Damn, Izzy

NickGabben

Warlord
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
185
No game without Izzy, it seems. I've bumped into her now five or six games in a row, I think, and we usually end up on separate sides of the religious divide :) Not so much Shaka lately, though! Izzy, Gilgamesh and Qin have all been common opponents.

Perhaps it's a sign I should play as Spain...
 
I see the interest is high! I won't let that deter me, but I will use this thread to report on more or less noteworthy things I come across in my games. At least it will be confined to one thread then! (Plus nobody at home wants to listen... And if anybody else has stories to share but doesn't want to start a new thread, please feel free to join in! - If that not against forum policy, of course.)

So here are some of the things that have happened since last time around:

1. Started a game and bumped into Izzy and Qin again, but no Gilgamesh anywhere to be seen. Qin had found some islands and turned the cities on one of them into a colony and put whom in charge?? Gilgamesh, of course 🤦‍♂️

2. In another game, I sent out a caravel to scout the seas and Asoka popped up as the master of Huyana. I figured the other way around would have been more reasonable, but hey, maybe it's one of those games, where the dice just roll that way and Asoka isn't completely useless after all. After a bit more scouting of the coast line, it turned out Huyana had peace vassaled with his three-city empire. Asoka had managed to put down 13 cities on their shared continent. Admittedly, Huyana was kind of boxed in, but when I captured Cuzco later in the game, it had like all the wonders, so he hadn't really been trying very hard. :)
 
I was going to start tech brokering a bit and wanted to start with Zara. This is what he offered me when I put Nationalism on the table:
Zara deal.PNG


I'd rather not get Archery in the deal but when I made him un-offer it, he rejects the deal:
Zara no deal.PNG


What's the logic behind this move? My plan was to get some brownie points with him by accepting an in his eyes worse deal, but it seems he's on to me somehow...
 
Spain is a one-leader civ, which all have more weight in the random picks than multi-leader civs. For whatever reason, as you would think 3 French leaders would make it easier to get France in a game, for example, but the opposite is true in Civ4

The rejection of the deal is a common occurrence that stems from the AI having a set value it offers; if it alters in any way, they will outright reject sometimes, but just ask them their offer again and they put up the canned response. It's a disparity in what they calculate for an offer and what they actually value the traded items as, and goes both ways -- you can often get more out of AI in exactly the same way if they come to you with a ridiculous lowball offer, because they actually value your end more than what they are coded to present as an offer.

Zara is likely not willing to accept if you alter the deal because the AI actually values certain military tech very highly compared to the beaker cost and it's far more of an ask than he's willing to pay -- if the code that calculated his canned offer including Archery didn't tie his hands. Engineering is a prime example of these "higher valued techs" along with some others like HBR, Rifling, Guilds and Gunpowder and Railroad (BIG overvalue on it), which all trade for well above their cost, while other techs are simply cost + difficulty markup in terms of value.
 
I love Izzy, she sacrifices 100 conquistadors per turn into my Chichen Itza machine guns, rots to SoZ, and then gives me 2k gold for peace.
 
How out of your way do you go to spread irrigation to a grain resource somewhere inland? Do you farm over other resources (assuming you have multiples)?
 
And here's a post regarding Izzy again! Why doesn't she settle the corner there? (Or at least on the rice, AI style...)

1696856930730.png
 
Too close to Seville?
 
Exactly, who needs a double-food city that can share Barcelona's copper? I'd rather keep that jungle!!
 
I played a game on the weekend (no Izzy, though 😞) and after conquering my continent (two civs plus me), I met Justinian (and Boudica) on a continent of probably the same size as ours, so he had gone wild with settling cities. I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but it turns out he went the Willem research route (WRR) and teched anything but gunpowder and rifling (he had airships and built the Kremlin - thank you very much!), so my riflemen (and later infantry) made easy work of his longbows and maces, though I think he had a musket or two after a while. Always nice when it happens that way! Otherwise, when he's been left alone, he's usually more of a threat. Before throwing in the towel, he peace-vassaled to Boudica who at least had grenadiers, but I got them both in the end!
 
It's not a complete report, but at least some pictures!

Alex was on a continent with Mao and Zara whom he conquered after some back and forth. Justinian was on an island with sailing access and he had snuck a city on the northern most tip on Alex' home turf. You don't need to be a genius to understand what he'd target next. But once he'd taken Nicomedia he didn't make much progress (i.e., none at all), so after I had built a reasonable army (and capped Justinian myself), I shipped it and landed on a hill just outside:

Alex buh-bye.PNG


Thank you for volunteering for target practice!

Alex not quite buh-bye.PNG


Possibly I lost a cannon, otherwise it was quite a wipe-out, but he had so fricking many units that it still took two turns to capture the city... After that it was pretty smooth sailing with the most resistance coming from the Ethiopians, surprisingly enough. Mao had nothing and Alex kept building knights whereas Zara surprise-captured a city with a bunch of cuirassiers.

ANFSCD*:
I remember a game way back in the day when I was marching my Dutch army through Inca territory to fight the Zulus. Of course HC had culture pushing up to the closest Zulu city where Shaka had his army ready to go and just the turn I got there, there was a revolt, so all the units dropped to half health. Now THAT was a massacre and since Shaka and HC did not get along, they didn't have open borders so Shaka couldn't attack me back with his reinforcements as I was pointing and laughing from an Inca hill :)




*) Monty Python!
 
In one of my recent games, I managed to block off quite a bit of land which kept Shaka and Qin fighting for what they could get. Shaka was Hindu, Qin founded Judaism and adopted it after a while (not immediately) and I also went Hindu. It didn't take very long for Shaka to rather expectedly declare war on Qin, but he didn't have much success the first couple of thousand years with them signing peace treaties every now and then only to break them once they had expired, but eventually Qin bit the dust and capitulated.

Considering I had been left to my own devices and the other two had been fighting more or less all the time, I was miles ahead in tech and had started to prepare my own military force, because obviously Shaka was going to go after me next. Religious buddies at Pleased means jack to him! With a smile, I could see him rallying his forces in his border city - horse archers, maces, catapults and such. Unluckily for him, I was massing rifles and cannons, so when he declared (he had a couple of knights by then, but otherwise mostly backwards garbage) and had taken one step into my culture, he had his complete stack wiped immediately and there was nothing left in his cities. A couple of longbows, some crossbows and the occasional short-lived knight that tried to run by, so I took a city or two every couple of turns. Qin sent a stack of like two trebs, two knights and a mace, but once Shaka was down to two cities, he broke free and they both capitulated. And of course Qin had overtaken Shaka in score by then :)

After capping them both I shipped my forces over to Toku and Izzi (of course...) who were Buddhist friends, but Toku gave up surprisingly quickly after losing his army and one city. Izzi gave up after losing her cities 2-4 (Madrid would have been next up).
 
In one of my recent games, I managed to block off quite a bit of land which kept Shaka and Qin fighting for what they could get. Shaka was Hindu, Qin founded Judaism and adopted it after a while (not immediately) and I also went Hindu. It didn't take very long for Shaka to rather expectedly declare war on Qin, but he didn't have much success the first couple of thousand years with them signing peace treaties every now and then only to break them once they had expired, but eventually Qin bit the dust and capitulated.

Considering I had been left to my own devices and the other two had been fighting more or less all the time, I was miles ahead in tech and had started to prepare my own military force, because obviously Shaka was going to go after me next. Religious buddies at Pleased means jack to him! With a smile, I could see him rallying his forces in his border city - horse archers, maces, catapults and such. Unluckily for him, I was massing rifles and cannons, so when he declared (he had a couple of knights by then, but otherwise mostly backwards garbage) and had taken one step into my culture, he had his complete stack wiped immediately and there was nothing left in his cities. A couple of longbows, some crossbows and the occasional short-lived knight that tried to run by, so I took a city or two every couple of turns. Qin sent a stack of like two trebs, two knights and a mace, but once Shaka was down to two cities, he broke free and they both capitulated. And of course Qin had overtaken Shaka in score by then :)

After capping them both I shipped my forces over to Toku and Izzi (of course...) who were Buddhist friends, but Toku gave up surprisingly quickly after losing his army and one city. Izzi gave up after losing her cities 2-4 (Madrid would have been next up).
Very nice.
 
Another memorable game was when I was on the eastern-most part of a snaky continent. To the west as my only direct neighbour was Gilgamesh and behind him was Mao, Frederick, Charlemagne and Joao. Religion was pretty much all over the place, but I adopted Hinduism as it was founded by Gilgamesh. I was looking forward to a quiet teching game hiding behind the purple borders of Sumeria. I felt all the safer as Giggles was the worst enemy of three of the others (I believe he was on reasonable terms with Frederick) and he and I were very pleased with each other. Then all of a sudden the war horn blows and Giggles tells me the world isn't big enough for the two of us. I probably could have whipped to stay alive, but I really didn't feel like grinding, so I let him have this one :) Next time we meet will be different!! :hammer:
 
Another one: I'm usually not amused when the AIs make demands (I know, who is?), but in my last game I was actually very pleased to see Izzy :)rolleyes:) come knocking and demanding tribute of a petty sum of 135 gold. She had had a field day with the pushovers Asoka (not surprising, Jewish Indians vs. Buddhist Spaniards with considerable border tension), HC (more surprising, but he was also rocking Judaism) and then Zara peace vassaled to her, so I was alone against her and her harem (I was also Jewish and had been hiding behind the Judaist wall of Asoka and HC). Izzy didn't have any direct borders with me, but once she had taken especially Asoka's cities we were touching borders. Again, I could see her massing units in her newly acquired border city much like Shaka in that other game above and I wasn't really ready for war (yet), though I had started building up an army of cuirassiers. I think she tripped herself by making that demand, locking her into peace with me which gave me enough time to at least produce enough material to hold off her inevitable invasion and in time also push back and take out Asoka completely and - after a long slog - enough of her and HC's cities to force capitulations. If she had just gone for it, I would most likely have had to give up at least a couple of cities close to her and her vassals. Probably, I'd have been able to come out on top, but it would definitely have been much more cumbersome and it's not out of the question that I wouldn't have bothered...

In the meantime, Zara had sailed away and claimed offshore territory and put Sitting Bull in charge, but my holdings/takings on the main continent were enough to win by domination. I even converted to Buddhism once Zara demanded I do so to keep him from plotting on me. That pushed him to friendly (not that it really mattered), but it gave me some relief and also made it way more unlikely that the others peace vassaled to him. (Ah yes, that's right - he had broken free from Izzy shortly before the war broke out, almost forgot.) I was hoping to get conquest, but Zara's shenanigans and the stubbornness of the other two made that unlikely, but a win is a win!
 
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