Chronicles of Adea - fantasy mod development thread

[PawelS]

New update is committed to GitHub, here is a list of changes:

• New promotions added (there are still some left to add, but we're almost there)
• Various changes to existing promotions
• Civilopedia now displays the combat types of units, that the promotions are available for
• New combat type - Mounted Archery Units (using UNITCOMBAT_GUN)
• Animal Units renamed to Beast Units
• Mounted Archery Units get some bonuses from Stable and Archery Range
• Garden requires Grassland instead of fresh water (some civs will get unique replacements that require other terrain types)
• New national wonder - Matter Converter (converts 20 gold into 20 mana per turn, available with Alchemy)
• Added Attack and Defense functionality to the UnitPromotions_UnitCombatMods table (thanks to whoward69 for the SQL code), updated some promotions to use this functionality
• Various minor changes

 

[PawelS]

@MrCasperTom: Thanks for your involvement, it's really appreciated

Question: How is Tech being handled in this? Is it going to be a literal progression of technology or more just a show of how time has progressed and how tactics change etc.? Personally I prefer the idea that, yes, new methods of warfare change but it isn't quite as big a deal as, say, one person having riflemen and the other pikemen.

This also fits in with the idea that certain unqiue units are kept but more upgraded in strength over time i.e. The Griffites would keep their Knights but new armour/skills would change their strength in game. But that's more of a consistency thing really.

Well, you can download the mod from GitHub, and see it yourself (it's still unfinished and unplayable, but the tech tree is near its final form, except the late game part of it). Generally it works similar to the base game, but there are less differences in unit strength, so the new units aren't so superior to the old ones. Note that not all connections are shown on the tech tree, all required techs are displayed when you mouse over a tech.

(To use the mod, you need to download it from GitHub, and then "compile" it using ModBuddy.)

Your idea about units being the same through the game but increasing their skills is interesting, it's similar to what I'm going to do with heroes. I plan to make heroes appear like Great People, but they will be combat units, so they need to improve their combat strength over time, so they don't become too weak compared to normal units in late game.

@rocklikeafool: As for religion, for now I'm not going to change the G&K mechanics much. Lately I got an idea that some civs should start the game with a pantheon - for example Vodniks with God of Water, and Demon Cultists with God of Fire. As for changing the religion during the game, I don't know if it will be feasible using the Civ5 religion mechanic - it's not possible to voluntarily switch to someone else's religion when you have your own, but perhaps I can think of things like changing a belief or two...

For alignments I'm going to use the BNW ideologies - instead of Autocracy, Freedom and Order there will be Good, Neutral and Evil. BNW will probably allow to change the ideology during the game, so the same applies to alignments in this mod. Also I like the World Congress idea - a place where various things can be voted is a good idea, I hope the implementation will be better than the UN in Civ4, where it's merely a set of text boxes, and the available resolutions aren't very interesting...

 

[PawelS]

(Sorry for 3 posts in a row )

Lately I wanted to play the Anno Domini mod, and I used it as an opportunity to test my happiness system. I set the starting happiness to a value that allows you to found 2 cities, and it turned out that, when you have 2 cities, getting enough happiness (15) for a Settler to appear is a very hard thing to do. So I got the idea that the first cities should cost less unhappiness, for example your first 4 cities will get a special building that gives 5 global happiness, so they will effectively cause only 5 unhappiness, while all the subsequent cities will cause 10, as later in the game you'll have more cities where you can build happiness buildings, better technology, policies etc. The details aren't determined yet, but generally I think I'll use some sort of "progressive" unhappiness from number of cities.

Also the test showed that one civ, which got a lucky start location, created a very large city there and became a "runaway civ", with a massive technological advantage over other civs. This makes me think about removing the science from population altogether - science will be produced like culture, mainly from buildings and specialists. Perhaps there will be a late game building that adds science from population, but it will be only buildable in cities specialized in science.

Another thing I'm going to do is to rename the Timber resource to Hardwood (or perhaps someone has a better idea for the name?), and make it required to produce archery units (except the Archer, which comes earlier in the tech tree than lumbermills). So archery units will require 1 Hardwood, while siege units and ships like Galleons will require 2.

 

[rocklikeafool]

I'm not that familiar with BNW ideologies. How does that work?

The world congress idea shows promise. (The UN idea was something from way back in CivII, and all it was got as an update was minor mechanics changes and a UI update in CivIII, CivIV, & CivV. All around, it's still boring. Though FfHII made it kind of interesting.)

Also, the only thing about making all archery units require hardwood is that units like crossbowmen or early archers, those types may not necessarily require hardwood. (Early archery units probably use weaker bows anyway, and crossbows are basically machines which fire bolts. Of course, the butt of the crossbow and the bolts are made out of wood, but they may not need to be a very hard wood.) So, unless hardwood is very abundant, the player may feel crippled that they can't produce early archers (the best early defense unit).

 

[PawelS]

I'm not that familiar with BNW ideologies. How does that work?

Quoted from here:

Ideologies

-The Autocracy, Freedom and Order social policy trees are now the three main ideologies
-Unlocked in Industrial Age
-There will be diplomatic benefits/penalties for those of the same or different ideology
-Can be changed (though this is not generally advised)
-There will be 3 tenets within the ideologies, you must unlock enough of tenets 1 and 2 before you can unlock a level 3 tenet

Also, the only thing about making all archery units require hardwood is that units like crossbowmen or early archers, those types may not necessarily require hardwood. (Early archery units probably use weaker bows anyway, and crossbows are basically machines which fire bolts. Of course, the butt of the crossbow and the bolts are made out of wood, but they may not need to be a very hard wood.) So, unless hardwood is very abundant, the player may feel crippled that they can't produce early archers (the best early defense unit).

I meant that Hardwood should be required for units like composite bowmen, chariots (also can be meant as required to construct the chariot itself) and horse archers. About crossbowmen, I'm not sure. Perhaps they should require Iron? I feel that it shouldn't be a resourceless unit, I'd prefer to keep it only for the recon and militia lines. As I wrote earlier, the basic archers won't require resources, because they come before lumbermills can be constructed. Hardwood is meant to be a very abundant resource indeed, so perhaps I'll keep it required for Crossbowmen, even if it's unrealistic (or maybe the Crossbowmen should be replaced with something else, and be used only as a UU for some civs?)

 

[rocklikeafool]

Quoted from here:

Sounds like it could be worked to our purpose. So, let me know how you want the civics done. I've not been able to work on them much, but hopefully I can do some work here soon.

I meant that Hardwood should be required for units like composite bowmen, chariots (also can be meant as required to construct the chariot itself) and horse archers. About crossbowmen, I'm not sure. Perhaps they should require Iron? I feel that it shouldn't be a resourceless unit, I'd prefer to keep it only for the recon and militia lines. As I wrote earlier, the basic archers won't require resources, because they come before lumbermills can be constructed.

That makes a lot of sense then, yeah.

Hardwood is meant to be a very abundant resource indeed, so perhaps I'll keep it required for Crossbowmen, even if it's unrealistic (or maybe the Crossbowmen should be replaced with something else, and be used only as a UU for some civs?)

I think that might be a fine idea. Lorewise, it could be justified by something to the effect of only the mechanically-minded civs would use contraptions or machines. Crossbows, being a machine, would therefore only be used by mechanically-minded civs.

 

[PawelS]

Sounds like it could be worked to our purpose. So, let me know how you want the civics done. I've not been able to work on them much, but hopefully I can do some work here soon.

Well, I think the alpha version will probably be released after the BNW expansion. As the ideologies are going to replace the Autocracy/Freedom/Order policy trees, we can do something similar. So if you're going to work on the policies, skip Freedom, Domination, Order and Chaos for now, as some elements of them will be probably incorporated into the alignment trees. The other 6 policy trees should remain mostly unchanged, so you can work on them.

I think that might be a fine idea. Lorewise, it could be justified by something to the effect of only the mechanically-minded civs would use contraptions or machines. Crossbows, being a machine, would therefore only be used by mechanically-minded civs.

But what unit should be the base version then? I'm thinking about the Longbowman, but then the Elves will lose their UU. They should have an archer UU, do you have any ideas for its name?

 

[rocklikeafool]

Well, I think the alpha version will probably be released after the BNW expansion. As the ideologies are going to replace the Autocracy/Freedom/Order policy trees, we can do something similar. So if you're going to work on the policies, skip Freedom, Domination, Order and Chaos for now, as some elements of them will be probably incorporated into the alignment trees. The other 6 policy trees should remain mostly unchanged, so you can work on them.

Sounds good.

But what unit should be the base version then? I'm thinking about the Longbowman, but then the Elves will lose their UU. They should have an archer UU, do you have any ideas for its name?

Hmm...let me sit on that for a bit. I need to come up with a suitably Elvish name (that isn't in some odd Elvish language, lol).

 

[PawelS]

A new update is on GitHub. I'll try to do weekly updates from now on, but don't quote me on that

Changes:

• General Rules.sql file renamed to Defines.sql
• Some changes to Defines
• Palace moved from National Wonders.XML file to Government.XML file
• Palace now gives +1 Global Happiness per policy adopted. This effect is used as one of the factors that increase happiness over time, so later you can have more cities.
• Palace now has correct description
• New building added - Founders Statue. It increases Global Happiness by 5, and is granted for free in your first 4 cities (if you lose one of them, it should appear in the next city you found). It's used to reduce the "happiness cost" of the first cities to speed up early expansion
• Changed the Lua code that grants settlers, so for cities 2-4 you only need 10 happiness instead of 15
• Updated HappinessDefault in the Handicaps file to take into account the above changes to happiness system
• Added missing XML tags to Game Speeds (PeaceDealDuration, RelationshipDuration) - they were added to the game in one of the patches, but I haven't added them to the mod until now
• Other minor changes

About the archery units: I think I'll create a new unit called Sharpshooter, but it will be an unit available to many civs, not an Elven UU. It will be an upgrade from Longbowman, available with the Elite Troops tech (civs that have the Crossbowman will upgrade it to Musketeer instead, which is available with Gunpowder). For now I don't have any ideas for Elven archer UU. I thought about it, and now I think it's fine, as a part of their trait will give them bonuses for all existing (non-mounted) archery units (but of course if someone gets an idea for a cool UU, we will implement it, even only for flavor purposes).

 

[Calavente]

for the elves UU I'll propose something like the warhammer's wood-elves:
-Glade guards (UU for Longbows)
-Waywatchers (UU for Sharpshooter)
However I would rather only take inspiration and have a
-Glade Guard ==> Wood Warden evolution.

 

[MrL567]

Question. Are the following normal civ 4 UU's that I will list be ingame in any form?

Cataphract
H'wacha
Dromon
Longbow Men
Sea Beggers
Keskiks
The China Crossbow UU (Can't Spell name)
Pict warriors
Mohawk warriors
Horse Archer
Battering Ram
Immortal
Hoplite
Companion Calvery

Sorry for the question if it was answered already. Just asking.

 

[PawelS]

@Calavente: Good names

@MrL567: I think you mean Civ5 UUs, although most of them are in Civ4 too

Cataphract - currently used as Heavy Cavalry
H'wacha - will be used for the Nikkei civ (not in alpha)
Dromon - yes (Archon UU)
Longbow Men - yes (available for most civs, except those that have Crossbowmen)
Sea Beggers - not sure, perhaps a UU for Barbarians or Dreamers or a Rogue/Pirate civ that will be added in the future
Keskiks - yes (Heavy Horse Archer)
The China Crossbow UU (Can't Spell name) - will be used for Nikkei, like the H'wacha
Pict warriors - currently used as Militia
Mohawk warriors - possibly a Lemurian unit
Horse Archer - yes (most civs)
Battering Ram - yes (most or all civs)
Immortal - not sure yet, perhaps an Azrac UU
Hoplite - yes (Archon UU)
Companion Cavalry - currently used as Light Cavalry

 

[MrL567]

@Calavente: Good names

@MrL567: I think you mean Civ5 UUs, although most of them are in Civ4 too

Cataphract - currently used as Heavy Cavalry
H'wacha - will be used for the Nikkei civ (not in alpha)
Dromon - yes (Archon UU)
Longbow Men - yes (available for most civs, except those that have Crossbowmen)
Sea Beggers - not sure, perhaps a UU for Barbarians or Dreamers or a Rogue/Pirate civ that will be added in the future
Keskiks - yes (Heavy Horse Archer)
The China Crossbow UU (Can't Spell name) - will be used for Nikkei, like the H'wacha
Pict warriors - currently used as Militia
Mohawk warriors - possibly a Lemurian unit
Horse Archer - yes (most civs)
Battering Ram - yes (most or all civs)
Immortal - not sure yet, perhaps an Azrac UU
Hoplite - yes (Archon UU)
Companion Cavalry - currently used as Light Cavalry

Thanks for clarifying about that. I would love to help, but can't program or do art, which is a shame.

 

[rocklikeafool]

for the elves UU I'll propose something like the warhammer's wood-elves:
-Glade guards (UU for Longbows)
-Waywatchers (UU for Sharpshooter)
However I would rather only take inspiration and have a
-Glade Guard ==> Wood Warden evolution.

That's a really good idea, except Elves wouldn't have Sharpshooters. I approve of everything else though.

 

[Calavente]

why wouldn't they have sharpshooters ?

(and here I link to waywardens... and I quote

they can remain concealed and unmoving for days on end and then let loose a volley of arrows instantly and with deadly precision,(...)They can pierce armour and even slay the most powerful heroes with just a single shot

) thus, it will not be exaclty sharpshooters... but they could be a UU with slightly different stats ..
I don't know what: less str, but +50% in forest/jungle and slightly concealed ?

 

[rocklikeafool]

why wouldn't they have sharpshooters ?

See post 129.

(and here I link to waywardens... and I quote ) thus, it will not be exaclty sharpshooters... but they could be a UU with slightly different stats ..
I don't know what: less str, but +50% in forest/jungle and slightly concealed ?

Sounds good, except it'd be +50% in forest (not in jungles). I suspect, as times goes on, all elven units will have +X% in forest. Don't expect that in the alpha though, iirc.

 

[Calavente]

well, to me, post 129 says "I have no IDEA of elven sharpshooter UU"... not "no sharpshooter UU for elves".

it also says: "sharpshooter is a unit for everybody, not an elven UU", which means :"sharpshooters will be available to anybody in one way or the other and not limited to elves"

but I might be wrong.

 

[PawelS]

Yes, I meant that the Sharpshooter will be a non-UU unit, so it will be available for most civs, although it will be blocked for civs that have access to the Musketeer. So if the Elves have an UU in this position, they won't have the Sharpshooter (which is not a problem for me, if the UU's name sounds even more Elvish )

I'll probably add the Sharpshooter in this weekend's update.

Elves will have a combat bonus in forest in the alpha, it's not a hard thing to do, just a free promotion in the trait. But I'm not sure if it works properly for ranged units, if not it will be fixed post-alpha in the DLL. Elves will have bonuses only in Forest; Jungle is for the Lemurians (aka Beastmen).

 

[rocklikeafool]

Yes, I meant that the Sharpshooter will be a non-UU unit, so it will be available for most civs, although it will be blocked for civs that have access to the Musketeer. So if the Elves have an UU in this position, they won't have the Sharpshooter (which is not a problem for me, if the UU's name sounds even more Elvish )

Yeah, I thought that's what you meant.

I'll probably add the Sharpshooter in this weekend's update.

Cool, cool.

Elves will have a combat bonus in forest in the alpha, it's not a hard thing to do, just a free promotion in the trait. But I'm not sure if it works properly for ranged units, if not it will be fixed post-alpha in the DLL. Elves will have bonuses only in Forest; Jungle is for the Lemurians (aka Beastmen).

I couldn't remember if we were putting that in the alpha or not. Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[Calavente]

if you thought that's what he meant and Pawels agreed with me, then I don't understand your comment of post 134

for me I proposed a name for a UU for elves that could replace the "sharpshooter".

while you replied that "ok for names, except (read "however") elves will not have a sharphooter" thus meaning "neither sharpshooter nor UU replacing a sharpshooter" (in the same way that in FFH ljosalfar and svartalfar don't have acces to catapults nor musketeer, or Khazad don't have mages or archmages).

and Pawels said "if elves have a sharpshooter UU, they wouldn't have a sharpshooter units per se" (ie they wouldn't have a unit named sharpshooter).
in the same way that Roma doesn't have longswords units as they have legions instead.

so I'm a bit lost on what you think I said, what you think you said, what I think that you think Pawels said, and what I think you said.... (crazy no?)

(however that's not really an issue as 1) I think we all agree to follow PawelS lead on that; 2) I'm not in the dev team )