[C3C] Celts - Emperor - Random Tech

[vmxa]

Does the Flintlock patch correct this, or just the composition of AI armies? I've had the AI attack wounded armies all the time, or bomb them down first and then attack. But I've never had a chance to test whether they would like throw ten longbowmen at a full strength Knight army.

The AI will not attack a green health knight army with even tanks in my experience. I don't know what the logic is, but I have had a 4 man pike army killed with tanks. It was just covering workers. Not sure, if that was a factor. It only happened once, long time ago. So armies of less than knights I only use to sit on cites to get pop to pacify, after the AI has cavs.

The patch could change AI actions with regard to armies, if they get artillery ( be it cats, treb or whatever) in range. I had it attack an army with trebs, but it only had two, so not an issue. The AI use of "arty" can give you some new looks, but in the main I think it hurts them more than helps. Then send them out with lack of protection (not enough good units) and end up just gifting me free "arty". The shields spend on units probably would have been better than just feeding me.

Though it was fun at first to get shocked by seeing my units being bombarded in the open or in town. The net effect is I took more cats and they did no better. Just my .02.

Edited: car to cats

 

[Spoonwood]

Armies on the coast that can be bombarded by ships are the same as bombers, can be weakened till they will be attacked.

Oh I remember that now. Those frigates that the AIs build on pangea look useless... until they're not.

Though never had a cav army of even yellow health attacked, unless it get bombed to red.

I had something like that happen when landing on an island with a large amount of spears and archers. I made some note in my write-up for my first Sid histographic game on record. I think I had all spots with my units covered with armies, and there were enough units for one or two of them to eventually randomly move and attack the army, as other units were just shuffling around it seemed. It's a different sort of case though, because the AIs basically don't have a possibility I think of targeting towards something else, so they just end up moving around in some way which has a pattern as mysterious as how they move around when they are at peace. If not more mysterious.

Attacking too many times and dropping to red. Or just getting unlikely on a sequence of rolls. Or attacking something with more defensive power. Or attacking a serious capital, like on a high level capital in the industrial ages without some way that works to draw units out of there, which I have no clue about such as viable as an idea. Yea... armies are safest when they have a backup army that can charge in as a defender when that happens. Sometimes that backup army is needed, sometimes it's not though from what I can tell.

 

[Toxicman007]

I could be wrong here but I seem to remember someone on these forums once claimed the AI will not attack a fortified veteran Infantry (except in a city).

 

[Ruin]

My suggestion of adding the knight for the armies was not based on prevention on defense so much as staying alive on offense. A common way to lose any army is to attack too many times and dropping it to red. That knight would obviate that to some degree, as long as you do not insist upon pushing all the time. I noted several screens where an army was red, it not only could place that army in jeopardy, it also means a longer wait to get it back in action.

All excellent points, I've played a ways ahead of where I've been posting, but I don't want to spoil by telling whether I followed this advice or not and/or what the result was. I will reflect back to your sage words at the appropriate juncture in the story however.

 

[vmxa]

I could be wrong here but I seem to remember someone on these forums once claimed the AI will not attack a fortified veteran Infantry (except in a city).

That is about the size of it.

 

[Ruin]

645 AD

In view of the ongoing riots, my domestic advisor questions my plan to put unemployed Scandinavians to work developing Gunpowder.

But although many of these impromptu researchers succumb to saltpeter poisoning or the explosion of their less-successful experiments, a breakthrough is made.

Eagerly contact my science gamblers... and learn that we'll be studying Music Theory next

I am unable to hide my disappointment.

Sell India Education for 7 GPT and 1 gold. Still not completely convinced by @Spoonwood 's arguments, but at least he and Gandhi are both Polite with me.

650 AD

Attack the last Viking mainland city, Copenhagen. Its fortifications, consisting of variously colored interlocking bricks, are aesthetically pleasing but offer little protection to its defenders.

Make peace with Ragnar, taking the city of Tromso, 1 GPT and 31 gold, and exiling him to the island city of New Beijing. Spend more gold than he has in his entire treasury just to examine his new quarters and have a good laugh.

Kept my word about preventing him from getting Berserkers.

Sell Gunpowder to the Mayans for Wines and 34 GPT after ascertaining that they don't have Saltpeter.

 

[Spoonwood]

In view of the ongoing riots, my domestic advisor questions my plan to put unemployed Scandinavians to work developing Gunpowder.

I've done this too, but often questioned the utility of it.

Stabilizing a capital with 18 food in the box for most turns and then finally letting it have 2 more food on the turn when my citizens learned a tech, I used what's the big picture. There was still 18 food in the box. That suggests that commerce is calculated before food. I think Lanzelot left some notes about the production order a while back.

Checking with the autosaves my empire has 73 gold before learning the technology, and 74 gold after learning the technology, again using "what's the big picture" and checking in the city screen.

Using the autosaves again, now with +5 gold coming from taxes instead of ... why not just check from taxmen?

Going back to the earlier autosave, and now using a tax collector instead of having the city grow, there's 73 gold before the technology gets learned, there's now 76 gold for the empire after learning the technology, with no more food in the box.

Loading the earlier autosave again, now having all tax collectors, there's 80 gold for the empire with the same total amount of food in the box. The -3 food projected hasn't happened yet.

Loading some other 4000 BC save, and doing scientist only research we get Ceremonial Burial down to a projection of 2 turns. Then I tell them to hire another scientist with starvation projected. Ceremonial Burial gets learned and using what's the big picture, I see 2 scientists still at work.

So, using scientists with starvation about to occur can have an effect. Scientist production occurs before food, following the commerce before food sub-model, if Lanzelot's model has commerce before food, which unfortunately I don't remember if it does. Is model a suitable term here?

 

[Ruin]

I've done this too, but often questioned the utility of it.

I'm intentionally trying to starve down the foreign population (even though culture flips are off in this game, I'm still treating captured cities like they are on - minus the counterintuitive parking of troops outside the city to retake). When Great Library was active, or when I'm already at 1 turn, I make the foreign citizens tax collectors, otherwise scientists (until I get police and engineers).

I don't know if it made a difference in this particular instance, but when I have a bunch of captured cities in games, I can often get a tech a turn or two faster.

As for starving my own cities to get a tech a turn faster, I would only do this rarely and only with outlying cities. (I do use non-productive cities as specialist farms, but still allow them to grow)

So, I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just not sure if you're advocating something different given the above.

 

[vmxa]

One thing to note is that making all the pop scientist, except two, could cause a problem. The two are not happy nor content, so I would have made at least some of the others jokers to get rid of unhappy pop. In fact I have been burnt by greed. I normally would have made them all jokers and not try to get beakers or gold from any. I know you have disabled flips and it is not a concern in this game.

edit: changed make to made

 

[Ruin]

660 AD

In world news, the Chinese city of Yankchow, south of Cuello, was razed by the Mayans at some point in the last 50 years. Also the Hittite cities of Tyrana and Adana are now Sumerian, though both cities' namesakes were long ago rescued by the Barfinder.

I send a messenger to New Beijing to notify Ragnar that henceforth I declare myself king of Scandinavia, and have copyrighted the word "Viking".

Begin moving our siege engines southwards towards the Chinese border, anticipating a border outrage a century hence.

Sell the Indians Gunpowder for 12 GPT and 19 gold.

Fail to interest the Mayans in liquor, trinkets, or smallpox-infested blankets, so I sell them Saltpeter for 8 GPT. Can't see the harm in it.

 

[Ruin]

665 AD

Japan and Babylon have signed a peace treaty. Finally convinced that the Bablyonians are real by counting civs. Not sure why the Espionage screen is not showing a "Not Met" for them.

670 AD

Entremont is looking hearty. Building Leonardo's Workshop. Otherwise not sure why I took this screenshot.

Still doing my GPT for gold thing. I can get 18-1 from the Indians.

Rush the Glevum library. Didn't keep an exact kill count vs. the Scandos, but it was approximately 50-2, putting the lifetime Celtic/Viking record at something like 80-3.

(Luckily, bland turns coincide with RL work so please forgive a few lackluster posts.)

 

[Ruin]

675 AD

Prince William contacts me.

Me: Let's make a Dutch agreement to go Dutch with your Dutch uncle and give him a Dutch treat. We can smoke a Dutch and play double Dutch in a Dutch Oven.

He tolerates my tomfoolery because he's desperate for a certain tech. Ironic that he's Cautious with me, but meanwhile so uncautious in other aspects of his affairs...

Me: Sorry, we haven't learned Penicillin yet. How about Monotheism for 24 gold? You could try erecting some Cathedrals instead of, uh, other things.

680 AD

Isabella is still Furious at me but will give me 13 GPT and 30 gold for gunpowder. TBH neither they or the Mayans have horses (we have 5), or know Metallurgy, so I'm not really concerned if they want to make musketmen.

Hurry a Library in Deva. Worried about Glevum becoming the next Dien Bien Phu if war breaks out on the Chinese border.

They have an average military compared to us, which is impressive considering that we're a monarchy, have 3x as many cities, and are paying 40 GPT in unit support.

 

[Ruin]

690 AD

Our warrior exploring Exile Island discovers a Japanese city - which looks to soon become a Mayan city.

The Trebuchets reach Caractorium, accompanied/obstructed by a dozen or so Japanese units, who hopefully don't have any mischief in mind.

Found the city of Butting.

Ragnar's fondness for irrigating grassland may have hindered his military production, but it will be great for rebuilding the population once we finish ethnic cleansing. SMH at the number of wasted tiles in former Scandinavian lands. Surely he'll be less profligate with the 3 remaining to him.

 

[vmxa]

Every time I look at your mini map I start thinking about going for 250x250 map. Then I regain my senses and move along. So much work, its seeing all those mountains that makes me not want to do it. So many workers turn to road them.

 

[Ruin]

Every time I look at your mini map I start thinking about going for 250x250 map. Then I regain my senses and move along. So much work, its seeing all those mountains that makes me not want to do it. So many workers turn to road them.

Funny, but true. Tellingly in my current demigod attempt (Mayans), I made sure to select standard and 5 billion. But it's good for my audience. You'd rather your favorite movie be 2.5 hrs rather than 90 minutes, right?

BTW in my contnuation of baseball/civ player analogies you are Tommy Lasorda, though you can be Casey Stengel (or Tony La Russa if you insist on being still alive)

 

[vmxa]

How about Sparky Anderson (when he coached the Tigers, not the Reds). I have not watched baseball since the 1987 strike. I said then I was done with the game. Tommy had a lot of great quotes that Jim Healy use to play on his radio show in LA. Back when I still followed the game.

 

[Ruin]

Went to spring training when I was little. Got Tommy Lasorda's autograph and he even took a picture with us - but he made my dad hold his beer (it was 9 AM) so it wouldn't be in the photo. But you can be Sparky. He is great too!

 

[Ruin]

700 AD

Establish the creatively named town of Shoreville, and the colony of "Colony, Celts, Furs" on the Scandinavian seacoast. Build New Entremont (yet another sign that my kids weren't around to christen my new holdings with profane or nonsensical epithets). Stavenger has been garrisoned with a thousand medieval infantry, though they are not tasked with repressing the mackerel-swilling natives, but rather to stand in front of any Japanese or other foreign boats with over-exuberant designs on unclaimed coastal tiles.

The Barfinder passes Zwolle (Dutch for Throbbing Swollen Tundra City on the Soaking Wet Seacoat) and discovers China, meaning that if we had sailed the other way we could have discovered the other continent 1000 years and 10 galleys ago.

My siege engines reach Richborough. A wizened Chinese spy rushes to report the southward movement of my vast armies to Mao.

"Ye have ever been a herald of woe. I name thee Lathspell," he croaks. "Stormcrow, I shalt call thou. Ill news and ill news is an ill guest as they say."

"Open war lies before you. You are with Brennus or against him. None may live now as they have lived, and few shall keep what they call their own."

Mao has the doomsayer executed. The Celts have always been friendly, and their decision to move hundreds of thousands of troops into the literate and religious frontier towns of Deva, Arausio, Jaen, and Pepsiman is no doubt little more than a coincidence.

 

[need my speed]

I, too, watched Lord of the Rings yesterday.

 

[Ruin]

I, too, watched Lord of the Rings yesterday.

Actually I just reread the books, and now I'm reading them to my kids as bedtime story. Most nights... Not sure whether I should be proud or ashamed that they prefer "Civ Story."

We're still on Fellowship tho. But I like that part and occasionally just yell out "Lathspell, Stormcrow, Doomsayer," usually at one of the dogs.