Challenge-VIII-10

[bcool]

Okay, I never did get the diplomatic victory vote to come up.

I have Zara at +7, so what am I missing? I got my population below 75% the turn before the vote came up, but the vote never was called. Is the requirement different with the UN compared to the AP?

 

[Manco Capac]

deleted.
My comment was based on previous bcool's screenshot.

 

[Ozbenno]

Okay, I never did get the diplomatic victory vote to come up.

I have Zara at +7, so what am I missing? I got my population below 75% the turn before the vote came up, but the vote never was called. Is the requirement different with the UN compared to the AP?

Yes it is, the vote required for UN victory is 65%, you have to be below 65% yourself and have someone else vote for you.

 

[cas]

Hmm. I was still trying this with OCC. With Zara you get +8 with religion and +5 from civics (instead of +7/+4 as I thought from the Civ guide). That offsets the -8 and -3 from war / DoW. to +2. IF Zara also has +2 base, that would be +4.

So that just leaves getting the +4 from shared war. But I couldn't get that +diplo modifier to kick in. I'm guessing you have to be at peace with the civ to get the +diplo from shared war ? Or are there some other calculations involved on the number of turns needed ?

I didn't test it extensively yet, but I played an OCC game to the situation I wanted by 1400AD. I was on one isalnd and ahead in tech. Zara and Rags were the only two AI left and on an island with each other. They were at war forever. I met them late in the game and obviously immediately went to war with each. Zara about 50 turns before Rags.

I stayed in 'shared war' for 50+ turns, but didn't receive ANY +diplo from shared war from either Zara or Rags.

Anyone know the mechanics of shared war ? Because if that bonus is possible with AW, then the OCC win is possible, IMO.

cas

 

[bcool]

With the Always War option selected you don't get the shared war bonuses.

You can win the game if it isn't OCC. I don't think you can win if it is OCC but that requirement was removed.

 

[cas]

With the Always War option selected you don't get the shared war bonuses.

You can win the game if it isn't OCC. I don't think you can win if it is OCC but that requirement was removed.

Thanks. I know the OCC requirement was removed. I have no interest in the game with liberate cheese methods. I was just experimenting with OCC and I learned a few things, so all good.

Can get Zara to +4 with AP, but that goes away after I build UN. Still not enough without events...need +6.

I have to test one more thing before I give up OCC. Is there a way to tell which leader the AI will choose to run a colony ? Or is that random ?

cas

 

[Manco Capac]

I have to test one more thing before I give up OCC. Is there a way to tell which leader the AI will choose to run a colony ? Or is that random ?

I thought it was generally geographically related and now I revoke what I assumed. Some leaders have non random and definite leaders in charge for the colony while others have no preference.

If Roman or Greece empire in control, then you get Byzantium. It's far the best AI in charge of a colony for Diplo victory and the initial plusmods of +10 almost nullify the war penalty.

Where to find info about colony spawning: Check your XML files in BTS section, find in civilizations subfolder an XML called CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml and make a fast search for "derivativeCiv".

Indeed, american and arabian civilizations are common ones. Some leaders have no preference and there the RNG gets to work.

In quote.

 

[bcool]

Thanks. I know the OCC requirement was removed. I have no interest in the game with liberate cheese methods. I was just experimenting with OCC and I learned a few things, so all good.

Can get Zara to +4 with AP, but that goes away after I build UN. Still not enough without events...need +6.

I have to test one more thing before I give up OCC. Is there a way to tell which leader the AI will choose to run a colony ? Or is that random ?

cas

The leader you get when you liberate a colony seems to be random with perhaps a few exceptions (like English might get an American leader). But in general it seems to be random based on my testing. edit: it seems Tachy has more detailed info.

You can't liberate a colony running OCC unless I'm missing something. (if that was what you were planning)

You can win the game by liberating a colony without the city liberation cheese. (unless you consider liberating a colony liberation cheese)

 

[Manco Capac]

Here I attached the said XML file. Now just search for derivative and you got info.

 

[cas]

You can't liberate a colony running OCC unless I'm missing something. (if that was what you were planning)

No, I was referring to allowing the AI to create a colony and seeing if we get the same -diplo mods for DoW. I 99.9% expect it to be the same as a starting AI, but I was just curious since I rarely run into colonies in my games.

cas

ps...thanks for the info, Tachywaxon. I may xml dive. I was hoping someone already did since that isn't my forte.

 

[Manco Capac]

Promise, it takes 10 sec to get the info.

 

[WastinTime]

I have no interest in the game with liberate cheese methods.

cas

I having trouble understanding this viewpoint. EVERY game has this same feature available for use. Are you planning to never play any more Diplo games? Or are you saying you only want to play Diplo games that are so easy that no one would bother to use the cheesy methods?

 

[cas]

I having trouble understanding this viewpoint. EVERY game has this same feature available for use.

Yes, you are right. Every game of Civ has cheese methods that can be abused. I dislike many features of Civ4 that others find 'fun' because 'fun' is relative...as is what someone considers 'cheese'. But overall I really like this game, so I play it if the particular game features seem 'fun' to me. Not sure why that is hard to understand.

I'm not degrading your suggestion for this game or the setup. You contributed a suggestion to the moderator for a Challenge series game and others may find it very fun to use liberation. I don't. I like reading about the mechanics of how it works, though.

Are you planning to never play any more Diplo games? Or are you saying you only want to play Diplo games that are so easy that no one would bother to use the cheesy methods?

meh, this part of your comment is silly. If I think the particular game setup looks fun, I try it. If not, I don't. Sometimes trying to acheive fastest victory with a particular flavor of cheese is fun to me. Just not in this case.


I doubt very many people would find my laborious OCC attempts in this game fun, but I do...so I've tried to exhaust the possibilities of an OCC win while learning a couple of things.
cas

 

[WastinTime]

@cas: I'm so happy you're playing OCC! (cus otherwise I would have to )

I still don't think you understand my point though. Liberation can also be used to win Challenge 3, but for some reason, people are considering this a problem only with Challenge 10. See what I'm saying. That's why I don't think it's silly to ask if you are going to boycott Challenge 3 also.

 

[cas]

@cas: I'm so happy you're playing OCC! (cus otherwise I would have to )

I still don't think you understand my point though. Liberation can also be used to win Challenge 3, but for some reason, people are considering this a problem only with Challenge 10. See what I'm saying. That's why I don't think it's silly to ask if you are going to boycott Challenge 3 also.

Challenge 3 doesn't require liberation to submit a game. Challenge 10 does...unless a new/unknown strategy is found.

That's the difference.

And I don't mind at all. Variety in the challenge is a good thing. I'll pick & choose which games I want to attempt.

cas

ps...I'll be lucky to win challenge 3, much less worry about the best date.

 

[WastinTime]

Ok, so I used the multi-liberate just because I never tried it before. Then I went back and replayed the end and won without using it. I still couldn't do OCC because I did need to liberate a colony for the +10. But that's not a new trick.

Once I had +5 religion, +5 shared civic to go with that (and -11 war) I earned their vote.
I think it took 10 turns to get those to go +1 each...so ~40 turns will do.

 

[vranasm]

I am sure that the answer to my question is dug somewhere up here, but I couldn't find consistant way of answering the question I have, so beg your pardon and please someone try to answer it so I can understand.


The question:

If I settle big enough island with 3 cities, I can then liberate the island as new AI which normally is my vassal. What happens in AW scenario? (Do I get vassals, or they appear in war with me but +10 for liberating as colony?)

Can the game be won with preparing multiple islands with 3+ cities and liberating them close to the voting?

 

[WastinTime]

I am sure that the answer to my question is dug somewhere up here, but I couldn't find consistant way of answering the question I have, so beg your pardon and please someone try to answer it so I can understand.


The question:

If I settle big enough island with 3 cities, I can then liberate the island as new AI which normally is my vassal. What happens in AW scenario? (Do I get vassals, or they appear in war with me but +10 for liberating as colony?)

Can the game be won with preparing multiple islands with 3+ cities and liberating them close to the voting?

You can liberate all the 2+ city islands you want.

The vassal is immediately freed and you declare war on them. You will have +10, but also -3 War spoils our relationship and -3 you declared war which grow to -8 and -3 max.

(see my post above for getting their vote.)

 

[vranasm]

^^ thanks

 

[Manco Capac]

Very cunning choice, WastinTime. I was thinking of a certain philosophical leader, but Augustus has its merit!
Faster wonders (Mids, Oracle, U.N.!) and cheaper settlers (faster to create a colony)...and not the least the preats (but that one I'm not sure if it was used given you have to tech IW).

AND its derivative civilization is byzantium...so Justinian 100% of the cases!
He likes theocracy (under AW he will convert to it asap and no waiting time) and he is a religious zealot.

Such an attractive leader for sure!

I wonder if I can do good with another leader.
Indeed, all I need to do is to use DanF's exploit as you did to make up the possible bad leader I may spawn.