Celt 80K culture strategy

[WeirdoJoker]

Playing Celts/Monarch/Small map vs. Aztecs, China, Egypt, Maya & Japan. I've never run into this problem before: building lots of culture, but I keep missing the GWs I want/need, and 50BC I'm behind in the culture race. Not terribly so, but the only thing I can think of is to build up military and go after Egypt and its cities & GWs. Any ideas in general on how to catch up when behind like that? As I said, I never had this problem at Chieftain, Warlord or Regent (and have not lost a culture game yet at the lower levels).

 

[tjs282]

GWs I want/need, and 50BC I'm behind in the culture race. Not terribly so, but the only thing I can think of is to build up military and go after Egypt and its cities & GWs.

You don't need many GWs for a civ-wide Culture win. And captured GWs don't give you Culture anyway (apart from the Temple of Artemis, indirectly from the FreeTemples -- so long as you don't learn Education).

It would be much more effective to put your shields into units (ideally Gallic Swords!), not Wonders. Because what you actually need is lots and lots and lots of closely-packed fully-irrigated Pop1-6 farms, each of which gets a Temple (+2), Lib (+3), Colosseum (+2) and Cathedral (+3), using one or a combination of forest-chops, unit-disbands, cash-rushing or whipping (one of the few things that the Feudalism gov is actually good for).

With, say, 80 towns giving (eventually) +10 Culture per town per turn, you will rack up the 80K in 100 turns. So yes to attacking Egypt, but for Cleo's land, not her Wonders.

 

[CKS]

What tjs282 said.

Also, assuming you haven't learned education yet, and that you are not planning to, the only great wonders you really want are the Temple of Artemis and the Pyramids. You want the ToA for the free temples (which will never expire if you don't learn education) and you want the Pyramids so that your population will regrow quickly after pop-rushing in Feudalism.

(Warning: don't learn feudalism until you are nearly done warring unless it looks like you'll need knights or cavalry. You want to have gallic swordsmen available rather than medieval infantry, since they are so much faster. After learning Feudalism, you can beeline for cavalry if you need them.)

If Egypt has these two wonders, you'll want to take them. Otherwise, you can take their land and fill it with your towns, and take the two wonders you want from whomever built them.

Warning: if you capture the Great Library along the way, make sure you raze it or give it away before accidentally learning education. Pay attention to what you give away if you are getting too close to the domination limit. I once accidentally gave away the town that had Bach's Cathedral in it.

For a culture win, you want to ICS everything except your core, and you want to ICS your core once you are done warring. Squeeze in every town you can. I'm usually too lazy to raze and resettle AI lands, but doing so may let you fit in a bunch more towns.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Also, assuming you haven't learned education yet, and that you are not planning to, the only great wonders you really want are the Temple of Artemis and the Pyramids.

Am past Education already, and unfortunately I was unable to get either Pyramids (which I normally want) or ToA (which I wanted this game, but not normally). The only Wonder I've been able to get so far is SoZ, so I've got a bunch of AC hanging around - which is good, because no saltpeter for Cavs.

(Warning: don't learn feudalism until you are nearly done warring unless it looks like you'll need knights or cavalry. You want to have gallic swordsmen available rather than medieval infantry, since they are so much faster. After learning Feudalism, you can beeline for cavalry if you need them.)

Funny, I was surprised to see at one point that I had a choice to construct MI or GS, which did not make sense to me, but I built some more GS when I had the chance.

If Egypt has these two wonders, you'll want to take them. Otherwise, you can take their land and fill it with your towns, and take the two wonders you want from whomever built them.

I don't remember, but ToA is already obsolete. Stealing Pyramids would be nice, though.

Warning: if you capture the Great Library along the way, make sure you raze it or give it away before accidentally learning education. Pay attention to what you give away if you are getting too close to the domination limit. I once accidentally gave away the town that had Bach's Cathedral in it.

While I'm thinking about it, how does one sell or give away a building? I tried last game (I don't remember why) but couldn't figure it out.

 

[justanick]

Funny, I was surprised to see at one point that I had a choice to construct MI or GS, which did not make sense to me, but I built some more GS when I had the chance.

The sense is to give you an option to trigger your golden age. Once this is done GS are no longer available in favour of MI.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

The sense is to give you an option to trigger your golden age. Once this is done GS are no longer available in favour of MI.

Interesting. I haven't had my GA yet (and have occasionally had a game without one). However, I'm already in the early Industrial Age (just got Steam Power & need to hook up my 2 Coal), so it's unlikely a GS would win much of anything anyway at this point.

 

[CKS]

To sell a building, be in the town view. Right click on the building in the list to the left and select Sell. You can't sell free buildings (like barracks from Sun Tzu's Art of War), aquaducts, hospitals, or wonders.

In the early industrial age, I suspect the AI still have plenty of obsolete units around, so you probably could use a GS to start a golden age if you wanted. (I've had warriors attacking my modern armor before.)

At this point in the game, I would beeline replaceable parts and go to war with artillery and infantry or guerrillas, whichever you have. Take enough land so that you can have at least 50 towns spaced a tile apart, or more if you like being at war. Then build like crazy. You can switch to feudalism if you want to pop-rush or you can learn nationalism and draft-rush and cash-rush. I'd turn off research and use all my cash for rushing. (In my experience, I never can get to the Internet soon enough for the free research labs to be helpful.)

 

[justanick]

Interesting. I haven't had my GA yet (and have occasionally had a game without one). However, I'm already in the early Industrial Age (just got Steam Power & need to hook up my 2 Coal), so it's unlikely a GS would win much of anything anyway at this point.

Cavalry has defence 3. Bomb it down to 1 HP, and a 4/4 GS will have almost certain victory.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

You can't sell free buildings (like barracks from Sun Tzu's Art of War), aquaducts, hospitals, or wonders.

Ah, that explains it. I had wanted to sell a hospital I had inadvertently built, because I kept growing beyond capacity and beyond my need for more workers or settlers.

At this point in the game, I would beeline replaceable parts and go to war with artillery and infantry or guerrillas, whichever you have.

At this point, every time I load I'm not only getting DoW by the Aztecs again (I really hate them), but they're destroying my border towns easily. It's bad enough that I'm considering starting the game over (or just replaying the map) rather than sit around and watch myself get pummeled.

 

[tjs282]

I keep missing the GWs I want/need, and 50BC I'm behind in the culture race.

Am past Education already

However, I'm already in the early Industrial Age (just got Steam Power & need to hook up my 2 Coal)

Did you carry on playing between these posts? And/or are you playing with Accelerated Production switched on again?

Otherwise, I'm having difficulty understanding how this is possible?!?

I don't remember, but ToA is already obsolete. Stealing Pyramids would be nice, though.

Who built it?

At this point, every time I load I'm not only getting DoW by the Aztecs again (I really hate them), but they're destroying my border towns easily. It's bad enough that I'm considering starting the game over (or just replaying the map) rather than sit around and watch myself get pummeled.

If Egypt built the Pyramids, then can you wangle Cleo into fighting Monty with you (or better, for you)?

Spend that 20 turns fighting only a holding action against the Aztecs while building an SOD ready to roll over Egypt after the alliance is over (or when she's used up all her excess offensive units and signs a PT with Monty, whichever happens first).

That would be 2 birds with one stone: weakening both opponents, and leaving Cleo's Wonders ripe for the plucking.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Did you carry on playing between these posts? And/or are you playing with Accelerated Production switched on again?

Otherwise, I'm having difficulty understanding how this is possible?!?

Yes, AP is on. However, I think I moved much faster than usual even so. The others seemed to be research quickly, and not only was I as well, but trading around sped up the movement between ages.

Who built it?

As it turns out ... the Mayans, who despite a Pangaea map are on a large island to the south.

If Egypt built the Pyramids, then can you wangle Cleo into fighting Monty with (or better) for you?

At best, with, if only because Monty seems bent on attacking me no matter what. Unfortunately, this means I get creamed to start (weak military relative to him) and that'll set me back some. I haven't had a chance to play lately, but considering abandoning the game and starting the same map over ... not a bad map & would like to play it better.

 

[Theov]

Yes, AP is on. However, I think I moved much faster than usual even so. The others seemed to be research quickly, and not only was I as well, but trading around sped up the movement between ages.

As it turns out ... the Mayans, who despite a Pangaea map are on a large island to the south.

At best, with, if only because Monty seems bent on attacking me no matter what. Unfortunately, this means I get creamed to start (weak military relative to him) and that'll set me back some. I haven't had a chance to play lately, but considering abandoning the game and starting the same map over ... not a bad map & would like to play it better.

Maybe share the map/4000bc savegame?
Yeah I found that Cultural victories end up being a blood bath eventually.
Always keep a string offensive military ready. Even if it was to criple the AI culture.