Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword - Expansion no2!

[TheNiceOne]

JB- this was something Ive been wanting since vanilla. I would love to see this implemented... Only problem is that I can/t really think of a suitable penalty. If free religion is passed and you refuse? A negative on relations? Or should it be united effort aginst you. Loss of foriegn trade routes? Loss of trade? War? Maybe this new expanded UN stuff will add options, but Im finding it hard to see the potential. Im not a game designer

I think the best solution would be a rep hit from all civs that follow U.N.'s regulation, and no change from others that dont'.

This would be simple and give you an interesting choise between following the regulations, or to worsen the relations with most other civs.

 

[ChrTh]

I think the best solution would be a rep hit from all civs that follow U.N.'s regulation, and no change from others that dont'.

This would be simple and give you an interesting choise between following the regulations, or to worsen the relations with most other civs.

Yeah, something like "-3 Disobeyed the will of the United Nations." (penalty would lessen with time, as always)

 

[Andy_Candy]

By that logic, if I jump from the Eiffel Tower, I would be remembered for being able to fly.


So how did he make Germany strong again, apart from profiting from economic policies set in motion by the social democrats before him and apart from implementing economic programs he had no way of paying for (without the war)?



Likewise.

Just a last little comment to that. He created the only german government after WW1, with balls hard enough to take Germany out of the Vesailles treaty. That is why he was so loved by the germans, and respected by other world nations.

The extremely negative image we have of him today is first and formost because of things happening after the english and french declaration of war on him, september 39.

Now, once more back to topics....

 

[The Almighty dF]

Indeed. Besides, a good bit of the civ leaders are killers themselves.
Just hope I never see Cromwell as a leader.

Just to finally end this:
Think about it, who wouldn't buy a game where you got a chance to nuke Hitler? I have fun nuking Stalin, myself.

also. Really. Why isn't there a BtS subforum yet? *and a Hitler one as was suggested, continuous arguing. We'll even bring in the History Channel hosts. ...Gunny playing Civ4, that'd rock.*

 

[Andy_Candy]

OK, back to topics. How do you guys think they have implemented a more advanced spacerace, with more strategic choices? Any ideas?

 

[Shadowhal]

Just a last little comment to that. He created the only german government after WW1, with balls hard enough to take Germany out of the Vesailles treaty. That is why he was so loved by the germans, and respected by other world nations.

The extremely negative image we have of him today is first and formost because of things happening after the english and french declaration of war on him, september 39.

Now, once more back to topics....

nazi antisemitism started well before ww2 AND hitler invaded austria and czechoslowakia also before that (don't forget that a referendum was to be held in austria which was forcefully prevented by the anschluss. that approval was high afterwards, was a different matter.)

it seems those discussions never end, sorry for that but I just couldn't let the "nazi crimes started with 1939" stand here for good.

 

[Andy_Candy]

nazi antisemitism started well before ww2 AND hitler invaded austria and czechoslowakia also before that (don't forget that a referendum was to be held in austria which was forcefully prevented by the anschluss. that approval was high afterwards, was a different matter.)

it seems those discussions never end, sorry for that but I just couldn't let the "nazi crimes started with 1939" stand here for good.

Yep, but that anti semittism didnt bother europeans so much before after Holocaust. So my point was, If Hitler had died before the invasion of Poland, he would have been remembered for the greater things he managed to do.

This is my last comment on the matter, It's of topic....

 

[kcbrett5]

I am almost certain that the future game art will be for a scenario and not an addition to the core game, at least i hope so. 2050 is far enough. Extended space race sounds good, not just the generic fallback victory option.

It could just be one of the new buildings-Biosphere. Some sort of prerequisite to space colonization.

 

[Shadowhal]

Yep, but that anti semittism didnt bother europeans so much before after Holocaust. So my point was, If Hitler had died before the invasion of Poland, he would have been remembered for the greater things he managed to do.

i disagree, but this has been discussed often enough, let's end it.

 

[pay-t]

Apostolic Palace does mean Vatican indeed which makes me wonder a bit on the overall religion system though.

In any case I'm disapointed by the numbers of new leaders which is only 6. Let's enumerate the civs that desperately deserve a second leader:

Greece, Persia, Arabia, Japan, Spain. In addition to that, the Romans (and Chinese) deserve a third leader too. Which already makes 6 (7), but we do know Abe Lincoln gets in, so which one (two) of the above do we kick out? It's sad. And on the other hand they include Sitting Bull . I won't say that they are not fun to play with, but I'd rather have three more leaders than one such civ like the Sioux or the Zulu... That's just my opinion, remember...

Now, the other civs:

Babylon, Netherlands, Dutch, Sioux (Americanindians) we do already know of . The last three suggests a "Colonization scenario", so they might've included additionally the Maya or/and the Iroquois. Otherwise it's quite unclear, but I do really hope for Poland, the Khmer and a Ancient civilization.

All the rest I do not want to comment on, we do not know enough for that...

mick

The Netherlands and Dutch are quite the same, I guess you ment Portugal

 

[Danielos]

Let´s hope the new expansion includes some new juicy naval units, proper naval promotions and some interesting future techs. Then I´m ready to clap my little hands and drool right into the box.

Good that Firaxis seems to have listened to us. They have included many things we have been asking for! Credits to Firaxis!

 

[the Intricacy]

OK, back to topics. How do you guys think they have implemented a more advanced spacerace, with more strategic choices? Any ideas?

Did you read my last post on page 14?

I am almost certain that the future game art will be for a scenario and not an addition to the core game, at least i hope so. 2050 is far enough.

Possible, but the "expanded space race" and "new units, buildings, and technologies to the epic game with a tremendous amount of effort focused on the late game." sound like they're part of the "epic" (non-scenario) game.

I think my favorite idea from that post i did earlier was the prospect of "shooting down" someone else's space initiative. It would require a certain tech equity, but was pisses me off is that there's very little way slow down someone else's space vic without all out obliteration. Ditto with cultural, I guess. I've seen many games where the victory announcement just pops up at 1850 and everyone else is like "WTF?"

All vic conditions, imo, should be hard, since, well, IRL it's 2007 and no one's even close to it. My interpretation of a victory condition is that it requires a certain "Earth Hegemony". And don't say the USA has achieved that already, since we all know that's hardly true.

 

[cairnsy44]

Does this expansion come with divorce papers?

Amen to that. When my wife saw me checking out the official release, her jaw dropped and said "Oh NO!!!! You have got to be joking!"

 

[the Intricacy]

I am also skeptical of the Advanced Starts feature... I would suspect that "buying components" is similar to the Barb scenario, but how does that work when all the land is usually taken by 1200AD? That certainly would decrease rewards for locking off land in earlier game and then saving it for later expansion.

Does this mean the incoming civ gets a say on WHERE they are going to be? One of the nice things about civ is that strategies are geographically specific, so, as an extreme example, if I wanted to join midgame with vikings and coastal buildings, I better not be landlocked in the jungle!

Also, in MP, would that mean that every1 would have to wait for a player to join AND buy, if they join midgame? Or does this only work in SP?

Perhaps they will add in the lobby, what year the game is on! That would be nice.

 

[willpax]

Yeah, something like "-3 Disobeyed the will of the United Nations." (penalty would lessen with time, as always)

Or, like emancipation, a negative modifier based on how many civs went along with the UN. In games with a weak UN, it isn't much of a penalty, but if you are the only one of 12 civs bucking the trend, then it's easy for all of them to get the hate on.

That would make the OCC much harder.

 

[ParkCungHee]

By that logic, if I jump from the Eiffel Tower, I would be remembered for being able to fly.

And by that logic, Hannibal and Napoleon shouldn't be in the game considering they, you know, lost.

 

[the Intricacy]

one more thing i want... better toggling back and forth between the diplomacy menu. If I want to change my econ or check out a city I might give, I wanna look at it mid-negotiations and figure out if that's best for my civ, rather than turn the AI's (or human's) demands without "consulting my advisers".

 

[Gyathaar]

I wanna look at it mid-negotiations and figure out if that's best for my civ, rather than turn the AI's (or human's) demands without "consulting my advisers".

You can do that already in civ4.. you can open all the advisor screens without closing the trade window... if you are playing with low screen resolution so you cant see the buttons to open advisors, then you can still access them with the function keys

 

[Winston]

hmm, you actually brought up an interesting point with enron. religions can't die, corporations can, so will that be an issue in BtS? also, for names I would just go for some combination of the material they are trading with and the city / nation they are created in, say "spanish motor production sa" or "new orleans petroleum inc." (granted this could bring up names of actual companies, but then they are also so generic that I doubt legal actions could effectively prevail).

I would definitely prefer if they have just markets and not corporations - as you wrote; corps can die and also markets normally have several corps so it makes sense to keep it as markets and civs compete for market share IMO. If it is just one corp per market and civs buy shares in that corp then they should definitely leave them generic or give players the option to rename them when they're founded.

Regarding extra techs that Firaxis is introducing I'm guessing its prob future techs by the looks of those screenshots and the press release and partcularly
the space race.
If they are planning to introduce techs for earlier eras then I'd like to see some food boosting techs such as refridgeration and other earlier preservative techniques and also things to represent the many many innovations that happened in farming in the 18th 19th and 20th centuries - this aspect of human history gets totally overlooked in Civ but it is a MAJOR reason why the Western world enjoys its current prosperity and high living standards. Also maybe if they boosted food possibilities this would create larger cities and make environmentalism a more attractive civic for players.

The 3 main things I've been wanting to see improved above all else is trade, espionage, and the role of naval units - it looks like Firaxis are addressing 2 out of 3 with this XP and I can only hope they are also doing things to expand the role of navies but even if they don't; I will still buy this XP and get alot of satisfaction from it

 

[KMadCandy]

You can do that already in civ4.. you can open all the advisor screens without closing the trade window... if you are playing with low screen resolution so you cant see the buttons to open advisors, then you can still access them with the function keys

actually i can't use the function keys at all during demands, and only found out that clicking the on-screeen buttons to see the advisor screens works during demands a week or so ago. i was so thrilled i made a post about it, and several people who play keyboard-commands mostly like i do replied that they didn't know either!

definitely worth spreading around the word that it's something you are supposed to able to do, so that people can find out what works on their system. i know several had assumed like i did that it was a game design decision - "you're being demanded something, you have no time to put the other leader on hold and go hold an advisor summit" *giggle*.

game mechanic change i'd like to see: war weariness calculated differently for "Always War" games. i'm too chicken to play them myself mind you. but i know some players like them and might like them more with that change, and it seems logical to me. i'm not in charge tho.