Climate change madness: First successful cocoa plantation on European soil - Tropical crops can now be grown in Southern Spain

[Birdjaguar]

With enough heat, sufficient light and space you can grow almost any tropical plant anywhere. What these guys seemed to have done is a proof of concept around the idea of efficient, scaled production of cocoa plants out of their normal range. Increases in the ambient outside temperatures are likely a factor in reducing the energy cost of doing this previously. This is only the beginning of moving crops north into new growing areas as current ones either dry out or get too hot. In ten years, they may well be able to remove the greenhouse covering completely.

 

[Zardnaar]

It's alarmist to say that it's not, considering that this is one data point amongst many when it comes to the potential impact of climate change. You have to be open to the argument, otherwise you're insisting on something without considering the evidence.

The evidence is simple. If they have a history going back hundreds of years, why has it taken to long to grow a successful cocoa crop?

It's not commercially viable even now.

No point trying it if you can't monetize it.

My father in law was a professional gardener. He can get all sorts of things out of a glasshouse that's technically not possible. Not possible means commercially viable.

Wife bought a lemon tree for example told her not to but got ignored. It died. Yet you can grow then in glasshouses in deep south.

 

[Gorbles]

No point trying it if you can't monetize it.

So why try it, if it isn't commercially-viable?

The OP reads like a tech test. It reads like there were multiple attempts. There's a reason it happened now, vs. earlier. The only answers are "the tech got better" or "the climate changed". And even those aren't mutually-exclusive. Based on the details in the article, the climate definitely seems to be a factor, because (as I've quoted twice) they maintained the temperature without heating.

 

[uppi]

They literally say how the outside temperature has been relevant, and how this factors into the uniqueness of their success in cultivating the crop. Quoting again from the OP for relevance:

You can absolutely say "we do not know", but educated guesses are possible.

There is a difference between making educated guesses and jumping to conclusions.

Cocoa trees have been grown in German greenhouses in the 19th century and there are plenty of botanical gardens in Europe where you can see cocoa trees . Likely with quite some effort and in single quantities and certainly not as a plantation. So yes, growing cocoa plants in Europe is possible even without climate change. Probably, climate change has made it a little easier. But cocoa trees are difficult to grow outside of their ecosystem - keeping the temperature high is likely one of the easier challenges.

 

[uppi]

So why try it, if it isn't commercially-viable?

For science

 

[amadeus]

The evidence is simple. If they have a history going back hundreds of years, why has it taken to long to grow a successful cocoa crop?

What did England have in 1880 that Ghana did not have?

Spoiler :

Ghana

 

[Gorbles]

There is a difference between making educated guesses and jumping to conclusions.

I agree. I don't see climate change being an arguable factor as jumping to conclusions though.

So yes, growing cocoa plants in Europe is possible even without climate change

I never claimed it wasn't, but that's not the extent of the achievement described in the OP.

For science

I know. That was a response to Zard.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Cocoa already been grown in greenhouse in England

From bean to bar: How to make chocolate | Kew

Our Kew horticulturalist Hannah Button makes chocolate at home from cacao beans growing at Kew Gardens.

www.kew.org

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

You need an actual college degree to make the future better.

Well this is utterly depressing and totally wrong. You can make effective chance today.

 

[gangleri2001]

Cocoa already been grown in greenhouse in England

From bean to bar: How to make chocolate | Kew

Our Kew horticulturalist Hannah Button makes chocolate at home from cacao beans growing at Kew Gardens.

www.kew.org

We are talking about at scale plantations with the potential of becoming economically feasible, not just a few plants grown for mostly scientific reasons in a very controlled environment by botanists with no intention to bring the experiment to the economic terrain.

 

[EnglishEdward]

We are talking about at scale plantations with the potential of becoming economically feasible, not just a few plants grown for mostly scientific reasons in a very controlled environment by botanists with no intention to bring the experiment to the economic terrain.

with the potential of becoming economically feasible

Ah, like US developments in nuclear fusion; potential is a very useful word for advocates.

Going back to the original article's quotation:

To pollinate the plants, the researchers “did it manually,

does not sound to me very much like at an "scale plantation"

Nevertheless Malaga is warmer than Kew so you should be able to do much more and more easily,

Well done.

But I don't see much happening on a large scale unless global warming gets much worse or genetic
engineering delivers a variety of cocoa tree that can survive at cooler but above frost temperatures.

 

[El_Machinae]

You need an actual college degree to make the future better. I'm far too old and broke to desire one now, and even if I got rich overnight I would see no material reason to then get one anyway at that point.

Meaning it's a natural catch 22.

This is a meme that needs to die. The spread in capacity between what you have and what the most powerless have is probably best measured in magnitudes using 'hundreds'.

 

[Kyriakos]

This is a meme that needs to die. The spread in capacity between what you have and what the most powerless have is probably best measured in magnitudes using 'hundreds'.

Not if you stick to the same society/country. Which is why there it only makes sense for very rich people to give to others. Then again, they shouldn't have had so much more in the first place, while those others should be given more by the state.

 

[Joij21]

This is a meme that needs to die. The spread in capacity between what you have and what the most powerless have is probably best measured in magnitudes using 'hundreds'.

With only $10k in savings and a $11k a year income is it really worth giving up one's self sufficiency and ability to pay split rent with roommates just to help those many hundredths of magnitudes below me?

Ask truly if such things are worth it when those hundredths below me number several billion, and I am nevertheless considered below the poverty line for a first world country. Why can't those far richer and better educated pull their weight? Why must I pay for these multitudes, when the true wealth and power to make a difference resides with those above me?

 

[Gorbles]

With only $10k in savings and a $11k a year income is it really worth giving up one's self sufficiency and ability to pay split rent with roommates just to help those many hundredths of magnitudes below me?

Ask truly if such things are worth it when those hundredths below me number several billion, and I am nevertheless considered below the poverty line for a first world country. Why can't those far richer and better educated pull their weight? Why must I pay for these multitudes, when the true wealth and power to make a difference resides with those above me?

Nothing about that relates to having a college degree.

Well I guess apart from having savings instead of tens of thousands of pounds of debt (adjust per currency rate of your choice from GBP and cost of higher education).

You said you need a college degree to enact change. You are wrong.

 

[Joij21]

Nothing about that relates to having a college degree.

Well I guess apart from having savings instead of tens of thousands of pounds of debt (adjust per currency rate of your choice from GBP and cost of higher education).

Then the rich and educated must truly be powerless if they are requesting my assistance to save the world!

 

[Gorbles]

Then the rich and educated must truly be powerless if they are requesting my assistance to save the world!

That's a whole other argument entirely. And still nothing to do with having a college degree

 

[Joij21]

That's a whole other argument entirely. And still nothing to do with having a college degree

Depends, how many of the worlds top ten richest people have college degrees? If the majority have them, one could therefore conclude an individual needs one if they seriously want to make a difference and have any remote semblance of power.

 

[Gorbles]

Depends, how many of the worlds top ten richest people have college degrees? If the majority have them, one could therefore conclude an individual needs one if they seriously want to make a difference and have any remote semblance of power.

Correlation isn't causation. The rich get education often because they can afford it. Their wealth is what affords them leverage, not the fact they got a bachelor's degree.

Heck, the whole "flunked college genius" is a STEM stereotype for a reason.

To try and get back to the topic, the researchers working on stuff like this will invariably have degrees. But they also are far less likely to be rich or otherwise powerful, as you've been talking about. I have a degree. I am not rich. I have a bucket load of debt (though after 15 years, relatively less of it). My college degree didn't open any doors for me (it wasn't a particularly good grade).

You need to equate the two less strongly than you are doing. And I'm not trying to say "get a degree". I'm saying that you can make change without one, even if all the people involved in growing cocoa plants in Malaga happen to have degrees themselves.

 

[Joij21]

Correlation isn't causation. The rich get education often because they can afford it. Their wealth is what affords them leverage, not the fact they got a bachelor's degree.

Heck, the whole "flunked college genius" is a STEM stereotype for a reason.

To try and get back to the topic, the researchers working on stuff like this will invariably have degrees. But they also are far less likely to be rich or otherwise powerful, as you've been talking about. I have a degree. I am not rich. I have a bucket load of debt (though after 15 years, relatively less of it). My college degree didn't open any doors for me (it wasn't a particularly good grade).

You need to equate the two less strongly than you are doing. And I'm not trying to say "get a degree". I'm saying that you can make change without one, even if all the people involved in growing cocoa plants in Malaga happen to have degrees themselves.

Yeah sorry but there's a reason why parents emphasize higher education for their children. They know that in this world in order to not be taken advantage of you need a certain level of power and credibility. A college degree grants one that baseline level of power and credibility so they can live a dignified life.

Otherwise what's the push?