cultural victory; some questions

[wannabewarlord]

Hi there,

I intend to try a cultural victory on noble before I move up to the next difficulty level. I read up on some strategies and pointers and thought of a rough plan on how I go on about this game.

However, I do have some questions that I'd rather have answered than find out by trial and error since the time I have to play Civ IV any given week (8 - 10 hours max) is precious.

Noble difficulty, normal speed, standard size fractal map.

I will choose a Philosophical/Financial leader due to the Great Person bonus and the solid commerce which will allow me to keep my Culture/Research sliders up. From what I read this is a solid choice. Are there any traits that make a cultural win specifically easier/harder to achieve?

General question about Floodplains 3F, 1C : Do I farm them for 4F so I can support 2 full citizens or do I cottage them so I can work on the cottage all the time AND support 1.5 citizens. What is your guys' reasoning to do what you do with Floodplains?

I will try to found an early religion which I can spread to my closest neighbours (and hopefully beyond) to keep them happy and tame if we share the same faith. I assume this is worthwile...

As for upcoming Great Artists; Settle or "culture bomb" them? How does the mechanic work? A settled great artist gives 4 culture (6 with Sistine Chapel), correct? So mathematically to outweigh a culture bomb (4k culture), I'd have to run one Great Artist 1000 turns, or two for 500 turns, etc. This does not make much sense to me. Is this really the math or am I missing something?

Thanks for clearing that up.

cheers
-wannabewarlord

 

[oranges]

Settled great artist gives significantly more culture, 14 I think. 4 is for artist specialists. Early GA is definitely better settled as he will not only produce more culture, but bring you other bonuses as well.

Having as many religions as possible (you don't necessarily have to found all of them) is a great boon both for cathedrals and temples/monasteries, which benefit from the Sistine Chapel.

 

[omnimutant]

It's usually pretty hard to actually land Buddhism and Hinduism, but I find after that it's pretty easy to snag every thing else. So maybe you can focus on securing you Cities in the early stages and chase religions later, since your likely to land at least 4 of them with little effort.

 

[Bast]

Well well I just won my first cultural victory on Prince level using Victoria (Financial, Imperialistic).

A most important wonder is THE SISTINE CHAPEL. Build it and build your state religion's buildings and add artists.

The key is the culture slider. For the last half of the game I had my culture slider up at 90%. Make sure you found a lot of cities on rivers and use Universal Suffrage, Free Speech and Emancipation.

In the end, I got 5 Great artists which I used to settle and culture bomb. I got a 1950 victory. Late but this was my first culture win on this level.

BTW, I found NO religions. In fact, there were two big religious groups in Christianity and Confucianism. I had both religions present in my would-be legendary cities and I switched state religions as they demanded. Whenever I go for culture victories in the past - usually as Pericles, I ended up with A LOT of wonders and A LOT of GPs but I usually ended up being invaded. No more with Victoria.

I actually only built 6 wonders.

 

[Bast]

As for upcoming Great Artists; Settle or "culture bomb" them? How does the mechanic work? A settled great artist gives 4 culture (6 with Sistine Chapel), correct? So mathematically to outweigh a culture bomb (4k culture), I'd have to run one Great Artist 1000 turns, or two for 500 turns, etc. This does not make much sense to me. Is this really the math or am I missing something?

The first few artists I would settle. Once you're close to victory culture bomb. But it depends. You have to look at the math in each city. What they're producing, what they hope to be producing etc..

 

[wannabewarlord]

thanks for those initial answers. guess I confused the culture values there with artist specialists.

I'll probably stick with my financial/philosophical leader although I believe others can do just as well (i.e. Victoria).

cheers
-wannabewarlord

 

[Supr49er]

wannabewarlord

Don't underestimate the power of playing a CRE(ative) leader like Pericles (with PHI(losophical)), Willem van Oranje (with FIN(ancial)), or Zara Yaqob (with ORG(anized)).

CRE leaders get:
+2 in all cities
Double Production Speed for: Library; Theater; Colosseum.

 

[Jimmyballz]

Noble difficulty, normal speed, standard size fractal map.

I commonly play the same as you, and have had some success with cultural victory.

Save the culturebombs for the late game, to keep your "3rd" cultural city afloat with the 2 above it. I usually build 2 of the late game cultural wonders in the 3rd cultural city (rock n roll, hollywood, broadway) I also like to save late game great engineers if possible, to immediatley finish the production of these wonders.

Settle GA's early to create that perpetual gain. Good luck!!

-jb

 

[c4mrk]

I really like Elizabeth for her traits and the UB is ok given your ultimate goal. I agree with everyone that it's best to settle the first couple artists and then bomb out the end. Some quick notes I've found:

- Monuments are great! Build them early since they'll increase output earlier.
- Stone is really nice to grab the mids early which makes the rest of my typical strat easier
- With the mids you can try for a great eng to hammer out a Sistine Chapel
- Don't worry about super duper great cities. It's ok if you only have 3 quality cities (although obviously NOT optimal) just make sure you have a solid GP farm. Remember you'll need at least 6 (small or lower) or 9 (standard or larger) to get the 3 cathedral buildings for each religion.
- Try to get as many religions as possible

Ok so let's say you can *somehow* keep peace for the majority of the game, or at the very least stop people from DoW on you. I've dabbled in the following and won a couple games earlier than expected.

- stop teching (I haven't decided when is optimal)
- BUY all the religious/culture buildings
- 100% culture until you win

This works sometimes, although you get behind quickly and if you get attacked it's game over. Often however you can jump to an early tech lead and try to postpone an attack by bribes and creating wars amongst the AI.

Things that go bad and what I try

- I don't get enough religions! AAAAHHH

If this happens I focus on jacking up 2 cities as much as possible via buildings etc and basically culture bombing the 3rd one to keep up.

- I don't get the mids

Well stopping tech is basically out of the question because now you have to tech to democracy AND liberalism instead of just liberalism.

Anyways I'm still a newbie, I'd love to hear what the better players have to say!

 

[Supr49er]

...
- Stone is really nice to grab the mids early which makes the rest of my typical strat easier ...

Anyways I'm still a newbie, I'd love to hear what the better players have to say!

Welcome to the Forums c4mrk.

Keep on posting, everyone learns new stuff all the time here.

I find stone in only about 1/4 to 1/3 of my games.

 

[c4mrk]

Yea me too! I also was wondering, I swear I can *never* find marble. Is it just especially rare or is it simply that I'm playing maps (standard HoFs) that don't spawn it very often.

Also I know Balanced map isn't HoF legal but it's really great for getting started in culture victories. One big grassy continent makes it easier to trade/spread religion imo.

 

[Polobo]

wannabewarlord

Don't underestimate the power of playing a CRE(ative) leader like Pericles (with PHI(losophical)), Willem van Oranje (with FIN(ancial)), or Zara Yaqob (with ORG(anized)).

CRE leaders get:
+2 in all cities
Double Production Speed for: Library; Theater; Colosseum.

Creative is tricky in that while it sounds great for a cultural victory its benefits are fairly minimal when compared to the amount of culture-per-turn you need to sustain in your three primary cities. The 2cpt is nice but never doubles and only constitutes a small part during the final growth stages. The cheap library is nice and probably the best benefit. By the time you get drama self-building three theaters shouldn't be a big deal since you probably already have the library up from writing and monasteries/temples from the religious path. Plus, you probably won't have music yet which is the big investment mid-game for those three cities. The Colosseum doesn't generate culture and it isn't that hard to build IF you end up needing the happy faces.

Philosophical is great since you get more Great Artists.

Industrious for Wonder building, especially the National Park, Globe Theater, National Epic and Hermitage, plus the Sistine Chapel and Pyramids (to make those mid-game artists contribute to your science output).

Charismatic is interesting since you get the bonus for buildings you need to build anyway, and you can keep a stronger military mid/late game without the need to keep a large army enlisted.

Financial is good if/when you plan to boost the culture slider. However, specialist driven culture is generally safer since you don't take you technology rate during the endless-end-turn-phase of the game.

 

[pxpdoo]

wannabewarlord

Don't underestimate the power of playing a CRE(ative) leader like Pericles (with PHI(losophical)), Willem van Oranje (with FIN(ancial)), or Zara Yaqob (with ORG(anized)).

CRE leaders get:
+2 in all cities
Double Production Speed for: Library; Theater; Colosseum.

Going for culture?
Do this. And bomb to get over the threshhold. (Settling cannot, mathematically, be worth it), And Don't build any wonders in an-already-Legendary city. A shrine, a settled Prophet, even a Corporation that gives that last city a little bump...

 

[Clam Spammer]

Going for culture?
Do this. And bomb to get over the threshhold. (Settling cannot, mathematically, be worth it), And Don't build any wonders in an-already-Legendary city. A shrine, a settled Prophet, even a Corporation that gives that last city a little bump...

Why is settling never worth it? Settled Great Artists benefit from culture multipliers, while culture bombs don't. With Sistine Chapel, Free Speech and a couple of cathedrals (quite attainable), that's 42 per turn, and 56 in your Hermitage city. Don't forget that they contribute to research too.

When choosing which religions to spread to your cities first (if you get a choice), consider what resources you have. Cathedrals can be built faster if you have copper, stone or marble, depending on religion. If you are playing with Choose Religions enabled, you should take this into account when founding religions too, even if you're not going for a Cultural win.

 

[Jimmyballz]

Going for culture?
Do this. a Corporation that gives that last city a little bump...

Yes!!! Creative Constructions for me in my last game added +20 per city, since i had sooo many of it's resources.
More than any Civ Jewelers ive seen

 

[JBConquests]

I just lost a game via cultural victory to Suryavarman. I was 1/4 of a percentage point in population from winning a Domination victory.

I figured one more turn...

 

[pxpdoo]

Why is settling never worth it? Settled Great Artists benefit from culture multipliers, while culture bombs don't. With Sistine Chapel, Free Speech and a couple of cathedrals (quite attainable), that's 42 per turn, and 56 in your Hermitage city. Don't forget that they contribute to research too.

When choosing which religions to spread to your cities first (if you get a choice), consider what resources you have. Cathedrals can be built faster if you have copper, stone or marble, depending on religion. If you are playing with Choose Religions enabled, you should take this into account when founding religions too, even if you're not going for a Cultural win.

Okay, fine, if you can do it REALLY early, then okay, settle the DaVinci. Just looking at the per-turn vs. 4,000 part. Takes quite a few turns, and I don't start out knowing how (or if) I'll win.

 

[Balderstrom]

Yes but 4000 / 14 = 285 turns.
Take into consideration
Likely

+050% Culture for 75%+ Of the game
+100% Culture for 50%+ Of the game
+150% Culture for 25%+ Of the game
+200% Culture for 25%+ Of the game

14 x (( 0.50 x 0.75 ) + ( 0.50 x 0.50 ) + ( 0.50 x 0.25 ) + ( 0.50 x 0.25 ))
= 14 x ( 0.875 ) = 12.25
4000 / ( 14 + 12.25 ) = 152 Turns

Even a Normal game is 500 Turns.
A culture victory might end between 400 and 500 turns.
If we lowball it to 400, all you need to do is settle a GA before turn 248
and it will provide more culture than a CultureBomb.

 

[Genv [FP]]

Just out of curiosity, What leaders do you guys choose for a cult victory?

 

[Breunor]

Here is another recent thread with some good info on Cultural victories:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=273460


Genv, I like Saladin, the Chinese leaders although Mao is borderline, Ramses. A few others are real good too.


Best wishes,

Breunor