Civil War

[kairob]

i think this is a great idea and should happen more the further from the capital they are and if they are on a different continent!
like the american civel war, austalian independence, spain giving mexeco, chilli, brazil, away etc..

 

[Hispanicus]

Just an idea to implement civil wars using civics:

1) WITH ANNOUNCED RULES:
Changing civics like Religion or Slavery could lead to revolt in a country where there are more than 1 religion or where some cities use/have used lately slaves.
Changing from monarchy to republic would lead to royalist´ cities revolt.
In the same way, converting you country to a new religion could lead to the revolt of cities devoted of the former religion.
This revolt would spawn a new civilization automatically at war with you.

2) THE REBELLION OPTION:
Obviously that rule is hard that no one would like to change civics or convert their civ to other religion.
A better idea would be that the revolts could lead to divide your civ in 2 factions: "loyal" and "rebel". Loyals and rebels are allways at war, but foreign countries can´t attack rebel cities if there are not at war with you. Civil war would only happen if your country is at peace with everybody, and if other civ declare war to you during civil war it ceases and both loyal and rebels re-unifies to combar their common foes.
In exchange, when a civ is under civil war status, other civs would have a new diplomatic option: "support rebellion". That would mean that they are at war with the loyals and allied (free passage) with the revolts, and in case of capturing a city to the loyals, the city would be automatically owned by the revolts.
This way The participation in other country civil war would lead to no territorial gain. The benefits of giving support to the winner side would be just a better relationship with the country after the civil war´s end.
There could be also a "support loyal" option.
A peace teatry beetween loyals and rebels could lead to the creation of a new civilization with the rebel cities.

Example: AMERICAN HISTORY X. The english civ in the XVIII cent. has expanded and has cities in other continents.
After changing civics to "absolute monarchy", of after increasing taxation, some of the far cities revolt forming the "republican side".
The republican faction, after controling all the far cities, with a little help from the frenchs, offers peace, if the loyals accept that could lead to the creation of a new civ: "the americans", that would start at the XVIII Cent. as a republic and not at 4000 BC as despotism.
The new country would have the same civics of the older one, except that which has been their "cause" (republic in this case).
Later in time the american player decide to ban slavery. This causes a rebellion of a group of cities and a civil war.
By defeating the rebellion taking all the rebel cities the americans elude the creation of the CSA civilization.

Sorry for the lenght!

 

[Icmancin]

1. Sorry everyone for bumping this.
2. Sorry if someone has something similar; I didn't want to read 11 pages

IDEA 1: Colonial Wars

Lets say you settle a city of group of cities on a faraway Island of Continent, corruption is rampant but you NEED these cities. Maybe you can rightclick the city and select the option "Create Colony". You'd then choose a name for the colony and the first city in that colony would be the colonial capital. You can then select the option "Add to colony..."

Colonies would be semi-independant cities that would function as a sort-of puppet government. They would have a Forbidden Palace and the AI would micro-manage and build their own units. You are the mother country so you can change what they build and where the units go but mainly it is the Colonial government that does that. Too much management by you can generate unhappiness by the colonists.

The Colonies would be automatically in a Right of Passage and Mutual Protection Pact with you. They can't declare war but they have to if you do. But lets say that the people are very unhappy (want more improvements, more INDEPENDANCE, freedoms) and you try to quell that with soldiers. That makes them moe unhappy and they rebel and set up a new government with their Colonial name.

The rebels can convert their city faces into a Resistance unit (guerrilla, separitist etc) as well as build their own units. Now you've lost a Colony in a independance struggle and have to reclaim it or just let it be.

IDEA 2: Independance War

Lets take a nation, say Russia. Russia hass conquered Germany and Rome. Now you have the choice of ethier setting up a Protectorate (similar to a colony but you express less control on the people, just the military) or to keep full control and try to assimilate the people into Russia. Russia has chosen to assimilate them. The Germans don't like this. Once unhappiness and corruption has reached a certain limit the German citizens in German cities convert into resisting military units and fight it to the death with as many garrison units as possible. If they win they set up Germany again and the Russian army has to recapture the resisting cities.

IDEA 3: Revolution

Russia has just become a Theocratic Hereditary Police State and the Romans, Germans and some Russians don't like that. Together those nations start to separate into one large multi-ethnic country that is a Emancipated Communal Democracy. Now Russia is fighting a Civil war of freedoms and ideologies.

Well thats all. I'm sorry if I bumped this and its an annoyance or if someones already said the exact same thing.

 

[mastertyguy]

Good! I like your your concept.
Btw, no problem bumping this old thread

 

[Icmancin]

Thanks. I have some more ideas which I hope (one day) to organize and put in the main ideas thread. Civil War and revolution was the main one. I also has another idea which would intertwine with Corruption and Anarchy:

IDEA 4: Anarchy (it might be different in cIV due to gov changes)

The Anarchy in Civ III was.... different. It did cease all production but there was no action (unless adding some specialist is action to you). I was thinking a chart of favoured and least favoured gorvernment styles for every Civ and when you entered Anarchy it would add Civil War Points to the pile.

Civil War Points would be when a country hosts a Revolution for another government style. It would be the total amount of corruption for that turn, what government you're hosting a revolution for, and the unhappiness of ethnic and religous minorities in the country. If the Civil War Points reach a certain high then a Civil War insues. Something like this:

Russia is a government with Marxist ideologies. Lets say this is there favoured. They want a Revolution for a full-scale Capitalist ideology, their least favoured. This makes people in the Eastern Provinces (Vladivostok, Orenburg,Yakutsk,Irkutsk) very unhappy. Corruption this turn was 54 + 12 unhappy faces in the Eastern Provinces. In the far east the ethnic Germans and Romans fell threatened because of the transition to the most unlike government to the ethnic Russians. 20 unhappy faces from Germany and Rome because of that. Then they are Christian but the Russians had a successful transition to Judaism before the invasions of Germany and Rome. They fear that a Capitalist government would allow Judaist organization to spring up all over the country. This produces 10 more unhappy faces.

54+12+20+10=98 Depending on which government you are going to and which one to are going to determines how many civil war points you need. Instead of going to Anarchy in this case you will instead go to your selected government and the most corrupt and unhappy cities (in this case the East) will set up theirs. You will now contend with, instead of rioting, civil war.

The breakaway cities will ethier set up a country called, in this case:

East Russia
Rome
Germany
Germany and Rome
Marxist Russia

Wow.. Longer than I thought.

 

[Icmancin]

Oh, I forgot to mention that during any kind of Civil war an AI can join etheir your side or the rebels by:

Selling Units
Using Embargoes
Selling Resources
Joining a Military alliance

I think Civil wars would be great. This is just how I'd like to see them

 

[Shigga]

I don't mind it being implemented. Personally, I think civil wars are a HUGE annoyance, so it should be a feature that can be deselected when creating a new game.

 

[mastertyguy]

Bah! You can mod anything!

 

[Legionary37]

Civil wars are a musthave. It's one of the ways that the devolpers can balance out the overpowering "conquer all" strategy. I remember playing Civ 2, if I was particularly large and powerful, and my enemy managed to capture my capital, my cities would all switch to either the "loyalist" or "rebel" faction. I would then decide which to stay with!

I think a system similar to the one posted above would be excellent.

 

[panama 1984]

correct me if im wrong but... wasnt there a civil war system in civ2?


edit: wow this hasnt been posted on in a while...

 

[damir_k87]

yeah there was, and for me it completely sucked.
Ur civ is going fine, and then out of nowhere half ur civilization revolts, and u had no clue about it.

i think that they should implement civil war in the next Civ, but i think that they should be really really really careful how they implement it. cuz if they get it wrong, it can ruin the whole game

 

[dh_epic]

The Civil War system in Civilization 2 was way too game-breaking. It was better to not have one at all.

A good civil war system would be a little more complex. Less black and white.

 

[dh_epic]

Argh. Double post.

 

[Rumpullpus]

so hu after all this is somone going to make a mod that has revolutions in it? if there is i would like a link or somthing because this sounds way too cool

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, have you tried Trip's Rebellion Mod? Not quite what is being asked for here, but along the same lines. Under certain conditions, there is a much higher chance of barbarian units springing up next to a city-such as when you have mixed ethnicites in a city, or multiple religions, or a high unhappy to happy/unhealthy to healthy ratio, or when the city is a long way from your capital, or under certain civics. Check it out, it might be right up your alley !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Rumpullpus]

thx i will

 

[Ih8backstabbers]

This is a very good idea!

 

[balthamael]

love this idea, would be a nice touch if the anmes of the civil war faction leaders was a rebel from real history eg if you were England you would Oliver Cromwell,etc etc

 

[Olleus]

Just an idea to implement civil wars using civics:

1) WITH ANNOUNCED RULES:
Changing civics like Religion or Slavery could lead to revolt in a country where there are more than 1 religion or where some cities use/have used lately slaves.
Changing from monarchy to republic would lead to royalist´ cities revolt.
In the same way, converting you country to a new religion could lead to the revolt of cities devoted of the former religion.
This revolt would spawn a new civilization automatically at war with you.

2) THE REBELLION OPTION:
Obviously that rule is hard that no one would like to change civics or convert their civ to other religion.
A better idea would be that the revolts could lead to divide your civ in 2 factions: "loyal" and "rebel". Loyals and rebels are allways at war, but foreign countries can´t attack rebel cities if there are not at war with you. Civil war would only happen if your country is at peace with everybody, and if other civ declare war to you during civil war it ceases and both loyal and rebels re-unifies to combar their common foes.
In exchange, when a civ is under civil war status, other civs would have a new diplomatic option: "support rebellion". That would mean that they are at war with the loyals and allied (free passage) with the revolts, and in case of capturing a city to the loyals, the city would be automatically owned by the revolts.
This way The participation in other country civil war would lead to no territorial gain. The benefits of giving support to the winner side would be just a better relationship with the country after the civil war´s end.
There could be also a "support loyal" option.
A peace teatry beetween loyals and rebels could lead to the creation of a new civilization with the rebel cities.

Example: AMERICAN HISTORY X. The english civ in the XVIII cent. has expanded and has cities in other continents.
After changing civics to "absolute monarchy", of after increasing taxation, some of the far cities revolt forming the "republican side".
The republican faction, after controling all the far cities, with a little help from the frenchs, offers peace, if the loyals accept that could lead to the creation of a new civ: "the americans", that would start at the XVIII Cent. as a republic and not at 4000 BC as despotism.
The new country would have the same civics of the older one, except that which has been their "cause" (republic in this case).
Later in time the american player decide to ban slavery. This causes a rebellion of a group of cities and a civil war.
By defeating the rebellion taking all the rebel cities the americans elude the creation of the CSA civilization.

Sorry for the huge quote.
Idea 2 is sheer brilliance, I personaly love it!! Maybe happiness distance to capitol, culture of revolting cities compared to capitol (ie. a cultaruly weak capitol would have a harder time holding on to its cities), total commerce of city compared to capitol (ie. a very rich city would be more likely to fall away). Of course all these things are factors affecting how likely it is that cities rebel, but can not trigger a rebellion itself. Only a change of civic/religion or prolonged unhappy people could do this. Also the factors above should determine how much of a cities culture becomes 'loyal' and 'rebel'. So in effect all of your cities would partly rebel but only those with over 50% 'rebel' culture would flip to a 'rebel' state (creating one in the process)

I hope this made sence.
btw: is it possible to use python to create a new civ ingame?

 

[slc193]

I think this makes sense. BUT....there needs to be a way to deal with it. Maybe the development of the printing press reduces this effect by some percentage, and then the same for radio or mass media, and/or fiber optics (to represent the internet).