Civ 4 sales.. your opinions?

[Rayanth]

Yes but strategy genre is owed by the PC, and consoles cant compete with any real multiplayer geared game game like Battlefield 2

Um... Battlefield 2 is coming to Xbox. Also, Halo 2 is probably the most-played Multiplayer game out in the market today. Xbox-only... oh wait, that's a console, it can't compete with PC!

, and their's no why they will be able to do a MMO.

Final Fantasy 11, the 3rd most popular MMO on the market today, is being released for the XBox 360. Final Fantasy 11 is already on the PS2 -- in fact, that's where it STARTED, in Japan.

Also consider that just a few years ago computers were still really spendy, now they have really come down in price. Now look at the price of the new Xbox 360 (about $300) you can almost buy a low end computer for that, and there are so limit to what you can do as regards to expanding your gaming experience through mods and editors that really i believe maybe it wont be long before people stop buying consoles.

The XBox 360 runs 3 Water-cooled 3.2 GHZ Processors and 512 megs of memory. It also contains a custom-designed video card by ATI that is at least one year ahead of any video card available for the PC.

NO PC is capable of running 3 3.2 Ghz PowerPC Processors. Especially for $300. Let's try:

Case: +$20 (if you go supercheap)
512 MB Memory : +$65
2.3 Ghz (yes, 2.3 not 3.2) Processor: +$67
another processor: +$67
yet another processor: +$67
Top-of-the-line Video Card (Radeon 9800 Pro): +$142

We don't even have a Motherboard to run this because there are no 3-processor motherboards... and we're already at $428. We also have no sound card, hard drives, operating system... and we're already above the cost of the *Premium* Xbox 360 package ($399) which includes a 20gig harddrive!

you CANNOT say that you can build an equivalent Personal Computer for the same cost or less than an XBox 360. It simply cannot be done -- let alone, as stated already, the Video card alone in the XBox360 is at least a year ahead of any PC Video Card on the market today. It CANNOT be matched in a PC!

$400 can build you a PC, sure. But it's not going to be capable of running today's games the way they were meant to be run. Solitaire? sure. Doom 3? not gonna happen. Civ4? Uses a full 3d graphics accelartion now, so probably not gonna happen on a $400 computer. XBox 360 can do everything the PC can, and far MORE, for FAR less cost. Oh -- did I mention that they're also putting out an RTS for the Xbox next month? Did I mention that it's getting some of the best ratings an RTS has ever received, even by PCGaming mags?

I don't think PC gaming is going to die, more and more people are getting more proficient with computers and more likely to use them for everything including games.

True, perhaps. But Console gaming is growing exponentially and doesn't show any signs of slowing down with this new generation.

Fwiw, I work at EBGames. Video games are my hobby, my profession, my life. I'm not making any of this up, it's from my personal knowledge, experience, and inside information.

Oh and one more comment: Virtually all video game specialty stores have recently reduced their PC Gaming section to a mere 10% of the store. This is in response to a *decreasing* trend in PC Game sales versus console sales. This is NOT indicative of the overall trend of video games -- in fact Video games as a whole have for two years running out-grossed the entire movie industry.

For those who haven't heard, EBGames and GameStop are merging next year. Collectively, we will be the single largest specialty retailer on the planet, with 4000 stores worldwide.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Today's gamers are a bit more cautious I believe.

Bull****. The fact is that Civ is an old series that don't refresh much. Who would say that Civ3 have been revolutionary? Or even less than revolutionary. Also now there is Internet. Piracy is far from being ended. The two combined gives that some people will prefer to pirate a game that may not deserve to be bought. That's because of the multiplayer that would be a guarantee of a non piracy that is ****ed up, despite Firaxis illusions.

For these reasons, I think that Civ4 will sell less than 1 million copies.

 

[Phoenix_56721]

Um... Battlefield 2 is coming to Xbox. Also, Halo 2 is probably the most-played Multiplayer game out in the market today. Xbox-only... oh wait, that's a console, it can't compete with PC!

Yes, but Battlefield 2 on the PC will be way better for online play, it will have a tons of mods and maps, Xbox cant do anything like that in there version, PC online play is much more intuitive and realistic for any FPS, consoles have what auto-aim? You just cant beat a mouse for any FPS!!! Your right that they will sell more on the console version then on the PC, but it doesn't mean that people wont eventually see the short comings with consoles.

Final Fantasy 11, the 3rd most popular MMO on the market today, is being released for the Box 360. Final Fantasy 11 is already on the PS2 -- in fact, that's where it STARTED, in Japan.

Sorry how do you type on a console again, This genre belongs to PC

NO PC is capable of running 3 3.2 Ghz PowerPC Processors. Especially for $300. Let's try:

Case: +$20 (if you go supercheap)
512 MB Memory : +$65
2.3 Ghz (yes, 2.3 not 3.2) Processor: +$67
another processor: +$67
yet another processor: +$67
Top-of-the-line Video Card (Radeon 9800 Pro): +$142

I never said that you could build a computer that is just as good, what I meant was that more and more people will start looking at the cost of these new consoles and start figuring out that a computer for a little more will be a greater benefit to them, then just games.....

Lets see what else we can do on a console
oh thats right nothing....

Lets see what we can do on a PC
Email
School work
Surf the net
Run a small business
and whatever else you can think of!!!!

you CANNOT say that you can build an equivalent Personal Computer for the same cost or less than an Box 360. It simply cannot be done -- let alone, as stated already, the Video card alone in the XBox360 is at least a year ahead of any PC Video Card on the market today. It CANNOT be matched in a PC!

I know that they will have the market on the best graphics for the next year, but then what? The PC will pass them in graphics and in 3 years people will still be buying the same machine that was being sold 3 years ago. You cant upgrade a Console! But you can on a PC.

XBox 360 can do everything the PC can, and far MORE

Modding?
Editors?
Download 1,000 maps for UT2004?
Type? (I cant stand the headphones and I know I'm not alone)
mouse for FPS?
Download demos?

Oh -- did I mention that they're also putting out an RTS for the Xbox next month? Did I mention that it's getting some of the best ratings an RTS has ever received, even by PCGaming mags?

Shatter Union? If so its a TBS I believe and I have read about it. Sound like a decent game. It looks better then AOM3 (Demo sucked)

Fwiw, I work at EBGames. Video games are my hobby, my profession, my life. I'm not making any of this up, it's from my personal knowledge, experience, and inside information.

Great Where's my copy of Civ4?......... just kidding, Listen I have a Xbox its OK cant really find a game that i really like on it so far. I grew up on consoles but after I switched to PC the consoles seemed lame.

 

[garric]

Um... Battlefield 2 is coming to Xbox. Also, Halo 2 is probably the most-played Multiplayer game out in the market today. Xbox-only... oh wait, that's a console, it can't compete with PC!



Final Fantasy 11, the 3rd most popular MMO on the market today, is being released for the XBox 360. Final Fantasy 11 is already on the PS2 -- in fact, that's where it STARTED, in Japan.



The XBox 360 runs 3 Water-cooled 3.2 GHZ Processors and 512 megs of memory. It also contains a custom-designed video card by ATI that is at least one year ahead of any video card available for the PC.

NO PC is capable of running 3 3.2 Ghz PowerPC Processors. Especially for $300. Let's try:

Case: +$20 (if you go supercheap)
512 MB Memory : +$65
2.3 Ghz (yes, 2.3 not 3.2) Processor: +$67
another processor: +$67
yet another processor: +$67
Top-of-the-line Video Card (Radeon 9800 Pro): +$142

We don't even have a Motherboard to run this because there are no 3-processor motherboards... and we're already at $428. We also have no sound card, hard drives, operating system... and we're already above the cost of the *Premium* Xbox 360 package ($399) which includes a 20gig harddrive!

you CANNOT say that you can build an equivalent Personal Computer for the same cost or less than an XBox 360. It simply cannot be done -- let alone, as stated already, the Video card alone in the XBox360 is at least a year ahead of any PC Video Card on the market today. It CANNOT be matched in a PC!

$400 can build you a PC, sure. But it's not going to be capable of running today's games the way they were meant to be run. Solitaire? sure. Doom 3? not gonna happen. Civ4? Uses a full 3d graphics accelartion now, so probably not gonna happen on a $400 computer. XBox 360 can do everything the PC can, and far MORE, for FAR less cost. Oh -- did I mention that they're also putting out an RTS for the Xbox next month? Did I mention that it's getting some of the best ratings an RTS has ever received, even by PCGaming mags?



True, perhaps. But Console gaming is growing exponentially and doesn't show any signs of slowing down with this new generation.

Fwiw, I work at EBGames. Video games are my hobby, my profession, my life. I'm not making any of this up, it's from my personal knowledge, experience, and inside information.

Wow, XBOX fanboy alert anyone?

BTW: You are one of the dumbest people I have seen. Besides claiming, miscalucating, and flat out lying, you actually called a 9800PRO a top of the line card. For example, your beloved Halo 2 isn't the most played game ever - World of Warcraft has 4 million subscribers, more than the entire XBOX live database. Not to mention games like Counter Strike and Starcraft. The XBOX360 processor, also, isn't running "THREE WATER COOLED PROCESSORS". It is one Power PC processor with three cores. Also, just because a processor is "tri" core doesn't mean its three times stronger. For example, an AMD 64 dual core 3800+ processor isn't as fast as TWO 3800+ processors. All that means is it has two cores that can manage different threads better.

My advice to you is: Get your head out of your ass, go play some Halo 2, and stop trolling these forums.

 

[Turner]

Moderator Action: That's enough of the flaming and trolling.

 

[Rayanth]

Sorry how do you type on a console again, This genre belongs to PC

Through the same contraption you use on the computer. it's called a keyboard. both PS2 and Xbox 360 have USB ports that any standard USB Keyboard can plug into.

Great Where's my copy of Civ4?......... just kidding, Listen I have a Xbox its OK cant really find a game that i really like on it so far. I grew up on consoles but after I switched to PC the consoles seemed lame.

I'm not saying PC is bad. I'm just saying that your claims that consoles will die is bunk. It's quite the opposite, in terms of gaming. Yes Civ will always be a PC Game (with the exception of the original now being released on cell phones) -- but there are many games that work far better on console than PC.

Personally I'm very picky in my gaming. on consoles i primarily play static RPG's and racers, with the occasional shooter thrown in -- games that don't work quite as well on PC, imho.

However I also play FFXI on the PC, as well as Civ 3, AoM, GuildWars, Black & White 2, and good old Minesweeper. Of these, FFXI is the only game i'm actually looking forward to on the XBox 360, and that's primarily for the fact that the graphics are going to be insane.

If your Console experience has been limited to the XBox, I can see why you're disappointed. the xbox is geared for a specific type of gamer, and if you don't fit the profile, it's not the console for you... there is a far wider variety available for PS2, and you'll find a little of everything (except RTS/TBS)

 

[Phoenix_56721]

@ Rayanth

I'm not saying PC is bad. I'm just saying that your claims that consoles will die is bunk

I think that in the future (say 12-15 years from now) people will be playing games on a machines that will more reassemble today's computers rather then todays consoles, they going in that direction already by including things like online play, DVDs options, hard drives and so on, so they are moving in the direction of computers with multipurpose platforms Incorporated in them! Rather the the old consoles machines that were restricted to one thing. Computers aren't going anywhere but into the future, consoles on the other hand will have to keep reinventing themselves till well, they become a computer.

 

[general_kill]

it will easily break $4 million because of the inflation of game prices. even if civ 4 comes out for $50 a pop which is cheap in pc game standard, it will only have to sell 80,000 copies to reach $4 million. if we compare sales, we must factor in inflation, total market, and the competition sales.

 

[Phoenix_56721]

it will easily break $4 million because of the inflation of game prices. even if civ 4 comes out for $50 a pop which is cheap in pc game standard, it will only have to sell 80,000 copies to reach $4 million. if we compare sales, we must factor in inflation, total market, and the competition sales.

Were talking number of copies that are going to be sold not profit...

How much do you guys think Civ 4 is going to sell (copy wise.).

 

[Rayanth]

Wow, XBOX fanboy alert anyone?

BTW: You are one of the dumbest people I have seen. Besides claiming, miscalucating, and flat out lying, you actually called a 9800PRO a top of the line card. For example, your beloved Halo 2 isn't the most played game ever - World of Warcraft has 4 million subscribers, more than the entire XBOX live database. Not to mention games like Counter Strike and Starcraft. The XBOX360 processor, also, isn't running "THREE WATER COOLED PROCESSORS". It is one Power PC processor with three cores. Also, just because a processor is "tri" core doesn't mean its three times stronger. For example, an AMD 64 dual core 3800+ processor isn't as fast as TWO 3800+ processors. All that means is it has two cores that can manage different threads better.

My advice to you is: Get your head out of your ass, go play some Halo 2, and stop trolling these forums.

My apologies if my knowledge of current video cards is a little lacking -- I try to stay on top of my industry's trends, and with PC Games grossing only a small portion of sales at my store, I don't pay much attention to today's video cards that alone cost more than today's consoles. the 9800 was, the last time i went shopping for cards, one of the best. A quick search on NewEgg brought up special offers with the prices i used above - a method i stuck with as it would keep the cost of our theoretical PC to a minimum. The exercise was to try and build an even remotely comparable gaming system for the same cost of the pricey xbox 360 -- something I believe I have shown is not possible.

The bottom point of my post was: Suggesting that console gaming will die while PC Gaming will flourish in the near future is quite the opposite of current trends. There are some things Consoles cannot do. However, to maintain a PC at the level of what consoles *can* do is significantly more expensive than buying a new console every 4 years. PC Hardware is sold at a profit, in virtually every store that sells it, unless they're on sale to draw your attention to other items. Consoles are sold at a loss - it costs Microsoft FAR more than $400 to put together a 360 premium package.

In addition, there is a huge variety of games available for consoles, and the low entry investment is drawing attention to new players every day.

Now, to try and tie this back into the original post: Civilization 4 has seen TONS of preorders already, and we're getting many more as October 25th approaches. Many people tend to wait a bit on PCGames until many reviews have been issued as well as patches -- but if the current preorder rate is indicative, then I have no doubt Civ4 will sell a few million copies worldwide.

To those who jumped at flaming me : While I admit that I'm a bit of a console lover, and I readily drool at the capabilities of the XBox 360 (again, capabilities that most of today's PC's whimper at) -- I am very passionate about the video game hobby as a whole. I play PC Games, but I don't have a few thousand dollars to spend on a top of the line gaming rig. Perhaps I overreacted in my original response, or my passion-fueled typing led to a few strays...for that, you have my apologies.

However, just because I am a newly registered member and post infrequently does not mean I am a troll. Your flames and responses were far less called for than my own. I stumbled upon this website by accident... if your attitude towards me is indicative of the general population, then it is no wonder I have never heard of this place before... everyone who would have told me about it was undoubtedly scared away by your aggressive stance towards their arrival.

 

[Rayanth]

@ Rayanth

I think that in the future (say 12-15 years from now) people will be playing games on a machines that will more reassemble today's computers rather then todays consoles, they going in that direction already by including things like online play, DVDs options, hard drives and so on, so they are moving in the direction of computers with multipurpose platforms Incorporated in them! Rather the the old consoles machines that were restricted to one thing. Computers aren't going anywhere but into the future, consoles on the other hand will have to keep reinventing themselves till well, they become a computer.

Hmm. My apologies for thoroughly misinterpreting your post...

I agree that consoles are re-inventing themselves to be more like computers... But I would like to offer a counter-observation and a bit of an add-on (not a total disagreement, mind you)

Consoles are reinventing themselves to be more like the entire home entertainment theater.

Think about it, for two generations (counting the upcoming) they have been able to take over everything your DVD player could do, as well as many things your stereo could do. In this next evolution, Consoles are becoming the bridge between your home computer and your home theater. the x360 is *literally* this bridge, as it allows Windows Media Center edition to broadcast multimedia to the console, which in turn displays it on your tv (or plays it on your surround sound stereo, or both)

An interesting observation would be if consoles grew mice and keyboards as standard -- would you be able to install PC Games on them?

I agree that computers will always have a place in our homes -- but as consoles evolve, will they replace computers entirely, or will computers evolve new uses that consoles cannot handle? About the only thing I don't foresee consoles taking over any time soon is the ability to use scanners and printers... email is the next obvious step in XBox Live... web browsing is already in our PSP's... it should be interesting to see.

I would like to add an unrelated comment: The price of console video games in the next generation is going up to $59.99 for non-LE copies... $69.99 for some LE's. Don't be too surprised to see PC-only games follow suit soon... they share many of the same developers, after all. (Civ4 of course is only $49.99)


To garric: thanks for the wonderful PM. In fact, I loved it so much I'll show the whole world how down to earth and outgoing you are:

You peice of **** XBOX humper. Go back to Gamespot.com you piece of **** ignorant fanboy.

fwiw, I hate gamespot.

 

[strhopper]

in 2-3 years after xbox 360 comes out a low end computer will out run it....beside I can just upgrade my pc evey 5 years for less than $300...........I own a xbox and am lookin forward to the 360 but by no way is the pc dyin...........people like you have been sayin this for years......certain games and uses will always keep the pc alive

The only real advantage to console is the couch potato thing and shooters

Graphics are always better on a pc

Always wondered why console guys always like to say pc is dyin

The pc started it all and will always be here

get use to it

 

[Phoenix_56721]

Hmm. My apologies for thoroughly misinterpreting your post...

I agree that consoles are re-inventing themselves to be more like computers... But I would like to offer a counter-observation and a bit of an add-on (not a total disagreement, mind you)

Consoles are reinventing themselves to be more like the entire home entertainment theater.

Think about it, for two generations (counting the upcoming) they have been able to take over everything your DVD player could do, as well as many things your stereo could do. In this next evolution, Consoles are becoming the bridge between your home computer and your home theater. the x360 is *literally* this bridge, as it allows Windows Media Center edition to broadcast multimedia to the console, which in turn displays it on your tv (or plays it on your surround sound stereo, or both)

An interesting observation would be if consoles grew mice and keyboards as standard -- would you be able to install PC Games on them?

I agree that computers will always have a place in our homes -- but as consoles evolve, will they replace computers entirely, or will computers evolve new uses that consoles cannot handle? About the only thing I don't foresee consoles taking over any time soon is the ability to use scanners and printers... email is the next obvious step in XBox Live... web browsing is already in our PSP's... it should be interesting to see.

I would like to add an unrelated comment: The price of console video games in the next generation is going up to $59.99 for non-LE copies... $69.99 for some LE's. Don't be too surprised to see PC-only games follow suit soon... they share many of the same developers, after all. (Civ4 of course is only $49.99)

I believe there is talk already about games that you and put into your xbox and play, then take the same disc and put into your PC and play. I belive that in the future there will be just one type of machine for all our needs, and it will be a combintion of all the best aspects of both platforms!...

 

[Rayanth]

in 2-3 years after xbox 360 comes out a low end computer will out run it....beside I can just upgrade my pc evey 5 years for less than $300...........I own a xbox and am lookin forward to the 360 but by no way is the pc dyin...........people like you have been sayin this for years......certain games and uses will always keep the pc alive

The only real advantage to console is the couch potato thing and shooters

Graphics are always better on a pc

Always wondered why console guys always like to say pc is dyin

The pc started it all and will always be here

get use to it

I'm not foretelling the end of the world here... I'm offering a view of the industry from the inside. I work for one of the largest (soon to be the largest) companies that sells video games... and the majority of our customers are console -- not because we don't carry PC Games, but because few people buy them. The *trend* in PC games is declining, while console gaming is rising. Perhaps when Civ4 comes out and saves PC Gaming as we know it and consoles die completely, the trend will change... but for now, more gamers play consoles than pc's. (a large set play both, myself included)

 

[warpstorm]

I'm not foretelling the end of the world here... I'm offering a view of the industry from the inside. I work for one of the largest (soon to be the largest) companies that sells video games... and the majority of our customers are console -- not because we don't carry PC Games, but because few people buy them. The *trend* in PC games is declining, while console gaming is rising.

I too work in the industry (making games, not selling them), and there is some truth in Rayanth's statements. The PC market is far from dead, but a hit game on the PC sells only as many copies as a mediocre console title.

One thing that EB doesn't see though is the amount of revenue that comes in from subscription-based gaming on the PC. They sell one box. Blizzard is claiming 4 million current WOW subscribers. At $15 a month (before expenses, they have big time expenses) per subscriber, they are skewing the sales figures a lot because EB sees the first $50 but misses out on the $180 a year that the subscribers are paying straight to the company.

 

[Turner]

$180/yr @ 4 million subscribers is 3/4ths of a billion a year....

That's a whole lotta clams....

 

[THARN]

When they add the hard drives- and mice/ keyboard periphs- then the consoles will be able to fully compete with the computer for certain types of games. Then it will just be personal preference on where the gamer likes to sit- desk/or living room.

good to see some passionate debate here, sad that it's all based on opinion.

 

[garric]

Hmm. My apologies for thoroughly misinterpreting your post...

I agree that consoles are re-inventing themselves to be more like computers... But I would like to offer a counter-observation and a bit of an add-on (not a total disagreement, mind you)

Consoles are reinventing themselves to be more like the entire home entertainment theater.

Think about it, for two generations (counting the upcoming) they have been able to take over everything your DVD player could do, as well as many things your stereo could do. In this next evolution, Consoles are becoming the bridge between your home computer and your home theater. the x360 is *literally* this bridge, as it allows Windows Media Center edition to broadcast multimedia to the console, which in turn displays it on your tv (or plays it on your surround sound stereo, or both)

An interesting observation would be if consoles grew mice and keyboards as standard -- would you be able to install PC Games on them?

I agree that computers will always have a place in our homes -- but as consoles evolve, will they replace computers entirely, or will computers evolve new uses that consoles cannot handle? About the only thing I don't foresee consoles taking over any time soon is the ability to use scanners and printers... email is the next obvious step in XBox Live... web browsing is already in our PSP's... it should be interesting to see.

I would like to add an unrelated comment: The price of console video games in the next generation is going up to $59.99 for non-LE copies... $69.99 for some LE's. Don't be too surprised to see PC-only games follow suit soon... they share many of the same developers, after all. (Civ4 of course is only $49.99)


To garric: thanks for the wonderful PM. In fact, I loved it so much I'll show the whole world how down to earth and outgoing you are:


fwiw, I hate gamespot.

The reason I flamed you, was because you made one of the most ignorant posts ever, for the reasons I have described earlier. Your utter ignorance of almost everything, from the XBOX's specifications, to what the "top of the line" video card is, completely infuriated me.

Just leave these forums, you've done enough damage. You have proven that you don't know anything about anything, that you have come here to hype up the XBOX360 for some reason (To justify your purchase?). Do us all a favor and just leave and never come back.

 

[eddie_verdde]

oh it will sell like hot cookies, I'm sure...the 3D graphics alone will attract lots of new players, regardless they like strategy in turns or not...

 

[Slax]

PCs and consoles will merge eventually. There is no need for the two to coexist.