civ 4 or civ 5 and where to buy

If chaka comes storming in i worry! Never mind the stack of doom. 1upt is also a challenge for human players. If you want to take a strong city a human player needs good planning aswell. The best thing about civ 5 is 1upt.

Not really. Unless I get caught out really badly, I am usually able to win most wars without losing more than 2-3 units. What makes civ5 relatively much easier compared to its predeccesor (singleplayer) is IMO only the war. The AI usually does fairly well on the economy front (which is still not as good as a human, but still), but gets absolutely routed in most wars.

And all this is of course for emperor and below, never tried higher than that.
 
Then there's your problem, you should up the difficulty if you've got problems with the AI
 
Upping the difficulty only means they are sending bigger carpets at you, not that they actually use their units properly.

I vote for Civ4 btw, but you really should get both.
 
Upping the difficulty only means they are sending bigger carpets at you, not that they actually use their units properly.
That was true in IV as well -- just bigger (and more) stacks instead of bigger carpets. 1UPT just exposes limitations of the AI when it comes to tactics.

I agree with the sentiment that the best thing about civ 5 is 1UPT and hexes, I cannot really imagine going back to stacks and quadrilaterals. I think 5 will spoil your appetite for 4, so if you think you want to do play both, then get 4 first.
 
That was true in IV as well -- just bigger (and more) stacks instead of bigger carpets. 1UPT just exposes limitations of the AI when it comes to tactics.

Yes, but the AI could actually do seizable damage with those stacks.

I agree with the sentiment that the best thing about civ 5 is 1UPT and hexes, I cannot really imagine going back to stacks and quadrilaterals. I think 5 will spoil your appetite for 4, so if you think you want to do play both, then get 4 first.

I disagree with all of that. 1UPT is literally the single worst thing about Civ5. All it is turn the game into "Traffic Jam Simulator 2010" and enable gamey exploits like blocking other civs' settlers or missionaries with your own units. No thank you, I prefer to organize my armies so that I can move them with a single click rather than moving each unit individually. Honestly, every decent RTS game worth its salt has the option of dragging a window with your cursor to select several units at once, but Civ5 doesn't even have that and instead plays like a friggin' board game.

Civ4 is even without mods a very good game, Civ5 is unplayable for me without the Community Balance Patch.
 
Well hopefully OP has gotten enough feedback to know which is more likely to suit his tastes. I actually feel like it is a feature that plays like a board game. No point in selecting multiple units when the pathing is so terrible -- not that one bug justifies another!
 
Then there's your problem, you should up the difficulty if you've got problems with the AI

I would, but my main problem with upping the difficulty is that the early game starts becoming a drag. You have to give up any hope of a wonder/religion most of the times and focus on the AI dogpiling. I can still win many of those games but it feels like almost half the game is about playing catch-up to the AI.
Not to mention, my complaint was about the AI sucking at war. Upping the difficulty simply gives them more units, it does not make them smarter with the units.


@the OP, like Imp.Knoedel said, it's best to try both and see which one you like. It really depends on your own tastes more than anything.
 
On Civ 4 v 5: My guess is that you'll get more votes for 5 on this Civ V board. You'll get more votes for 4 on the Civ 4 board. I'd even guess you'll get more for Civ:BE on the BE board.
 
I would, but my main problem with upping the difficulty is that the early game starts becoming a drag.
My main problem with not upping the difficulty is that the game is a drag if there is no chance that I might loose. But this gets at that one big advantage of V over IV is that the difficulty level curve is so much better in V. With IV, one level is much too easy but the next level much too hard. With V, things are smoother, and most serious players can work up to Deity.

You have to give up any hope of a wonder/religion most of the times and focus on the AI dogpiling.
I am probably a below average Deity player, but I get a religion more the half the time I think. If go Liberty I can get Pyramids and one other early wonder in the majority of those games.

I can still win many of those games but it feels like almost half the game is about playing catch-up to the AI.
You start out behind, so it feels like that by design. More like three-quarters of the game for me!

Not to mention, my complaint was about the AI sucking at war. Upping the difficulty simply gives them more units, it does not make them smarter with the units.
The civ AIs have always sucked at war. Upping the difficulty has always given the AI more units. In context, your complaint implies that the civ IV difficulty slider made the AI smarter -- but that is not correct.
 
Upping the difficulty simply gives them more units, it does not make them smarter with the units.

Civ 4 was not smarter with units. The AI sent in a bunch.
You seem to miss the point of 1upt. The stack of doom is something the AI can do, but it was also something a human could do. A mindnumbing way of playing a game. With 1upt even the human has to plan things carefully. The ai is dumb anyway when it comes to war.
 
You seem to miss the point of 1upt. The stack of doom is something the AI can do, but it was also something a human could do. A mindnumbing way of playing a game. With 1upt even the human has to plan things carefully. The ai is dumb anyway when it comes to war.

So coordinating traffic jams when you just want to get your army from point A to point B is not mindnumbing?
 
Coördinating and mindnumbing?
About the traffic jam. It's realistic. You can't push an enormous army through a choking point at once.
 
About the traffic jam. It's realistic. You can't push an enormous army through a choking point at once.

That may be, but I can certainly have an engineer and an artist within a hundred kilometers of each other. ;)
 
My main problem with not upping the difficulty is that the game is a drag if there is no chance that I might loose. But this gets at that one big advantage of V over IV is that the difficulty level curve is so much better in V. With IV, one level is much too easy but the next level much too hard. With V, things are smoother, and most serious players can work up to Deity.

Yeah.. Despite playing IV for much longer than V I still play with a higher difficulty on V. Part of that might be down to the fact that I took the game easily as it wasn't my first civ game.

I am probably a below average Deity player, but I get a religion more the half the time I think. If go Liberty I can get Pyramids and one other early wonder in the majority of those games.

And often after getting your religion you realise Boudicca has alread converted half the continent to Catholiscism :lol:
And yeah the low priority (for the AI) wonders can be gotten, but stuff like the Lighthouse or the Library I like to have sometimes :D but if the AI sets its mind on it it seems impossible. Well sure I could win without it, but it just feels good:D

You start out behind, so it feels like that by design. More like three-quarters of the game for me!

Yeah, thats a weakness I've found in all civ games I've played tbh.

The civ AIs have always sucked at war. Upping the difficulty has always given the AI more units. In context, your complaint implies that the civ IV difficulty slider made the AI smarter -- but that is not correct.

You are right. My point was that the AI wasn't really bad at stack combat, so that hides its flaws in a way. The game feels more difficult as a result.


Civ 4 was not smarter with units. The AI sent in a bunch.
You seem to miss the point of 1upt. The stack of doom is something the AI can do, but it was also something a human could do. A mindnumbing way of playing a game. With 1upt even the human has to plan things carefully. The ai is dumb anyway when it comes to war.
Coördinating and mindnumbing?
About the traffic jam. It's realistic. You can't push an enormous army through a choking point at once.

This is one thing I strongly disagree with. This is civilization, not age of empires. Large scale, not small scale. A few tiles are equivalent to a small country. For example, on Rhye's larger Europe map the Iberian peninsula was about 36 tiles. Comparing it to the actual area, you get about 16,000 square kilometers per tile. I really dont think you could realistically create a stack of units that wouldn't fit into that much space. This is why 1upt would be better suited to a AoE style game, where the scale is much smaller and you are playing a small region. Civilization aims to simulate an entire continent or even world. 1upt creates situations like longbowmen shooting from London into Paris and rather annoying traffic jams. Not to mention the host of other problems indirectly caused by it (slower production, huge turn times, and I really can't picture a RFC-like mod ever coming on a 1 upt game unless the map is expanded a lot).
 
Yeah 100 tiles on small (typical for multi) is a pretty large country
 
Italy on a huge Earth map is less than four tiles.
 
Top Bottom