Defensive Pact questions....

[Sherlock]

If I have a defensive pact with X and they are attacked by Y am I automatically at war with Y?

Since I got into this war from a defensive pact does it negate warmonger hate from X?

Or anyone else for that matter?

Will a civ sign a Defensive Pact with you while they are at war? If so does that automatically put you at war with their enemy, or do you have to have the DP when the war is declared?

I'm on a map where people are pretty much getting along and I'm thinking of doing a couple of defensive pacts.....

 

[AW Arcaeca]

To my knowledge:

1) Yes
2) No
3) I'm pretty sure, since it's the equivalent of X declaring war on you, not the other way around
4) No, you can't sign a DP while you are at war with anyone or while your intended ally is

 

[phillipwyllie]

If you sign a DP with someone and a civ you have a DOF with DOWs your DP civ then you DOW your DOF resulting in much hate from every civ. Never sign DP.

 

[Ryika]

Well, when you see 1-4 armies from different civs at your borders or if the partner is by far the military leader then a defensive pact is a good option.

 

[Makavcio]

Umm... AgressiveWimp, you are mistaken on quite a few matters.

If I have a defensive pact with X and they are attacked by Y am I automatically at war with Y?
You declare war on the attacker automatically.

Since I got into this war from a defensive pact does it negate warmonger hate from X? Or anyone else for that matter?
Nope. AI makes no distinction whatsoever here.

Will a civ sign a Defensive Pact with you while they are at war? If so does that automatically put you at war with their enemy, or do you have to have the DP when the war is declared?
Deals are not affected by wars. You can sign any deal with anyone when you or the other signee is at war. The obvious exception is the civ you are fighting.
Defensive Pact is triggered when war is declared. AI is completely oblivious about its existence in other situations. When you or your DP partner go to war, DP is broken and if you are good friends, you can expect DP offer the next turn.

DP is a trap, because when it's triggered, you are the one who declares war. It's extremely important because when war is declared on your ally, it's not declared on you at the same time. It's you who declares war on the attacker. If you chose to make a chain of DoFs and DP, you may end up declaring war on one of your friends and on several city states other civs protect. Your relations with everyone will be shattered.

 

[GoStu]

Your technical questions have been answered, now here's the real underlying question.

DEFENSIVE PACTS ARE UTTERLY WORTHLESS. NEVER SIGN THEM.

Seriously, have you ever had an AI ally in a war accomplish anything significant or come to your rescue? At best they'll manage to backstab your enemy, but they're just as likely to sit around doing nothing. So there's nothing to gain, and almost everything to lose. Your entire diplomatic game can be ruined forever.

How this was not fixed in G&K or BNW I have no idea. A simple fix would be to make the attacker get the dialog (when declaring war): "Declaring War on this Civilization will also Declare War on ______. Are you sure you wish to Declare War?". Also, adding the same prompt as a Research Agreement would be very nice too.

 

[Mista]

Yes, i have had allies come to my aid. Sort of. Usually they attack my enemy's cities, hoping to gain one for themself, but still, that relieves the pressure on me.

 

[Ryika]

It's also a diplomatic bonus for you if you fight against a common foe and it spreads hate throughout the world which can never be a bad thing (in Civ). If you know you're being attacked, signing a Defensive Pact with a strong ally is usually not a bad idea.

Just don't sign them for no reason, that can backfire quite easily.

 

[Sherlock]

My deal was I had two mediumish strong neighbors, one was Alexander. I didn't want him to conquer the other neighbor and so become much stronger.

So I signed a defensive pact with the other neighbor because I wasn't going to let Alexander get that big.

But it seems there's no real value to this, I could just DOW Alexander when he makes his move.

 

[Ryika]

Yes, defensive pacts only make sense when you're the one who is being attacked. Other than that it doesn't really make any difference - which is just stupid. Imho if it's being triggered the player should have the decision to declare war and get a mediocre diplomacy boost with the Civ that he's got the pact with - or a big (global?) diplomacy hit if he denies.