Ok. Don't agree at all and don't appreciate the insults or snotty attitude. There is no use talking to you, anymore. I will now avail myself of a certain forum option. Goodbye.
Civ Ideas & Suggestions Not-Worth-Their-Own-Thread
- Thread starter Camikaze
- Start date
Uh...what? Not once did I insult you in any way. If facts come across as "insults" and "snotty attitude," then I quite agree that there's nothing to discuss.
For those who would like some less biased reading on Urartu, there are some articles on one of my favorite sources for all things related to the Greater Persian area, Encyclopaedia Iranica. Encyclopaedia Iranica is a database maintained by the Dutch Brill Academic Publishers (and if you have any experience in academic research, you probably know and love Brill well) dedicated to gathering and publishing knowledge about the Persian peoples, their neighbors, and their influences. A good summary of Urartu and the Urartian language can be found there. This article is a good summary of how little we know about Achaemenid Armenia, including its precise location and who lived there. As this article points out, the Persians understood the difference between Urartians and Armenians, but they were also beginning to conflate the two as the Urartians faded in significance and the Armenians rose up to replace them.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
One important caveat for anyone looking up anything about ancient peoples, cultures, documents, etc.. There is a great deal of 'revised' information coming out all the time from new scientific studies and technologies being applied to archeology: DNA studies, ground-penetrating devices and airborne infrared, radar, etc, and new documents being discovered under other documents. It is an exiting time to be studying this stuff
BUT
All the new technological studies are constantly changing. This is In-Progress stuff, and some of it is distinctly Early Days. Just for an example, the Ancient DNA Database still has massive gaps in it, especially with regards to Africa, south and southeast Asia, and many parts of the Americas. In this specific case, parts of the Middle East as well: Even Europe, which has the largest percentage of the ancient DNA samples catalogued, is providing information from less than 3000 total samples taken from, literally, millions of people over more than fifty centuries.
Everything you read is subject to revision next week, as another study, more information, refined technologies are applied to archeological studies. ALL conclusions are tentative, and subject to revision.
Keep that in mind, please, whenever we are discussing the continuity or origins or antiquity of any culture or group of people: what we don't really know, what we are guessing at or inferring or deducting, far outweighs anything we know for certain, and all the deductions, inferences, guesses and 'conclusions' are subject to the old maxim:
"We are Here and this is Now: everything else is madness and confusion."
Indeed, Boris. Certainly there are some wonderful new technologies coming on line. The ground penetrating radar has uncovered buried temples in Central America. I have found out through DNA evidence that I am descended from Godred Crovan the King of the Isle of Man and Dublin. Pretty cool. 
www.geni.com
As for Armenia, there is a life and death struggle for their heritage. Considering their genocidal neighbours and the ethnic cleansing that went on and is still going on plus the cultural cleansing that is ongoing, this is a very serious matter. It shouldn't be taken lightly or flippantly. (Not saying you in particular.)
For example:
www.theguardian.com
Anyway, I will post more on Armenia in a Civ VII ideas and suggestions thread in proper detail in the future and not derail this thread any further.
Լավ մնա։
Godred "Crovan", King of the Isle of Man and of Dublin
Genealogy profile for Godred "Crovan", King of the Isle of Man and of Dublin
As for Armenia, there is a life and death struggle for their heritage. Considering their genocidal neighbours and the ethnic cleansing that went on and is still going on plus the cultural cleansing that is ongoing, this is a very serious matter. It shouldn't be taken lightly or flippantly. (Not saying you in particular.)
For example:
Monumental loss: Azerbaijan and 'the worst cultural genocide of the 21st century'
A damning new report details an attempted erasure by Azerbaijan of its Armenian cultural heritage, including the destruction of tens of thousands of Unesco-protected ancient stone carvings
Anyway, I will post more on Armenia in a Civ VII ideas and suggestions thread in proper detail in the future and not derail this thread any further.
Լավ մնա։
Saxo Grammaticus
Clerk
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2021
- Messages
- 684
Well, I am sorry to return to such discord, but I have to say thank you to @Thormodr for sharing inspiration, as well as to @Zaarin and @Boris Gudenuf for their historical perspectives. Once again, I have learned more than I would have asked for, and if that isn't the spirit of Civilization, I don't know what is!
Civ, as well as Paradox games, are wonderful because we get to learn so much about the world around us.
As for game ideas, I wish there was an expel diplomats option. Say if another civ had an embassy with you and they invaded a city state that you had considerable investment in, you could do so.
In Victoria 3, you can expel diplomats but at a great hit to your relations.
Geatshead98
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2022
- Messages
- 9
What about Cumbria? I would love to see King Dunmail to be in Civilization 7. If Poundmaker can appear in Civ 6: Rise and Fall, why not the Cumbrians?
awesome
Meme Lord
I’d expect Ireland to show up first (or Scotland again)
ViterboKnight
King
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2006
- Messages
- 795
Civ 7 - make rules and features to be optional
Veteran Civ player (1992), in the last years moving from "assiduos" to "occasional" player.
In my opinion, Civ 6 is fine, but there are too many rules and features to be taken into account.
Civ and leader traits are often situation specific.
There are many many policies, and often you'd better know them all to switch them efficiently.
Religion is a constant business, both in the choice of beliefs, and in the religious units to be deployed.
The world congress is.... well, in my game style, just a waste of time while playing! I find it totally useless.
Governors.... well, I actually like that, but it's just another stuff to remember and manage.
Appeal, global warming, tourism...... I usually tend to ignore all these aspects.
Espionage, I don't like to play it, but if I overlook it, the AI has easy time with me.
City states: each city state gives different benefits, and each benefit is often situation specific.
My personal experience is that all those factors distract me from the main flow of the game, and if added all together, it's too difficult to remember them all and to use them effectively.
Anyway, apart of my personal preferences, I'd like that most of the game rules and features were "optionals": add game options to enable/disable each of them (or at least, most of them).
In my opinion, most important ones are:
- Espionage
- World congress
Other possibilities could be:
- Religion
- Civ leaders and traits (yes it flattens the game, but I think that it's easy to implement, and some people could like it, me included sometimes!!)
- Governors
- Global warming
Maybe, the main issue of such thing could be, if a feature is disabled, how to handle all the aspects that impact on that feature (for ex., if espionage is disabled, how to handle the Intelligence Agency?).
Veteran Civ player (1992), in the last years moving from "assiduos" to "occasional" player.
In my opinion, Civ 6 is fine, but there are too many rules and features to be taken into account.
Civ and leader traits are often situation specific.
There are many many policies, and often you'd better know them all to switch them efficiently.
Religion is a constant business, both in the choice of beliefs, and in the religious units to be deployed.
The world congress is.... well, in my game style, just a waste of time while playing! I find it totally useless.
Governors.... well, I actually like that, but it's just another stuff to remember and manage.
Appeal, global warming, tourism...... I usually tend to ignore all these aspects.
Espionage, I don't like to play it, but if I overlook it, the AI has easy time with me.
City states: each city state gives different benefits, and each benefit is often situation specific.
My personal experience is that all those factors distract me from the main flow of the game, and if added all together, it's too difficult to remember them all and to use them effectively.
Anyway, apart of my personal preferences, I'd like that most of the game rules and features were "optionals": add game options to enable/disable each of them (or at least, most of them).
In my opinion, most important ones are:
- Espionage
- World congress
Other possibilities could be:
- Religion
- Civ leaders and traits (yes it flattens the game, but I think that it's easy to implement, and some people could like it, me included sometimes!!)
- Governors
- Global warming
Maybe, the main issue of such thing could be, if a feature is disabled, how to handle all the aspects that impact on that feature (for ex., if espionage is disabled, how to handle the Intelligence Agency?).
AffineConstant
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2022
- Messages
- 132
Went back played a game of V
Some of the biggest improvements in VI were things like making sure a world wonder took up a hex. It made the whole thing both more strategic, and more "real". Oh, there's the eiffel tower right there!
If there's just a general, tone, for VII to follow it would be more of that. Make things physicalized on the map, not off on their own menu screen. This mean no more governors, no more world congress, they don't even interact with the map properly, just very indirectly.
I'd love to see religion somehow better represented on the map, as well as cultures. "This" place has "this" religion, in a way you can see at a glance and that "takes up space". Rather than having to double check a series of icons and hope to see a religious unit (which rarely happens anyway unless you're building them).
Even artifacts in museums could be done this way. There's already some "on the map" artifacts. But the discovery and fight over a number of ancient egyptian artifacts, including the rosetta stone, happened right during the Napoleonic wars. Being able to raid an archaeologist unit carrying an artifact back would be interesting, as just one example.
Some of the biggest improvements in VI were things like making sure a world wonder took up a hex. It made the whole thing both more strategic, and more "real". Oh, there's the eiffel tower right there!
If there's just a general, tone, for VII to follow it would be more of that. Make things physicalized on the map, not off on their own menu screen. This mean no more governors, no more world congress, they don't even interact with the map properly, just very indirectly.
I'd love to see religion somehow better represented on the map, as well as cultures. "This" place has "this" religion, in a way you can see at a glance and that "takes up space". Rather than having to double check a series of icons and hope to see a religious unit (which rarely happens anyway unless you're building them).
Even artifacts in museums could be done this way. There's already some "on the map" artifacts. But the discovery and fight over a number of ancient egyptian artifacts, including the rosetta stone, happened right during the Napoleonic wars. Being able to raid an archaeologist unit carrying an artifact back would be interesting, as just one example.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Outright theft from archeologists is relatively rare - more often, it was either theft by bandits who had already looted the site before the archeologists got there, or theft by the government that sent out the archeologists or from which the archeologists originated, much of which is still not resolved between countries of Origin (including the equivalent of Civ VI's City States) and the country In Possession (Looking at You, Elgin Marbles!)
AffineConstant
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2022
- Messages
- 132
I mean, sure, but the point is it's a fun mechanic that's also perfectly historical. Just expand it, maybe barbarian units could loot artifacts. Maybe they can loot museums, after all they already do so. It'd almost be interesting to see a new class of barbarian units called "criminals" somehow, treasure hunters and otherwise. Maybe instead of "unhappiness" directly sapping your resource production, unhappiness could produce criminal units that wander around like barbarians and block resources. You need either police units to get rid of them or to raise happiness (whatever) to stop producing more criminal units.
Just an idea, or series of ideas.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Actually, and reinforcing this, some time ago I proposed a class of Great People called Great Felons - historical characters like Jesse James, Ned Kelley, Guy Fawkes, Stenka Razin, Rob Roy, Adam Worth, Charles Ponzi, etc. One or more of these could have an 'Art/Artifact Theft' ability attached to pilfer Great Works or Archeological Artifacts right out of Museums and other 'galleries'.
Dort of a very specialized class of Spy in game terms . . .
For Ponzi, Stock Exchange I'd imagine, but more generally?A foreign city should not be considered as captured if it is going to turn independent in a few turns or has loyalty below a certain threshold (both or either). This would require players to take greater care during the end stages of a domination victory. It would prevent people from only capturing a few cities of their last opponent, and allow opponents whose capitals have been captured to sabotage loyalty with spies. It doesn't make much sense for a player to win if they are guaranteed to lose their win condition if the game continued for a few turns.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,787
I like what you're saying, but it's the case in many games.
In chess you can win and yet the other may have stronger force for the next turns.
In Starcraft 2 sometimes you trade base and the first who raze the other one wins, even with a smaller army (e.g. nukes).
So a win condition has to be on an exact turn situation and not the next.
I do agree the win condition for domination could be rewritten though. But if it is not thought carefully, it might just make an already won game last 10 turns more, and that would be worse than today.
I don't think my suggestion is simply extending the game but making it harder. If loyalty matters in a domination game, people would play it differently. Additionally, this opens up room for some new maluses for poor loyalty, bonuses for high and maybe more ways to raise/lower it. Razing cities should tank loyalty of neighbouring cities of the same civilization, rather than easing the pressure. You could have strikes neutering districts of the same type within a certain number of tiles, the lower the loyalty, the more likely it is to happen, the larger the more cities it effects, and the longer lasts etc.. Perhaps, in newly conquered cities, it might be better to call loyalty something else, like unrest, for a certain number of turns. The city can either revolt early, and the end of the term if loyalty isn't high enough, else it's considered integrated and held
- Joined
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- Messages
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What you describe feels like the culture system of Civ IV: https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Culture_(Civ4)
It worked very well in that regard.
It worked very well in that regard.
Ekmek
on steam: ekmek_e
Last game I had loyalty was a big factor in taking cities, I had to shift governors a few times. grante dthis was on another continent. I even lost a city.
I would add maybe partisans shoudl pop out when you take a city liek they did in civ2
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