[R&F] Civilization Ability Elimination Thread

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Arabia- Last Prophet:[8-3=5]
Last religion sucks.Too much religion oriented
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil-Amazon:[12+1=13]
Good bonus and suits Brazil especially in TSL maps
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France-Grand Tour:[8]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [21]
Greece - Plato's Republic [26]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [21]
Kongo - Nkisi [21]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [12]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [23]
Norway - Knarr [12]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [22]
Zulu - Isibongo [22]
 
Arabia - The Last Prophet [9] (8+1) - A very powerful ability, like... religion is the motor that drives Arabia into insane science and culture yields and an ability that guarantees them a religion is needless to say, very strong. The downvoting seems to stem from BITTERNESS derived from the AI snatching the prophet. Don't blame the AI for your own incompetence, darlings. It's unbecoming.
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [12]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [8]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [21]
Greece - Plato's Republic [26]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [18] (21-3) - WHY DOES THIS BOARD OVERRATE JAPAN ALL THE TIME???? ugh. I mean, the bonus is more reliable than that of other adjacency bonuses, but by the same token, it's also... significantly weaker than all the other adjacency bonuses. Brazil have the best generic Campuses in the game, Australia swim in money due to all of those estuary Comm Hubs, Netherlands can get insane production in their cities with their river-side IZs. +4 Theatre Squares are child's play for any of these Civs, compared to Japan, who still need two districts AND a wonder to receive the same bonus.
Kongo - Nkisi [21]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [12]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [23]
Norway - Knarr [12]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [22]
Zulu - Isibongo [22]
 
Arabia - The Last Prophet [9-3=6] - Maybe at diety this is actually useful, but at prince/king its next to useless. The AI takes for ever to found the other religions and the most useful beliefs are gone if Arabia waits for this to kick in.
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [12]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [8]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [21]
Greece - Plato's Republic [26]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [18]
Kongo - Nkisi [21]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [12]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [23+1=24] - Excellent bonuses as soon as you complete a district.
Norway - Knarr [12]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [22]
Zulu - Isibongo [22]
 
The Last Prophet is good anyway because without it Righteousness of the Faith doesn't work. No religion for Arabia means *no* +10% Culture and Science in their cities. You can try to rate it without recognizing its importance and synergy with Arabia's other bonuses, but really, yuo can't. (same applies to all of these bonuses btw. It's necessarily not about their *individual* strength, but how they fit within the overall design.)

Anyway, I am rambling a bit here because I'm posting a correction since the ratings in my previous post were wrong, so here are the corrected ratings.

Arabia - The Last Prophet [3]
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [13]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [8]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [21]
Greece - Plato's Republic [26]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [18]
Kongo - Nkisi [21]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [12]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [12]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [22]
Zulu - Isibongo [22]
 
Arabia - The Last Prophet [3]
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [13]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [8-3=5] boring and not particularly strong
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [21]
Greece - Plato's Republic [26]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [18]
Kongo - Nkisi [21]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [12+1=13] The +10 while in a golden age makes things interesting, whether playing for or against.
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [12]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [22]
Zulu - Isibongo [22]
 
edit: forgot to include WillowBrook & Lord_Lakely edit, the votes have been corrected

Arabia - The Last Prophet [3]
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [13+1=14] well, it makes rainforest useful (+1 appeal instead of -1 appeal for rainforest)
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [5]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [21]
Greece - Plato's Republic [26]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [18]
Kongo - Nkisi [21]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [13-3=10] well, not all of my cities get governor, and I tend to diversify where I build my unit
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [12]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [22]
Zulu - Isibongo [22]
 
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Arabia - The Last Prophet [3]
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [14]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [5]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [21]
Greece - Plato's Republic [26]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [18]
Kongo - Nkisi [21]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [10]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [12+1=13] Upvoting this one until GS changes chopping rules
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [22-3=19] My armies are strong enough early one even without CS. Instead of exploring, I war.
Zulu - Isibongo [22]
 
Arabia - The Last Prophet [3]
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [14]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [5]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [21]
Greece - Plato's Republic [26]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [18]
Kongo - Nkisi [21+1=22] - Apparently, an ability that allows you to spam great people on similar rate as Russia (and adds great merchants, quite desirable GP type) and helps cities with objects that attract tourism become rich and strong in production is somehow negative... I think not. But I guess that I, a King-playing peasant, will just stay in eternal misunderstanding and disagreement with the Deity pros who must complete their runs in 150 turns...
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [10]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [13-3=10] - Unfortunately, naval dominance is easy to achieve without any bonuses, and naval game is currently just not very important.
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [19]
Zulu - Isibongo [22]
 
Kimiimaro said:
Kongo - Nkisi [21+1=22] - Apparently, an ability that allows you to spam great people on similar rate as Russia (and adds great merchants, quite desirable GP type) and helps cities with objects that attract tourism become rich and strong in production is somehow negative... I think not. But I guess that I, a King-playing peasant, will just stay in eternal misunderstanding and disagreement with the Deity pros who must complete their runs in 150 turns...
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that the person who called it a negative is thinking about Mvemba's ability, and not Kongo's ability(which is what we should be voting on).
 
Arabia - The Last Prophet [3]
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [14]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [5]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [21]
Greece - Plato's Republic [26]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [18]
Kongo - Nkisi [19] (22-3) --- I'm not the fastest finisher in the world, but by the time I build the theatre square, ampitheatre, archeology museum plus archeologist, then explore to extract the artifacts, my game usually lasts another 5 turns or what-not making the extra food/gold/tourism better on paper than it is in practice. The relative lack of art museums due to archeology museums is also a problem for GA placement, and selling to AI's is counterproductive to a CV.
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [11] (10+1) --- I'm usually able to get quite allot of mileage out of the golden age +10. I generally stick to 4/5 movement cavalry units though and am able to shift to a new front in a smaller empire. If I have trouble reaching a front due to distance, I've already won and the +10 is less relevant.
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [10]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [19]
Zulu - Isibongo [22]
 
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Arabia - The Last Prophet [3]
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [14 + 1 = 15] I find this quite underestimated, maybe it's the best adjacency bonus after Meiji Restoration. A competent player can achieve high adjacency bonuses early in the game, and double them with certain political cards. And getting tropical forests is not difficult for Brazil.
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [5 - 3 = 2] I do not think this ability is weak, but there is a problem with this ability, while France is culturally oriented, the most important wonders for cultural victory are after the industrial era (Eiffel Tower and Cristo Redentor) when this ability no longer achieves. Another problem is that you need to build many wonders for the tourism bunus to be effective, you need a massive investment in science and culture for this.
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [21]
Greece - Plato's Republic [26]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [18]
Kongo - Nkisi [19]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [11]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [10]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [19]
Zulu - Isibongo [22]
 
Arabia - The Last Prophet [0] (3-3) Good riddance..... ELIMINATED
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [15]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [2]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [21]
Greece - Plato's Republic [26]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [19] (18+1) Again, a very fun ability that is also very powerful. Makes planning super-districts worthwhile and fun.
Kongo - Nkisi [19]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [11]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [10]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [19]
Zulu - Isibongo [22]
 
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [15]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [2]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [21]
Greece - Plato's Republic [26]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [19]
Kongo - Nkisi [19]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [8] = [11 - 3] -- The +10 CS is awfully nice but awfully inconsistent as well. Extra combat experience is ... ok ... i guess
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [10]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [19]
Zulu - Isibongo [23] = [22 + 1] -- Free corps/armies when capturing a city? So you don't have to produce additional units to form those corps/armies? Which means you can produce other stuff? And this saves time from marching units across the map in order to form those corps/armies? And it works with naval vessels as well? And you get extra loyalty when conquering cities with corps/armies? Yeah this is pretty good.
 
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [15]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [2]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [18=21-3] Only useful if you take advantage of the exploit to plop (or pre-plop, however you like to say it) down districts before you actually build them (to save on escalating hammer costs). I don't consider an ability that relies on an exploit that good.
Greece - Plato's Republic [27=26+1] Useful all game long. Forbidden Palace for fee, of course I still build FP as well for more wild card fun. Allows more use of those theater square adjacency and cultural building cards that we rarely use because of limited slots.
Japan - Meiji Restoration [19]
Kongo - Nkisi [19]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [8]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [10]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [19]
Zulu - Isibongo [23]
 
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [15]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [2]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [18+1=19] Useful even if you don't use an exploit. A tiny size 4 city can have a campus, hansa, and commercial hub. You can settle spam everywhere.
Greece - Plato's Republic [27]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [19]
Kongo - Nkisi [19]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [8]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [10-3=7] weak and only useful on water maps.
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [19]
Zulu - Isibongo [23]
 
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [15]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
France - Grand Tour: [ELIMINATED] [2-3] There are a bunch of useful wonders that benefit from this ability, and +20% towards the chops is really nice. However, I'm probably getting those wonders in a timely manner anyways (1 less chop perhaps?) and the double tourism isn't very much. Nice to have, but time to go.
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic [27]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [19]
Kongo - Nkisi [20] [19+1] Not sure which version of Civ VI had this yield negative bonuses. I've played all the versions of Civ VI, so Civ I maybe? The +50% GP points is borderline OP, and the 5 slots is great for immediate culture output (how many times have you had a GWAM with no slots to put them in?) as well as buffing your "Reyna city". The yields from artifacts is a nice mid-late game buff, as it's pretty easy to get 3 or 4 cities themed, although it's useful without the theming. The relic and sculpture yields are just gravy. Kongo is easily one of the best Culture civs because of this ability alone. Mass culture aids in science victories as well.
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [8]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [7]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [19]
Zulu - Isibongo [23]
 
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [15]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic [27]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [19+1=20] Easy to get great adjacency bonuses. Very powerful
Kongo - Nkisi [20]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [8]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [7]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [26-3=23] Starting with extra tiles is good, but Russia's start bias is tundra which is a big negative.
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [19]
Zulu - Isibongo [23]
 
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [15]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic [28] (27+1) A free policy from the start of the game is amazing.
Japan - Meiji Restoration [20]
Kongo - Nkisi [20]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [5] (8-3) I find governor micromanaging really unfun, I find doing it to get a 25% xp bonus that isn't tracked on the units anywhere even less so. The combat bonus against golden age is nice for sure, but I typically avoid going to war with civs in golden ages.
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [7]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [23]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [19]
Zulu - Isibongo [23]
 
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [15]
Cree - Nihithaw: [27-3=24] Why is this above Mongolia, Scotland and Russia? All this provides is a few extra tiles (way fewer than Russia gets you) and an extra trader (nice but an extra trader is weaker that Russia's tundra bonus).
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic [28]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [20]
Kongo - Nkisi [20+1=21] One of the top abilities, probably the best for cultural victory.
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [5]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [7]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24]
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [23]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [19]
Zulu - Isibongo [23]
 
Australia - Land Down Under [22]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns [25]
Brazil - Amazon: [15]
Cree - Nihithaw: [24]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic [28]
Japan - Meiji Restoration [20]
Kongo - Nkisi [21].
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [5]
Mongolia - Ortoo [23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren [24]
Norway - Knarr [7]
Nubia - Ta-Seti [24-3=21] Time to kick this much vaunted ability in the head. With another 4 civs (Egypt, Zulu, Kongo, and Arabia) in Africa on large Terra TSL maps, Nubia needs its UA to survive, and occasionally come out ahead. In the long run, she's dead.
Persia - Satrapies [21]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome [25]
Russia - Mother Russia [23+1=24] Give me land, lots of land, but most of all... give me your land!
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment [26]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest [19]
Zulu - Isibongo [23]
 
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