Chosen of Esus

[Sarisin]

I'm sorry if this has been brought up before, but does anyone else think the AI is overdoing this build a little?

In my game EVERY AI civ has this thing going. As Flauros and Sheelba have huge civs, they have over 100 turns.

One thing it really hurts is the HN Shadow game I like to play as you can only go after units in the cities which are often quite strong.

It just seems to me that it is overused and maybe there should be a limit on how often it can be built.

 

[xienwolf]

Overproduction of rituals is typically a sign of bad AI processes elsewhere. So should get solved as wel refine the AI's opinion of various buildings and units. At high difficulties it will show the worst though, because the production bonuses the AI get mean that they will meet the "I need to have XXX units and YYY Buildings" markers earlier, so then they get bored enough to do rituals.

 

[MaxAstro]

This is not entirely a bad thing IMO; Chosen of Esus is one of the main benefits of CoE for non-founders. It's certainly vastly more powerful than Light of Lugus. I see it as a valid strategy to keep building it as it runs out, just as a human player, so until the stockpiling gets excessive (100 turns is a lot...), I can see it not being an entirely poor choice for the AI, especially since only Esus civs will be doing it.

 

[Sarisin]

This is not entirely a bad thing IMO; Chosen of Esus is one of the main benefits of CoE for non-founders. It's certainly vastly more powerful than Light of Lugus. I see it as a valid strategy to keep building it as it runs out, just as a human player, so until the stockpiling gets excessive (100 turns is a lot...), I can see it not being an entirely poor choice for the AI, especially since only Esus civs will be doing it.

I'm not sure I understand you last comment MA. ALL the civs are using this, not just the Esus civs. I have it in my build menu, but frankly, just like the Nox Noctis, I hate that thing and don't choose to build it.

Are you saying that only civs who have CoE can use it? If so, I don't think that is correct based on my game. If that was the case, I would say fine, and you wouldn't see every civ with invisible units for many turns - just those who have adopted CoE, but don't have the holy city and cannot build the Nox Noctis.

Again, it just appears to be overused to me based on this one game.

 

[MaxAstro]

Hm... I was under the impression that only worshipers of CoE can build Children of Esus. If that is not the case, then the ritual is vastly overpowered and that is probably a bug. Vehem or xienwolf, can we get confirmation here? Are non-CoE worshipers supposed to be able to build the ritual?

 

[Sarisin]

Hm... I was under the impression that only worshipers of CoE can build Children of Esus. If that is not the case, then the ritual is vastly overpowered and that is probably a bug. Vehem or xienwolf, can we get confirmation here? Are non-CoE worshipers supposed to be able to build the ritual?

I'm a little surprised no one else has seen this as certainly in this game, EVERY AI civ, none of which had CoE as its state religion went nuts building this ritual. I just finished my game (Cultural Victory) around Turn 700 and I can say since about turn 450 or so, many of the AI civs did have a single turn when this ritual was not active.

I agree it is overdone and recommend it be a one-time only ritual, per civ, like most of the other rituals if CoE is not a requirement.

 

[hiphopin]

I think it should have unlimited uses HOWEVER IT NEEDS TO BE CoE ONLY!!!!!!! CoE is an amazing religion IMO with great benfits, however a lot of its main boons can be gained without adopting the religion as your own, so IMO this ritual needs to be religion specific.

 

[Vehem]

I think it should have unlimited uses HOWEVER IT NEEDS TO BE CoE ONLY!!!!!!! CoE is an amazing religion IMO with great benfits, however a lot of its main boons can be gained without adopting the religion as your own, so IMO this ritual needs to be religion specific.

We're actually probably going to tie it to Undercouncil.

 

[MaxAstro]

I would much prefer it be CoE only, both because there need to be more reasons to actually adopt esus if you are a non-founder, and to limit it's use a bit, because it is a VERY powerful ritual.

 

[xienwolf]

Correction: It is one of MANY powerful rituals. It is just that a few of the real powerful ones haven't been coded yet.


My goal is to integrate magic into the game as more than just Adept->Mage->Archmage. Empires should lob magic at one another as well, thus rituals.


I do agree that Esus needs a bit of loving to make someone want to actually adopt it. But we can do that in other ways.


Also, in case nobody has noticed, we do kind of broadcast who owns Nox Noctis to the entire world. For now I have decided that keeping membership in Esus "hidden" from human players is not working right, and thus I don't care too much about trying to make it remain semi-hidden until I have a chance to sit down and make it COMPLETELY hidden.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I agree, currently Esus is the best secondary religion in the game, but there is very little reason to actually convert. The Undercouncil doesn't need a boost, while CoE State Religion does.

 

[MaxAstro]

It also seems unthematic for a civ that doesn't even worship Esus to be able to invoke the power of being "Chosen of Esus". I mean, as is, you could cast it while your state religion is Empyrean for goodness sake. Talk about unthematic... XD

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

yep, I have to agree that is sounds better linked to CoE than to the undercouncil.