Copy protection in Civilization V

[eireksten]

Product-Key is fine.
DVD in drive is annoying, but not a real problem. I'll just get the no-DVD hack to play my purchased game without DVD.
On-line registration I prefer to do without since they generally want all sorts of marking info from you along the way.
Always-online is a deal breaker. I'm a single-player anyway.

And yes, I'd consider Steam as a part of DRM and nothing more. They may be unobtrusive, but they don't add anything to the game for me. I have no use for a Steam Account and the associated marketing trap.

You don't have to be always online with Steam. In fact, you can be offline all the time after registration if you want. Why do people keep hinting at that?

About Steam adding to your game. Assuming they didn't use Steamworks (or another similar service), they'd have to develop all these things themselves. Instead they now get to focus on other aspects of the game, like AI, code optimizations, graphics, balancing, and so on. If that's not added value to your game, I don't know what is.

 

[Balderstrom]

You don't have to be always online with Steam. In fact, you can be offline all the time after registration if you want. Why do people keep hinting at that?

About Steam adding to your game. Assuming they didn't use Steamworks (or another similar service), they'd have to develop all these things themselves. Instead they now get to focus on other aspects of the game, like AI, code optimizations, graphics, balancing, and so on. If that's not added value to your game, I don't know what is.

Steam used to attempt to connect to any Internet Network if there was one visible, even if you had specifically set it into Offline Mode. That particular bug wasn't fixed until one of the more recent patches to the software. Considering that that was Steam's behaviour for far longer than its current fairly well behaved self -- it's not surprising that people believe that Steam is still crap that doesn't do what its told.

 

[eireksten]

OK, I understand. I'm lucky enough to be one of Steam's relatively fresh users (last 6 months or so).

Still, I'd think it would be better to ask whether this has been improved than to just assume that it still is faulty.

 

[Balderstrom]

My concern of the copy protection is minimal. Publishers believe something is needed. And this particular option wont be so easily crackable -- which is good for the publisher, devs and if it's as unobtrusive as it seems -- good for the end user: no digging around for a CD/DVD.

Yet this also begs the question: Can we install mods without getting them thru the "Firaxis/Steam controlled platform..."

 

[HamTard]

Steam used to attempt to connect to any Internet Network if there was one visible, even if you had specifically set it into Offline Mode. That particular bug wasn't fixed until one of the more recent patches to the software. Considering that that was Steam's behaviour for far longer than its current fairly well behaved self -- it's not surprising that people believe that Steam is still crap that doesn't do what its told.

Steam works great now, and they patch it very regularly with bug fixes, optimizations, and new features.

Steamworks is free. If 2K went with SecuROM or something else, they would have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for it, taking away money from developing and marketing the game. Steamworks also gives you unlimited installs on unlimited PCs, as long as you only play from 1 at a time, while many versions of SecuROM limit you to 5 activations.

 

[deanej]

Or they could have stuck with a simple disc check. Or better yet, no DRM at all (like civ4 complete). Spore proved that DRM does not work. Even steam's DRM only works for multiplayer, a small but vocal minority.

 

[HamTard]

Or they could have stuck with a simple disc check. Or better yet, no DRM at all (like civ4 complete). Spore proved that DRM does not work. Even steam's DRM only works for multiplayer, a small but vocal minority.

Publishers want DRM. Everyone knows it doesn't work, but shareholders are probably demanding it. They opted to go with the only FREE DRM, to save money, and also get free features out of it like syncing save files across your computers, and multiplayer matchmaking.

Spore didn't prove anything other than that a lot of people will pretend that DRM is their problem to justify pirating a game they were going to pirate anyways.

 

[Jeckel]

To bad the whole "DRM is to fight Pirates" thing is a load of crap. Pirates don't care about DRM. You know what a pirate's response is to a game that has an always-online requirement? There answer is a simple, "O, guess I'll have to wait an extra week or two to play it."

The only people that are effected by DRM are legitimate paying customers, period. Always-online requirements, limited number of installs, etc are used so the company can control how long you can play the game before it no longer works and you have to buy a new game. I pulled out my good old C&C disc the other day, installed it, and was playing in about ten minutes. Good luck playing C&C 4 in 2, 5, or10 years without using some kind of hack or crack.

As for the "free" vs paid DRM, there is one thing that is even easier and cheaper then either of those options. To not include any code that isn't need to make the game playable.

DRM of all types is crap and sooner the paying customers realize that pirates are a smoke screen and that the legitimate customers are the targets of these practices, the sooner they will be abandoned.

 

[Savoir10]

I've always considered DRM more about stopping the second hand games market, than in stopping pirates. The latter has never been sucessful, as far as I know.

 

[Balderstrom]

I've always considered DRM more about stopping the second hand games market, than in stopping pirates. The latter has never been sucessful, as far as I know.

I don't see how thats true. Only the most recent copy protection schemes have relied on connecting to a server. Everything in the past was:

• Look up a word in the manual.
  • A Decoder Wheel.
• A dongle.
• CD Key
  • Possible server connect to verify Key (with multiplayer).
• Disk Check.
  • Secu-Rom - more invasive disk check (harder to duplicate).

None of that is remotely related to inhibiting the second-hand games market.

 

[Jeckel]

I don't see how thats true. Only the most recent copy protection schemes have relied on connecting to a server. Everything in the past was:

• Look up a word in the manual.
  • A Decoder Wheel.
• A dongle.
• CD Key
  • Possible server connect to verify Key (with multiplayer).
• Disk Check.
  • Secu-Rom - more invasive disk check (harder to duplicate).

None of that is remotely related to inhibiting the second-hand games market.

Unless you lost the manual, then no reselling a game where you need to look up a word. And any game that requires a connection to some server is only good as long as the publisher keeps that server up and running, after that your SOL.

Serial keys and cd checks are fine cause they aren't that annoying, but the fact is they are pointless cause any pirate can get past them like walking through a door, so what is the point.

 

[HamTard]

Unless you lost the manual, then no reselling a game where you need to look up a word. And any game that requires a connection to some server is only good as long as the publisher keeps that server up and running, after that your SOL.

Serial keys and cd checks are fine cause they aren't that annoying, but the fact is they are pointless cause any pirate can get past them like walking through a door, so what is the point.

I don't believe there are ANY games that have been permanently disabled due to loss of activation servers (other than MMORPGs, that are played purely through an online server).

I believe there was ONE game with single player a few years back where they had to shut down the servers, but they released a patch before it happened to take away the need to activate online so it didn't disable the game.

For now, the fear of permanently disabling a single player game due to loss of activation servers has no basis, since it hasn't happened yet.

 

[deanej]

Always-online requirements are also fairly recent. I expect we'll see a few in the next few years at least.

 

[Savoir10]

I don't see how thats true. Only the most recent copy protection schemes have relied on connecting to a server. Everything in the past was:

• Look up a word in the manual.
  • A Decoder Wheel.
• A dongle.
• CD Key
  • Possible server connect to verify Key (with multiplayer).
• Disk Check.
  • Secu-Rom - more invasive disk check (harder to duplicate).

None of that is remotely related to inhibiting the second-hand games market.

Sorry I meant the online activation DRM. Should have been more explicit.

So Tell me how it stops piracy? It may slow them down a little, but it has never stopped one game from being hacked.

However, that being said, I think Steam is the best of the online activation DRM available.

 

[Avs]

Avs, you are not exactly as helpful as you think you are.

I am pretty sure that I never once mentioned a continuous internet connection, mostly because I don't think that Steam requires one, but thank you for the information, maybe someone else will find that helpful. I am actually more concerned about the nature of Steam's offline mode as will be utilized by 2K Games. Naturally, I do not expect you to be able to answer that. It is rhetorical in the context of this forum.

Your answer about patching is interesting. I have no interest in Steam and no desire to interact with Steam on a personal level. To me, Steam is not a delivery method for software and patches and it is not a means to connect me to a community. To me, it is nothing but a DRM scheme that I must deal with in order to use my legitimately purchased software. Why would I ever want to go and download it, and why must I run off and research user settings for a tool that I have no interest in? My sole interest in Steam is whether it will get out of my way and stay there. This is also something that I do not expect an answer to here. The question, such as it is, is rhetorical.

This is key. Since steam is a blocker for you, this will never work out. Steam cannot undo what it is now without losing the millions that use it already. Therefore, I expect this to be the last time you come back, as you've already decided. However, if your idea of participating is convincing others to NOT get Civ5 because of steam, then we're back to square one.

This is what 2K has to say about offline mode. You should take a look at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=363634&page=14 if it helps.

Elizabeth 2k

You'll be able to play on a laptop without internet - you won't be able to access the online components (of course) but we know that the game is very portable and people want it everywhere. I, too, am one of those folks who plays Civ on airplanes (and vacations.)

 

[Balderstrom]

So Tell me how it stops piracy? It may slow them down a little, but it has never stopped one game from being hacked.

AFAIK from various gaming industry blogs/articles and discussions on slashdot, the primary goal with Copy Protection has been to inhibit outright illegal distribution of the game for 2-4+ weeks. Most of the sales will occur within the first month -- even more so within the first 2 weeks.

Whether or not copy protection schemes increase sales hasn't exactly been proven one way or another. The only thing that would work: if all games were uncrackable then there would be no illegal scene. If there was no illegal scene, then it's highly likely sales would go up for some games: The people that got free-everything would need to buy something. Although, considering we are talking about leechers, they'd prolly participate more-so in the second-hand games market -- which again wouldn't be beneficial to the publisher or add to the total number of games sold.

Personally, I believe most people that have at least some disposable income do buy their entertainment and software. When I was a youngin' almost all my software was from friends (of friends): the internet is just an extrapolation of how it was in the past.

These days, anything I use on any regular basis I pay for or donate to. Yet I still get the odd piece of software from other sources when said software is far outside my normal budget. If the software is useful enough to warrant the cost, I'll buy it. Usually it's not, and has far too many usability issues: i.e. I wouldn't even continue using it for free. Uninstall and try and find something more suited to the task and of better economical value.

An example of this would be Adobe's Acrobat Pro, there are numerous competitors that have better software and at a more reasonable price: Win Win.

 

[cardgame]

Whether or not copy protection schemes increase sales hasn't exactly been proven one way or another.

And it never will be, because the free market is not a laboratory

However there is some evidence; Spore had some of the most DRM ever when it came out, IIRC, and it had the most illegal DLs ever, even though by all accounts it was a mediocre game at best.

 

[grommit5]

I will not buy any game that requires me to be online to play or forces me to install third party software to play. Believe it or not, but even with all the supposed broadband hype there are still many people with slow dialup connection and/or no internet at all.
I have purchased every version of CIV and expansion pack since the original.

DRM or "internet required" will definately put this game on my DO NOT BUY list and I will recomend the same to anyone I know.

 

[arstal]

The best thing to do if you're protesting to put that Civ V money towards EWOM- Tasunke's going to work on that game for modding also, and while you'll need Impulse to install/patch- that's it. You'd also be supporting Steam's biggest competitor, which would increase the odds of DRM-free Civ VI. I'm willing to write of Civ V for a better Civ VI if needed.

You never run to run it otherwise.

 

[Savoir10]

I will not buy any game that requires me to be online to play or forces me to install third party software to play. Believe it or not, but even with all the supposed broadband hype there are still many people with slow dialup connection and/or no internet at all.
I have purchased every version of CIV and expansion pack since the original.

DRM or "internet required" will definately put this game on my DO NOT BUY list and I will recomend the same to anyone I know.

Well with Steam you do not have to be online to play single player. True it's a 3rd party, but very unobtrusive when compared to other DRM such as Securom.

Sadly this is the way of the future. Eventually all games will require this type of online activation. Which will mean no new games ever, if you are unable to adapt to the changes in technology.