Challenge-X-02

[Ozbenno]

While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we are running a series of ten games called the Hall of Fame Challenge Series. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings of one of the games will be counted towards the Challenge.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!
(*) Games must be played using the >> BUFFY MOD 3.19.003 <<
(*) Games to be submitted via the >> Civ IV Hall of Fame Website <<
(*) New players, please >> register << using your CFC forum name​

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Space Colony (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Prince
• Starting Era: Ancient
• Map Size: Standard
• Map Type: Lakes
• Speed: Normal
• Required: No Tribal Villages, No Random Events
• Civ: Arabia (Saladin)
• Opponents: Must include America (Lincoln), Germany (Frederick), Inca (Huayna Capac), India (Gandhi), Netherlands (Willem Van Oranje), Rome (Augustus Caesar)
• Version: 3.19.003
• Date: 10th February to 10th June 2013

Must not play as Inca.
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

 

[lymond]

Question for the experts: Are Permanent Alliances worth it at this level? PAs are a feature I've very rarely ever used anyway.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

On prince? Nope. You won't get anything useful out of PA below very high difficulties; better to just take the land and run away yourself.

PA can help on deity if you can latch onto a monster. I'm not sure it's that useful below deity and will only sometimes be useful to finish date there.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I'd assume you are better off going off and killing the other civs until you were near the dom limit...

 

[neilmeister]

This was a long game, or at least it felt like it.

Added a few extra AI as I thought they might help, Mansa in the end was useless. Killed off 3 or 4 AI in the BC's to carve out a reasonable empire.

Misjudged my golden ages at the end, as such I launched the spaceship with 14 turns left of golden age.... not ideal to say the least.

Had a crash to desktop, and also heard this question for the first time ever "what does this button do?". My 7 year old said this as she held down my power button!!!!!

 

[Manco Capac]

How is it long? Wow, Saladin just like the game I'm running and cost me >30 hours.

 

[neilmeister]

Damn you shulec, my 1 turn nemesis!!!

 

[neilmeister]

Wow Pollina, blew us away by more than 20 turns!

 

[Pollina]

Wow Pollina, blew us away by more than 20 turns!

Well, I honestly hope that it won’t be long until someone comes and blows away my date. It’s getting way too quiet here.

It was an interesting game. Without FIN, ORG, The Great Lighthouse and with only a few rivers, balancing expansion, war and economy was much harder than in the usual low level HOF space game with some great leader on a great maptype. Even with flat world wrap killing more than one AI early on felt like too much of a drain to the economy.

I permitted myself an initial warrior rush that got me a great (holy) city, but probably cost me the CS slingshot (went for currency instead). Otherwise, no early kill, kill, kill this time and instead more focus on peaceful expansion and some key wonders to get the economy going. No early worker steals either, as I missed them all by a turn.

I eventually did most of the warring with medieval units, but stopped too early. Went the State Property route, as everyone else so far. My late game was a mess. I’m sure anyone could take my 1000 AD save and get a 1550 AD or earlier finish out of it, just by building more workers and infrastructure and continuing the war a bit longer.

 

[iggymnrr]

I’m sure anyone could take my 1000 AD save and get a 1550 AD or earlier finish out of it

The save indicates that the tech pace is barely < 2 turns per tech. Count the remaining techs and the tally will represent the maximum number of turns by which the game can be improved since the maximum tech pace is 1 tech per turn.

 

[bcool]

I have to thank Pollina, you pushed me to explore a better strategy for space games. Perhaps Pollina can do even better than 1535 AD.

I didn't do a warrior rush but I did early chariot rushes (on prince) sometimes you can catch the AI with only warriors.

And I aggressively pursued guilds after getting Oxford up, then powered the push for communism and biology with a camel archer lead conquest of the world.

I made some mistakes I think, I accepted Mansa as a peace vassal which isn't too bad by itself. He did tech divine right and rifling for me, but he did build the MoM. I tried to get an AI to beat him up so he would drop me, but that didn't work. So I couldn't capture the MoM. That was a bummer. But I was able to use 5 8-turn golden ages at the end of the game to get me far enough to launch.

Also a "mistake" -I got a low odds great prophet which delayed the academy in my capital quite a few turns. I built the confu holy city with the prophet and an academy with the 3rd great person. The first great person I believe I bulbed education, but I might be mistaken.

I'm wondering if this game can be improved on. Perhaps a very early rush to communism but then a slightly later switch to corporations might make sense. Probably not. I had been convinced early corporations beat state property but it doesn't seem like that now.

 

[iggymnrr]

^
A couple levels lower I've been intentionally going prophet before academy with Asoka.

 

[Pollina]

I have to thank Pollina, you pushed me to explore a better strategy for space games.

Isn’t that what these HOF competitions are for? Play a game, get beaten by someone, think of new ways and strategies to improve your game, play again. I love all that, it’s what makes HOF so addictive. So thank you, actually. I enjoy a good challenge, and I will certainly try again (assuming I somehow find the time).

I accepted Mansa as a peace vassal

I always leave vassals off for space games. What is the advantage of having Mansa as a vassal? Cheaper trades? Extra happiness boost? Are those more useful than a few extra cities for yourself? I see that you use them even on terra maps, despite the colony maintenance that is added by “vassals on”. Am I missing something? Are they really so powerful?

The save indicates that the tech pace is barely < 2 turns per tech. Count the remaining techs and the tally will represent the maximum number of turns by which the game can be improved since the maximum tech pace is 1 tech per turn.

Still trying to figure out how to get to one tech per turn earlier (or at all) with state property. Spamming workers before I really need them might be one way, but that’s totally counterintuitive for a minimalist like myself. Just can’t get out of my way, even if I try.

 

[bcool]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcool
I accepted Mansa as a peace vassal
I always leave vassals off for space games. What is the advantage of having Mansa as a vassal? Cheaper trades? Extra happiness boost? Are those more useful than a few extra cities for yourself? I see that you use them even on terra maps, despite the colony maintenance that is added by &#8220;vassals on&#8221;. Am I missing something? Are they really so powerful?

Well vassals are good for a few things...
1) You can tell them what to tech for you (so Mansa teched divine right and rifling for me for example because I told him too)
2) Having Vassals give you +1 happiness (so you can keep an AI at 1 city and get +1 happiness for all your cities for free)
3) They are a distraction for the other AI you go to war, making those conquests slightly easier.
4) You can trade with your vassals (but that rarely matters for a prince level game except for the techs you have them research for you)

You make a good point that vassals on a Terra map might not be worth it. I admit to not thinking about all of the factors sometimes.

 

[iggymnrr]

Still trying to figure out how to get to one tech per turn earlier (or at all) with state property. Spamming workers before I really need them might be one way, but that’s totally counterintuitive for a minimalist like myself. Just can’t get out of my way, even if I try.

It takes a fair number of cities. I find that settler spam and/or conquest induces worker paranoia. I just experimented with Asoka on warlord and got out at 1390 AD. At 400 BC I had a dozen cities. By 200 AD I had 29. Worker paranoia took over big time. Shrine first, academy later. Chopping cheap CHs and missionaries is sort of like having a mini corp from the get go. By the time I had temples up cities had grown big enough to punch out a couple more workers often before a granary was finished. Its like backwards whipping. Instead of whipping and regrowing simply grow and then stop growth for a bit. I did whip a smattering of settlers. (Spiritual.)

I also skipped alphabet and sprang for a late Oxford too. The AI is so slow teching that multipliers on beaker generators drops sharply due to lack of trade opportunities. Might as well take the mini corp and spam away.