Cultural Heritage

[Il Principe]

would it be possible to have both Civ-traits and Leader traits? So say you get a very warmonging civ, but a scientific leader? Or concentrate both in the same direction of course. This would give the player more room to customize.

 

[Thunderbrd]

would it be possible to have both Civ-traits and Leader traits? So say you get a very warmonging civ, but a scientific leader? Or concentrate both in the same direction of course. This would give the player more room to customize.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say here...

 

[Faustmouse]

would it be possible to have both Civ-traits and Leader traits? So say you get a very warmonging civ, but a scientific leader? Or concentrate both in the same direction of course. This would give the player more room to customize.

Micael's and TW's plan was to make this impossible due to the fact they wanted to get rid of leader traits.

I want to keep leader traits and make the civ traits independent from leader traits. So, if you are Montezuma and start on a large, cold island with no other civ on it, you would develope most likely to a peacefull, scientific seafaring nation with a big love to culture and art. ... If you want to! It would be tougher, but you should be able to "preapare" for future wars if you focus on building military units, buildings and ships.

If you start as Ghandi but are surrounded by warmongers and have to fight for your life, you will most likely develope to a strong military nation.

That's what I like the most: It's more likely to develope your culture in a way that is influenced by your enviroment, but you don't HAVE to.

 

[Faustmouse]

Ok, I did the Change for the Builder of Rhodos.
Now I post my Classical Era Traits.
Please come up with your own ideas as well, since we want to get at least 15 Missions for this era, too.
Themes that Micael told me are: Exploration, Rapid Expansion, Heroes, Wars, Spreading Religion...

Here is what I have so far:

1. No Name

-Build X Siege-Workshops
-Build X Siegeweapons
-Total of X promotions on siegeweapons
-win X battles with siegeweapons

[<100% Completion Reward]
50% fast construction of [pre gunpowder?] siegeweapons, free siege-Workshop in every city


[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait: All [pre gunpoweder?] siegeweapons are promoted with colleteral I
Picks Trait: All [pre gunpoweder?] siegeweapons are promoted with colleteral III

[Negative Effect]




2. No Name

-Build X Medic
-Build Hypocratic Oath
-Build X Acupuncteur
-Build X Hospitales (Foundig OR Plague)
-Total of X Medic Promotions

[<100% Completion Reward]
- X in every city, free medic I promotion for every Medic-Unit


[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait: Additional -Y in every city
Picks Trait: Additional -Z in every city

[Negative Effect]
-X from Hostitals, Doctors Office, etc...

[Note: if you want it more era related you can add the -unhealthiness to the era specific „healthyness buildings“]




3. No Name

- build X stables
- build X knight stables
- have X horse ressources
- have national horse breeder
- have X herd-Horse
- have X Horsefarms

[<100% Completion Reward]
free windhorse and Withdrawn I promotion for every horse-unit, trains horse-units 30% faster


[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait: Recive 5 Subdued Horses
Picks Trait: Free Herd-Horse and Horsefarm in every city

[Negative Effect]




4. Early Merchant

- Make X Trademissions
- Build X Trading Posts
- Gain X gold per turn from Exports
- Make X Import-/Export-Deals
- Research Spice- and Drugtrade

[<100% Completion Reward]
+2 :Traderoute: per city


[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait: Recive trade caravan
Picks Trait: Recive great merchant

[Negative Effect]
+10 Crime in every city



5. River Sailing

- X Rivertiles in Boarders
- (X Irrigation Canals)
- X Riverports
- X River Autorothy

[<100% Completion Reward]
+2 :Traderoute: for Cities next to Rivers


[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait: Units have double Movement near Rivers
Picks Trait: Units have double Movement near Rivers, Rivertiles +2 :Commerce:

[Negative Effect]




6. No Name

- Build X Music Schools
- X Turns 100% Culture
- X Turns Build Culture
- Total of X Instrument Ressources
- X Bard Promotions

[<100% Completion Reward]
+ 10 stability in every city per turn

[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait +3 :Culture: from Artists?
Pick Trait 1 Free Artist in every city


[Negative Effect]
-10% for military units in every city




7. Commercial Shipmen

- Build X Ship Merchants
- Build X Ports
- Have X Costal Cites
- Total of X in coastal cities

[<100% Completion Reward]
Merchat Ship trains 50% faster, +2 free Merchants from Port-Building-Chain, +100% from trademissions.


[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait: +1 :Traderoute: from Port-Building-Chain
Picks Trait: +3 :Traderoute: from Port-Building-Chain, +25% :Gold: from :Traderoute:

[Negative Effect]
+10 Crime from Port-Building-Chain



8. Early Explorer


- Build X Explorers
- Discover X new tiles
- Meet X new Civs
- ?

[<100% Completion Reward]
Explorers are promoted with sentry I


[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait: Explorers starts with speed (or morale)
Picks Trait: Revals every tile on your continent

[Negative Effect]




9. Rapid Expansion

- Found X new Cities
- Get control on X new tiles
- Connect X new ressources
- build X new Workers

[<100% Completion Reward]
Cities start with X culture (whatever is necessary to reach the Fat cross)


[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait: Cities get +1 Population boost
Picks Trait: Cities get +1 Popilation boost, new cities start with 2 Population.

[Negative Effect]




Ok, that's what I have so far, your turn now
What I had as Keynotes on my file was:
Monarchy, Ironworks, Cultures, tempels and monestaries.
Right now, I am too tired to think of something new...

 

[shal5]

I think leader traits should be nerfed, so that your civilasation is formed by your actions, but I think the leaders should have a personality beforehand, because everybody have a personality, right?

 

[Thunderbrd]

There is no reason, imo, to take OUT leader traits to allow for this system as well.

BTW, I've done some work in the SDK that will incidentally help with this project a great deal. Python will, on my next update, have access to a number of new function operations but the most important of these would be setHasTrait which will work to set a trait to on or off on a Player like setting a promotion on a unit.

I'm wondering, without having read every word on this thread, what is the intended method for establishing these missions exactly? How is it supposed to work in game?

 

[Faustmouse]

Those are great news TB THX a lot!
You should have a look at the first post. I like the idea of choosing between your 5 most successfull tasks and a special bonus if you have one completed 100%.

Still, more feedback to the missions is really welcome.
I could post my medival ideas this weekend, but those aren't worked out very well. However, I don't think I will get to work on those in the next time. Maybe we should just try to balance and complete the first few era missions and implent them as a demo?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

(Sorry this may be a bit confused - I keep passing out - and no I am not on any medication at all not even Christmas Cheer) As far as I can see they will be a whole new set of XML files, or maybe just one. Each mission would be defined by era etc. In game when you start an era the missions for that era would be set up so as to record how you do against each mission. Then at the end of the era what you achieved is compared to the missions and the "traits" listed for you to choose from.

This makes the missions similar to quests but
- everyone can achieve/succeed at a mission
- partial success also counts
- just because one player ends an era does not stop the missions for the others.

 

[Thunderbrd]

So all the quests (I'll use this term lightly and not to be confused with regular quests) for an era are automatically assigned to all players. Players gain rankings on these quests and at the end of the era may select from a civilization trait among a list that corresponds to list of quests they've ranked successfully on?

Would it be against the concept to make it automatically assign trait corresponding to the highest ranked quest victory? Would we want a negative Civ trait to come from the lowest ranked failure (avoidable if there are NO failures?) Perhaps a 'Grey' trait that stems from the one that falls directly in the middle of all of your rankings on these quests? (That has both good and bad effects?)

That last is a bit more random but I'm throwing out some thoughts here.

Programming wise, the Civilization Trait Quests could have its own defining XML page and the tags could be there to structure both the quest and corresponding BEST success Trait awarded and corresponding WORST failure Trait awarded. Then the traits would be setup in the traitsinfos xml and I'd give a tag that indicates the trait is a Civilization Trait (that would express on the trait help popups to aid players in understanding where the trait is coming from.)

I could also compile the Quest values in the dll and at the point a new era is reached for the PLAYER, it calculates the best victory and worst failure (and allows for none in both fields if there are either no fails or victories (there should be a range of neither failure nor success as well)) and then auto assigns (with a message sent to the player) the appropriate trait(s). If there is a tie, it could random off between the tied values.

In such a scenario, each mission should popup with a description of what tasks and possible results you have ahead of you during the next era when you advance an era. That (those) popup(s) would probably have to come primarily from python I think. And there should be a tab next to where normal quests are being expressed that allows a player to reference that current quest info and see progress towards them at any time during the game. Again, those matters are python issues I think.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The assumption that every one ends the era at the same time so you can rank players is not valid. Which is why most of these quests are about how well you did in them not how well you did compared to others. After all it is possible for one nation to be in the Classic era while another is just finishing the Prehistoric.

As to screens and such there are examples of them being done from the dll - event screens, city build next screen.

Edit how it is intended to work is very well described in the first post.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'll go back and read the first post again then.

But to be clear, I meant ranking the quests in relation to the other quests rather than to other players. I can see, though, how that would be tough since trying to make them all roughly equitable in their ranking structure would be a nightmare.

 

[Micael]

Thunderbird, if you read the first post we came up with a way around the issues when trying to rank them against each-other.

Basically it comes down to a bunch of relative completion points, and it is this which is compared in rank, and this which is checked for the 100% bonus.

Faustmouse, those look good . However, for the balancing to be fair we have tried to limit the criteria to only 4 or 5 different things. I suggest changing number 3 to "have X horse resources OR have X herd-Horse". Plus, can Knight Stables be built in the Classical?

Also, in number 1 you should probably change the picks 100% reward to collateral I and collateral II, not Collateral III.

Name-wise, how does "Horse Master" sound for #3? Also, #1 could be "Siege Masters".

- Micael

 

[Faustmouse]

@Micael: Noted your suggestions and changed them.

Here are some ideas for the medival era. I haven't changed the google Doc yet because I haven't figured out how But I noted all my ideas and it should be fairly easy to update the doc without searching.


Medival Missions

Vasalls

- Have X Vasalls
- Build the Vasall-Wonder
- Have Vasallage 90% of the time

[<100% Completion Reward]
Get the native culture of your vasalls


[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait +3 Diplo bonus from vasalls
Pick Trait +3 Diplo bonus from Vasalls


[Negative Effect]




Relenthless Conqueror

- Conquer X Cities
- Kill X Units
- Get X Great Generals
- [Destroy X Civilizations]

[<100% Completion Reward]
Free City Rider I Promotion for every Swordman (and Heavy Swordman) Unit

[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait +10% Bonus for attacking Cities during Renaissance
Pick Trait +30% Bonus for attacking Cities during Renaissance


[Negative Effect]
-10% City Defense, Cities revolt 10% longer [during renaissance]



No Name

- Burn X Cities
- Kill X Units
- Pillage X Improvements
- Pillage total of X gold

[<100% Completion Reward]
Free Pillage Gold Promotion on every Unit, Units get 10% when attacking [during renaissance]

[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait +25% great general points outside cultural borders [during renaissance]

Pick Trait +75% great general points outside cultural borders [during renaissance]

[Negative Effect]
Diplomalus with other civs, units -10% on defending [during renaissance]


Age of the Knights

- Build X Knights
- Build X Castles
- Have X Heraldy Promotions
- Have the same state-religion for 90% of the time

[<100% Completion Reward]
All Mounted Units free Promotion Heraldic

[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait All Mounted, Archer and Melee Units +2 XP
Pick Trait All Mounted, Archer and Melee Units free Morale, Combat I Promotion


[Negative Effect]




Safety first!


- Build X Castles
- Build X Walls
- X Promotion: City Garison
- 2 Longbowman in every City

[<100% Completion Reward]
Cities +50 % Defense

[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait: Hidden Nationality Units can't enter your cities [during renaissance]
Picks Trait: Hidden Nationality can't Units can't enter your boarders [during renaissance]

[Negative Effect]
- 1 Traderoute per City



Greed is good

- Build X Banks
- X Income per turn
- total of X gold in Treasury
- X turns 100% Tax (0% Breakers, etc)
- Produce X turns (in total) Wealth

[<100% Completion Reward]
+20% gold in every city

[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait: +1 Commerce from Villages and Towns
Picks Trait: +3 Commerce from Villages and Towns

[Negative Effect]
+2 Unhappy in every city




Burn the unbelievers

- Destroy X Cities without your State Religion (Holy Cities count as 5)
- Spread your State Religion to X foreign cities
- Have Statereligion in all of your cities
- have no other religions in your cities for 50% of the time (or more than X turns)
- Have the same statereligion for 90% of the time

[<100% Completion Reward] + 3 Gold from every State-Religion-Building, free state-religion specific promotion from tempels


[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait: recive 1 high Promoted Crusader
Picks Trait: recive 10 high Promoted Crusaders

[Negative Effect]
- Diplomalus with all leaders with different religion






Alchemist

- Build X Alchemist Labs
- Have X gold-ressources
- Have X Scientist-Specialists in your cities


[<100% Completion Reward] +30% Beakers in your cities.


[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait Mine +1 Commerce
Pick Trait Mine +4 Commerce; [-1 Prod]




Master Smith

- Build X Forges
- Have X Iron Ressources
- Have X Cannon-Forges
- Have X Amourer


[<100% Completion Reward] +10% Production in every city


[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait Mine AND Shaftmine + 1 Prod
Pick Trait Mine AND Shaftmine +3 Prod

[Negative Effect]
+20 Air Pollution in every city, +5 Water Pollution from Mine/Shaft Mine







What do you think?

 

[Hydromancerx]

No Name

- Burn X Cities
- Kill X Units
- Pillage X Improvements
- Pillage total of X gold

[<100% Completion Reward]
Free Pillage Gold Promotion on every Unit, Units get 10% when attacking [during renaissance]

[100% Completion Bonus]
Does not Pick Trait +25% great general points outside cultural borders [during renaissance]

Pick Trait +75% great general points outside cultural borders [during renaissance]

[Negative Effect]
Diplomalus with other civs, units -10% on defending [during renaissance]

This should be called "Trogdor the Burninator"!

 

[Faustmouse]

This should be called "Trogdor the Burninator"!

It was more linked to the Mongols and other "Barbarians" but ok, I changed it in my doc

 

[Thunderbrd]

I haven't changed the google Doc yet because I haven't figured out how

Usually its just go in and make the changes and it will save them as soon as the changes are made.

So far I'm liking these developments. In a version or two I can probably get the necessary coding sorted out for you guys on this. You've got some time still to work out the details of the quests and all then.

 

[Sgtslick]

The quests should be listed in the civilopedia so players are aware of these quests and the benefits. Then they can employ strategies to receive the said benefits.

 

[Faustmouse]

That is nice to hear TB

The quests should be listed in the civilopedia so players are aware of these quests and the benefits. Then they can employ strategies to receive the said benefits.

Good idea! And since they are already listed in this google doc it shouldn't be that hard to copy&paste them in the pedia (I hope so).

EDIT: Ok, I put my ideas till the medival missions in the google doc:
https://docs.google.com/document/pub...27NF5UBKu77Ow8

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

How can anyone have a particular civic 80% of the time when that civic is not available until after the Classic Era?

 

[Faustmouse]

Maybe that has been changed and we overlooked it. If so, it would be obviously impossible (except a reward from a previous mission would be to unlock a civic, which is a nice idea I think).

What civic are you talking about?