

[ssmage]

Has there ever been a mod, or is there a way, to have separate values for offense and defense?

I know that Fall from Heaven has it...