Coastal city with no sea resource = dumb idea if you arent a Merchant?

[Guru-Meditation]

Hi,

over the course of my last few games i have noticed something particular when choosing city locations. It is that it it isnt really a good idea to settle a city on the coast if you can not get a sea resource into it's borders.

The only advantage of a city being coastal is that you can build a light house and harbor, IF IF you go for Merchant's Guild, and even then you need to wait to unlock the buildings, which can take quiet some time, especially if Merchant's Guild is your 3rd or even 4th guild.

On the contrast with building the city a bit further inland and even just getting 2 forests more into its BFC, which translates to immediate +1 Health, seems to be the better choice. It might evenbe that if a sea resource is coastal, you find a better city spot going just 1 tile inland, simply for more useful land, while keeping the resource in the city's Cross, and sending a fighing boat from another seaside city to get the "+20 %" triggered.



There should be some incentive to build a coastal city, instead of founding it with a 1-tile-gap to the sea. Some ideas i'd propose:

• A new geberal building like "Fishing Wharf" for +1 food on water tiles.
• Move the Harbor and Lighthouse into the Trade-tech-chain, and give the Merchant's Guild a "Commercial Port" and "Cargo Pier" in it's stead, which stacks with the general seaside buildings everyone can build.

P.S.
Also the tile yields of sea resources (except Whale) need a boost, imho. They arent good tiles by itself with their low yields.

 

[Psychodad]

Second

 

[Ombatur]

Hi,

over the course of my last few games i have noticed something particular when choosing city locations. It is that it it isnt really a good idea to settle a city on the coast if you can not get a sea resource into it's borders.

The only advantage of a city being coastal is that you can build a light house and harbor, IF IF you go for Merchant's Guild, and even then you need to wait to unlock the buildings, which can take quiet some time, especially if Merchant's Guild is your 3rd or even 4th guild.

On the contrast with building the city a bit further inland and even just getting 2 forests more into its BFC, which translates to immediate +1 Health, seems to be the better choice. It might evenbe that if a sea resource is coastal, you find a better city spot going just 1 tile inland, simply for more useful land, while keeping the resource in the city's Cross, and sending a fighing boat from another seaside city to get the "+20 %" triggered.



There should be some incentive to build a coastal city, instead of founding it with a 1-tile-gap to the sea. Some ideas i'd propose:

• A new geberal building like "Fishing Wharf" for +1 food on water tiles.
• Move the Harbor and Lighthouse into the Trade-tech-chain, and give the Merchant's Guild a "Commercial Port" and "Cargo Pier" in it's stead, which stacks with the general seaside buildings everyone can build.

P.S.
Also the tile yields of sea resources (except Whale) need a boost, imho. They arent good tiles by itself with their low yields.

I generally agree with your points. But there are some things that can make coastal cities not too bad. You can have kelp growing in the water and some water magic boosts water tiles as well, if I remember correctly. Also water tiles don't become corrupted when the armageddon counter rises. And sometimes you just want cities with a lot of food and coastal cities generally provide that. One also hast to consider, that Lanun doesn't become too powerful, when you boost water tiles too much.
But I admit, that this is not very exciting.

My suggestion would be:
- Make harbour buildable with some early tech requirement instead of merchant guild.
- Add some sort of "super harbour", which is a national wonder, that can only be build if you have at least 3 (number is up to debate) harbours in your empire and that gives 1 water mana.
This way you're incentivized to build at least 3 coastal cities and get a bonus, that can potentially boost your water tiles.

 

[esvath]

I am interested in hearing further thoughts on this.

 

[Vital Brasil]

Hi,

over the course of my last few games i have noticed something particular when choosing city locations. It is that it it isnt really a good idea to settle a city on the coast if you can not get a sea resource into it's borders.

The only advantage of a city being coastal is that you can build a light house and harbor, IF IF you go for Merchant's Guild, and even then you need to wait to unlock the buildings, which can take quiet some time, especially if Merchant's Guild is your 3rd or even 4th guild.

On the contrast with building the city a bit further inland and even just getting 2 forests more into its BFC, which translates to immediate +1 Health, seems to be the better choice. It might evenbe that if a sea resource is coastal, you find a better city spot going just 1 tile inland, simply for more useful land, while keeping the resource in the city's Cross, and sending a fighing boat from another seaside city to get the "+20 %" triggered.



There should be some incentive to build a coastal city, instead of founding it with a 1-tile-gap to the sea. Some ideas i'd propose:

• A new geberal building like "Fishing Wharf" for +1 food on water tiles.
• Move the Harbor and Lighthouse into the Trade-tech-chain, and give the Merchant's Guild a "Commercial Port" and "Cargo Pier" in it's stead, which stacks with the general seaside buildings everyone can build.

P.S.
Also the tile yields of sea resources (except Whale) need a boost, imho. They arent good tiles by itself with their low yields.

I agree with most of this, but i am not sure about this "fishing wharf building". I think it may be a bit OP.

Maybe the +1 food bonus should be restrict only to coastal tiles ?

But, to be honest, i think that the simple change of making harbors unlocked by a normal tech would be enough fix this.