Deep Sea Fishing Fleet

[Howard Mahler]

Proposed new building:
Deep Sea Fishing Fleet.

It would represent the ability to send out a deep sea fishing fleet from the coastal city in which it was built. No actual ship would be moved, but presumably the fleet is going outside cultural boundaries and bringing back fish.

Can only be built in coastal cities that already have a lighthouse and harbor.
Cost somewhat more to build than a harbor.
Tech either optics or astronomy.
Initially + 1 food, + 1 coin, + 1 hammer.
This increases to + 2 food, + 2 coin, + 2 hammer, upon getting steam power or another similar tech.
This increases to + 3 food, + 3 coin, + 3 hammer, upon getting refrigeration.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Hmm yes, why not. We can imagine a bunch of buildings or units. But i think such a fleet would be best translated into a unit, and an ocean ressource. This ressource, when worked (fishing boat), would provide +1 food for every city per ressource, even if it is the same. Those ressources could deplete until a certain abuse made out of them.

Maybe some ecological disaster could happen when working such a ressource for long AND with intensity (modern era, since and with oil), like the proliferation of certain algaes all over a given coast.

This gives me an idea of event: oil spill. (again, since oil, and with oil - player's civ or AI)

Another ecologic related idea could be to add a +1 gold bonus to all farms since the discovery of GMOs.

 

[Spitefire]

Try to keep up GMOs have done more more damage then good.

how about the crops made to produce pesticides within themselves, you dont think humans and animals can eat that stuff and not suffer from it, also you might want to read up on the GMO cotton sent to some indian farmers.

The GMO crops arnt made useing breeding thay are made with gene spliceing by folks that dont fully understand all the effects will be.

So a more accurate effect of a GMO tech would be -1 food and +1 unhealthyness per farm.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Try to keep up GMOs have done more more damage then good.

how about the crops made to produce pesticides within themselves, you dont think humans and animals can eat that stuff and not suffer from it, also you might want to read up on the GMO cotton sent to some indian farmers.

The GMO crops arnt made useing breeding thay are made with gene spliceing by folks that dont fully understand all the effects will be.

So a more accurate effect of a GMO tech would be -1 food and +1 unhealthyness per farm.

If they don't have advantages, why USA use it majorly? I think there are advantages, economic ones.

Plus, the fact that GMO produce their own pesticides is not very different to have usual pesticides inlaid in the crops.

As to the effects they may have on environment, nobody knows exactly, including the anti-GMO, but we can guess that they will not do major trouble to the environement, and if it were the case, nature would adapt, as it always did. Finally, the man adapts the nature to him since eons, and even if nature would be modified by GMO, it would not change much from what the man is doing since more of 6000 years now.

I'm all for discredit GMO, but not for their frankeistein part, much more for their economic way of functionning: if your fields are contamined by GMO, you must pay something to the companies owning them, what i feel is particularly unright and stupid.

 

[rysmiel]

Hmm yes, why not. We can imagine a bunch of buildings or units. But i think such a fleet would be best translated into a unit, and an ocean ressource. This ressource, when worked (fishing boat), would provide +1 food for every city per ressource, even if it is the same. Those ressources could deplete until a certain abuse made out of them.

I don't think either this or an improvement is the best model here.

I would rather see a deep sea fishing fleet as a unit that went to a certain spot in the middle of the sea, gathered food from all adjacent squares every turn for a certain number of turns that you could start or end as you liked, and then delivered this food to whichever city it then docked at.

Another ecologic related idea could be to add a +1 gold bonus to all farms since the discovery of GMOs.

I wouldn't make it gold, i'd make it food.

 

[rysmiel]

Plus, the fact that GMO produce their own pesticides is not very different to have usual pesticides inlaid in the crops.

Absolutely; if you want to simulate some sort of negative effect from using pesticides on crops, bring it in with chemical pesticides.

As to the effects they may have on environment, nobody knows exactly, including the anti-GMO,

Depends entirely on what the specific modification is.

I'm all for discredit GMO, but not for their frankeistein part, much more for their economic way of functionning: if your fields are contamined by GMO, you must pay something to the companies owning them, what i feel is particularly unright and stupid.

This is not a problem with a technology. It is a problem with a specific model of capitalism, and I think would be a lot better represented by something associated with government-type (because a social democracy more focused on public-private partnerships that tightly curtails the ability to copyright engineered organisms is not going to have this specific problem) than the technology. As a technology, I think we desperately need it; the more oil prices rise, the more chemical fertiliser prices will rise, so the more we will need to find other ways of maintaining crop yields.

 

[Howard Mahler]

The reason I did not make it a unit is that the player has to move it around each turn. Five fleets would be five more things for the player to do.

 

[rysmiel]

The reason I did not make it a unit is that the player has to move it around each turn. Five fleets would be five more things for the player to do.

This is not a drawback. This is a benefit.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

They had something like this in Alpha Centari.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Depends entirely on what the specific modification is.

Well i have no example of concrete damage GMO would have done on nature in mind.

This is not a problem with a technology. It is a problem with a specific model of capitalism, and I think would be a lot better represented by something associated with government-type (because a social democracy more focused on public-private partnerships that tightly curtails the ability to copyright engineered organisms is not going to have this specific problem) than the technology. As a technology, I think we desperately need it; the more oil prices rise, the more chemical fertiliser prices will rise, so the more we will need to find other ways of maintaining crop yields.

Technological or political, there is a problem. Firstly GMO didn't help african country as they said it would do. They simply can't pay it. I think GMO shouldn't be licencied at all. I would say it is rather a technical problem.

 

[Naokaukodem]

This is not a drawback. This is a benefit.

Wouldn't be so sure about it... I recently played Civilization IV: Colonization, and all i can say is that it was a pain to move food wagons all over the map. There's no challenge, it is simply doing the same thing everytime. I think that bringing the work boat once on the ressource would be ok. And i wouldn't care if it would bring me only casual benefits, because those benefits would be temporary. I prefer much more permanent benefits, aka the +1 food bonus. And maybe do the same for land ressources. (maybe with a certain technology, because it may be too much overpowered else -what do you think-)

 

[PieceOfMind]

Spoiler off-topic response to Spitefire :

Try to keep up GMOs have done more more damage then good.

how about the crops made to produce pesticides within themselves, you dont think humans and animals can eat that stuff and not suffer from it, also you might want to read up on the GMO cotton sent to some indian farmers.

Do you think scientists are so irresponsible to create organisms without any regard for the effects they have on the environment or other animals/humans? You musn't be a scientist I'm guessing.

The GMO crops arnt made useing breeding thay are made with gene spliceing by folks that dont fully understand all the effects will be.

I suppose you think that if something is not made the way God intended it to be made then it is inherently evil?

So a more accurate effect of a GMO tech would be -1 food and +1 unhealthyness per farm.

It's interesting you think that GM food should cause unhealthiness when one of its proven effects is, in third world countries GM rice had enough beta keratin in it to help prevent blindness caused by Vitamin A deficiency. I'm sure these people would be better off blind don't you think?

I'm sorry to react this way but it's infuriating to see people repeat claims of how dangerous GM food is as if to scare people away from it. In reality GM food has helped in many ways, and the risks have been carefully balanced with the benefits. Anti-GM persons tend to exaggerate the risks, while pro-GM persons tend to exaggerate the benefits.

 

[rysmiel]

Wouldn't be so sure about it... I recently played Civilization IV: Colonization, and all i can say is that it was a pain to move food wagons all over the map. There's no challenge, it is simply doing the same thing everytime.

I've not played Colonisation; it's a part of history that really does not appeal to me. (Damned disloyal colonials. It'll all end in tears in the long run, just you wait and see.) But food caravans or fleets that can be moved are food caravans or fleets that can be pirated, which would seem to offer more of a challenge than the same thing every time if well implemented, no ?

 

[Naokaukodem]

I've not played Colonisation; it's a part of history that really does not appeal to me. (Damned disloyal colonials. It'll all end in tears in the long run, just you wait and see.) But food caravans or fleets that can be moved are food caravans or fleets that can be pirated, which would seem to offer more of a challenge than the same thing every time if well implemented, no ?

Resource based fleets could still be pirated, by pillaging the square of the ressource.

 

[rysmiel]

Resource based fleets could still be pirated, by pillaging the square of the ressource.

Which is a different thing from having units to hunt. And IMO less fun.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Which is a different thing from having units to hunt. And IMO less fun.

In Civ, hunting units is not fun, especially sea units that can go in eight directions with big gaps.

 

[rysmiel]

In Civ, hunting units is not fun, especially sea units that can go in eight directions with big gaps.

I think it's already been made clear that you and I have different notions of fun, yes ?

 

[Silurian]

Howard Mahler@
I like the idea of deep sea fishing also outside BFC.
But it should be carried out by work boats after steam.
The work boat would move to a sea food resource then build fishing boats, whaling boats etc in the normal way.
The unit would then click on the city, which would require a trade route connection; it was supplying the resources too.
The yield would be -1 Food and -1 Gold too represent down time when the fish etc was being transported if outside borders and just -1 gold if within borders but not BFC.
If your cultural border expanded to cover that tile the penalty would be changed.


So get fishing off their coast so they have fewer specialists.
Send out a privateer to destroy the fishing boat so we can put our one there

 

[davane]

Why not make Deep Sea Fishing a building AND a unit/resource? The resource would work like Fishing and Whaling Boats, but not required to be within cultural borders (like forts). Meanwhile, the building improves the benefits of the resource.

As for GMOs, the most accurate way to represent the technology is to make it a compromise - Farms could provide +1 Food, but also provide -1 Unhealthiness. This way, the raw food yield is improved, but if cities cannot deal with the health issues of GMOs, there is no net gain, as the food ofsets the increased unhealthiness.

Alternatively, you could make a new farm improvement that represents GM-farms. This could be essentially a farm with the above compromise initially, but which later techs improve by removing the negative issues or improving the benefits. It might also provide increased bonuses over normal farms. This would give the player more control over incorporating GM-foods into their civilization, and give worker units more stuff to do in the late game.