Civil War

[wolfjesus]

It's a great mod for unique cultural design of cities and units and I love it. thank credits for that. I'm glad to hear a "civic war" trigger is about to be added because in the late period of game there were only some huge old empires and new faces never appeared.

just a suggestion for civil war: why not merging the Revolution mod (or Revolution Dcm) with your fantastic mod? If so, some unrealistic issues of civil war trigger could be avoided and the game will be much better fun.



the Rev modpack: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=262937

 

[Xyth]

It's a great mod for unique cultural design of cities and units and I love it. thank credits for that. I'm glad to hear a "civic war" trigger is about to be added because in the late period of game there were only some huge old empires and new faces never appeared.

just a suggestion for civil war: why not merging the Revolution mod (or Revolution Dcm) with your fantastic mod? If so, some unrealistic issues of civil war trigger could be avoided and the game will be much better fun.



the Rev modpack: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=262937

Revolution and RevDCM are based on a custom DLL, which don't work on Mac (or with multiplayer, unless that's been fixed recently). Thus the need to work on a new implementation, hopefully for 1.19. Glad to hear you're enjoying the mod!

 

[kiwitt]

Have you thought about adding partisans when a city get taken?

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

If you're still planning on adding this, I think that these should be the conditions (Any, not all):

- A large drop in GDP (Amount of commerce).
- Destruction of the capital.
- Massive colonial expenses.

 

[lindsay40k]

There's already two similar events to this, aren't there? An overseas colony can declare independence. A culture-pwned city can flip.

I've generally played cautiously with colonies and not had one get so mad it does a Washington on me, so I don't really understand that aspect. But I do get the 'X rival culture - Y units maintaining order >>> Z chance of a riot' thing, and it's not a rare event, especially if someone's playing for a Culture win.

How about expanding on that a bit, so this new feature feels familiar? Add unhappiness and starvation to the 'causes a chance of a riot' odds; make it so that if you've got more than 50% culture in the city, should you fail to maintain order in it then it declares independence. If your culture is a minority one, then the city flips to whomever has the most culture in there.

If this isn't an option with the coding tools available for a Mac Mod, then perhaps making a separate 'chance of a riot by rebels' system that works similarly to the culture flip.

This does of course mean that there's no chance of a stack joining the revolution. But then I'm not sure that's really a common thing in history; the free draft units seem fair enough to represent the partisans and deserters. And it means that any regime can always send an army in to a city that's kicking off.

I think it'd be interesting if a successfully rebelled city were to exert pressure on all nearby cities, regardless of origin; I seem to recall that when Paris rebelled in 1871, Bismark freed French POW's out of fear that a domino effect would start and reach people under his rule. Obviously that detail's beyond the scope of a modest Civ 4 mod, but the principle of oppressive rulers having a common interest in crushing uppity proles seems to be one that has merit.

Here's another thought; could the leader of the new civ be made less random? A city with lots of Commerce buildings will probably be led to independence by a Financial leader, one with lots of Religious buildings will probably have a Spiritual leader, etc. Perhaps certain National or World Wonders present in a rebel city could almost guarantee a rebel leader of a certain trait, or preferred civic. If your Heroic Epic city falls, you can bet Napoleon or Hannibal's stabbed you in the back!

 

[inasnapp]

This does of course mean that there's no chance of a stack joining the revolution. But then I'm not sure that's really a common thing in history; the free draft units seem fair enough to represent the partisans and deserters. And it means that any regime can always send an army in to a city that's kicking off.

Might a rebel civ also get free units like when you grant a colony independence?

 

[lindsay40k]

As I recall, cities that 'peacefully' flip - be they culture pwned or released colonies - get a few Draft units and that's it. If you had a stack in there when the flip happened, they stay under your control. Gift some of them to the new owner if you want them to be an effective buffer to Monty and co...

 

[Skidizzle]

There's already two similar events to this, aren't there? An overseas colony can declare independence. A culture-pwned city can flip.

I've generally played cautiously with colonies and not had one get so mad it does a Washington on me, so I don't really understand that aspect.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this different because you've already given your colonies independence anyway but under a vassal/protectorate status?

But I do get the 'X rival culture - Y units maintaining order >>> Z chance of a riot' thing, and it's not a rare event, especially if someone's playing for a Culture win.

How about expanding on that a bit, so this new feature feels familiar? Add unhappiness and starvation to the 'causes a chance of a riot' odds; make it so that if you've got more than 50% culture in the city, should you fail to maintain order in it, then it declares independence. If your culture is a minority one, then the city flips to whomever has the most culture in there.

If this isn't an option with the coding tools available for a Mac Mod, then perhaps making a separate 'chance of a riot by rebels' system that works similarly to the culture flip.

I definitely like where you're going with these ideas. Perhaps adding a greater chance of rioting during periods of anarchy. Thus making great people and golden ages more important to changing civics.

But as for cities that don't have competing cultures within them, how do we gage their chances to succeed? Say if I were Portugal and settled along the Brazilian coast. I shouldn't have anyone to compete against culture wise but if I poorly managed those cities I would expect them to revolt.

This does of course mean that there's no chance of a stack joining the revolution. But then I'm not sure that's really a common thing in history; the free draft units seem fair enough to represent the partisans and deserters. And it means that any regime can always send an army in to a city that's kicking off.

I think it'd be interesting if a successfully rebelled city were to exert pressure on all nearby cities, regardless of origin; I seem to recall that when Paris rebelled in 1871, Bismark freed French POW's out of fear that a domino effect would start and reach people under his rule. Obviously that detail's beyond the scope of a modest Civ 4 mod, but the principle of oppressive rulers having a common interest in crushing uppity proles seems to be one that has merit.

Here's another thought; could the leader of the new civ be made less random? A city with lots of Commerce buildings will probably be led to independence by a Financial leader, one with lots of Religious buildings will probably have a Spiritual leader, etc. Perhaps certain National or World Wonders present in a rebel city could almost guarantee a rebel leader of a certain trait, or preferred civic. If your Heroic Epic city falls, you can bet Napoleon or Hannibal's stabbed you in the back!

Really if none of these things are able to be coded. Would it be possible to have it occur via the random events system? Then we could use whatever we all agree should be the baseline for poor city management and add flavor to it. Like adding other triggers that are more specific such as switching out of slavery causes cities with 2 or more plantations to have greater chances to riot.

 

[lindsay40k]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this different because you've already given your colonies independence anyway but under a vassal/protectorate status?

I don't know. I recall hearing something about 'colonies' being capable of doing a Washington, and upkeep being a factor. As in, you usually have the option to turn your offshore settlements into a vassal with +10, but if they cost an absolute fortune they may decide to breakaway and be independent.

This might have been a poorly explained or poorly remembered description of a colony granted independence then being squeezed for tribute so much it overcomes the +10 and declares war as a vassal.

 

[Simon_Jester]

I perceive a problem with culture flipping.

In my experience, the AI just moves huge hordes of troops into a city to bring the revolt probability back down; it doesn't seem to affect them. Am I missing something?

 

[Louis the XIV]

Can someone please modify this event in such a way that the new civ gets more units and that cities within a close range of your capital can't revolt?
P.S. I know it's been 12 years since the last message was sent I just really need help with this!