Diplomatic advice please!

[grandad1982]

I'm playing a standard, fractal map, marathon. Leader is Alex, difficulty is noble. BTS 3.13

First of all sorry about the amount of text here, but my civ computer doesn’t have the internet at the mo. If any body wants to see a save or some screen shots I can but you’d have to tell me how to put them on the site and maybe wait a little!

This is mainly a request for some diplomatic advice, though any advice is nice of course! Below is a summery of the world.

I started on a large U shaped continent. I'm in the bottom cup of the U. AIs are/where Toku, Wang, Willem, and Zara – that I know of so far. Toku was to my east, but I've killed him off even though fighting his protective cities was slower than I would have liked ! My next neighbour to the east and at the top of the U is Wang. Another protective civ? . I've kind of fallen into a war with Wang as he settled a city in my newly won territory, which I felt was pretty cheeky. So far I've razed two of his cities and captured another two.
On my immediate west is Willem. This guy is potential monster! He expands really quickly and grabs the land and then techs really fast. Which is what he did behind me whilst I was warring. Luckily he's pleased with me and we are Hindus in the AP together with Zara who is the other side of Willem. Zara is doing well for himself too! Zara and I are friendly. Basically its one big love in between us three
No one likes Wang as he's Buddhist! Haha .

My economy is doing ok and I founded Confucianism and spammed it a bit.
Tech wise again I'm going ok - I got a great spy against the odds and infiltrated the Hague, netting myself Machinery and Feudalism! I also won the Lib race and took PP. Maybe I should have taken Nationalism?

Now the problem is, if at some hypothetical time in the future I declared on the Dutch what are the chances the AP is going nail me, and if it will how can I stop this other than just giving into the vote? He’s the AP founder and has most votes, 6 more than Zara and 26 more than me. It’s a bit like I’m a LibDem. I voted for Zara so he’s resident and likes me more than Willem.
Will Zara ever vote not to stop the war?
Am I going about this the wrong way? When I finish with Wang I’ll have half the continent pretty much. Should I just settle down in the Renaissance????

Hope my spelling isn't to bad!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I don't have BTS, but from my understanding AP votes are based on pop you control that has that religion. I'd recommend killing the buddhist and attempting to get your hands on a controlling amount of AP votes, if you can get the room for it (wiping out 2 civs should be able to grant you a controlling amount of votes though, probably.

Of course, there's always the option of a strategic backstab, RIGHT INTO THE AP CITY, where it gets conveniently razed to hell. I think that stops it.

Either of those should work. If not, you can always choose to pick on another, non-hindu continent.

 

[grandad1982]

Raze it? Thats never occured to me!
Hows this as an idea? Finish of Wang, hopefully before Willem DoW on Wang and nicks any more of "my" territory. Use all this new land to gain control of the AP.
Can you change the APs religon?
Also Willems favorite civic is free religion. How does this effect the way the AP works? If your in free religion does the AP still affect you?

If all else fails then I can just raze the AP and we're all free!

 

[madscientist]

Without seeing the game, here are some considerations.

1) Willem. Does he have Liberalism yet? He loved Free Religion and typically switches even if he has the AP. If he does not switch, consider him a frined and wait.

2) Finish off the Korean.

3) Leave Zara alone but adopt theocracy to share that favored civic deal. Let him keep that cultural pressure on Willem.

4) Spread to AP religion to all your cities if not already. Make sure former Japanese cities have them as well as future Korean. I rarely allow the AP to dictate what I plan on doing.

5) You took PP for free, good. Follow the techpath towards rifling then hit Willam with rifles. Hopefully by then he is in FR and you can bribe Zara into attacking from the rear.

 

[madscientist]

You cannot change the AP religion as far as I know.

 

[grandad1982]

Theocracy would be good to finish off Wang too. I think only one of my cites isn't Hindu. I have gained cities sinse the last vote though.
I also like the idea of rifles as well. lots of city raider rifles. Hahahahahahaha....!

 

[SlipperyPeople]

It doesn't seem to me that the AP is going to present a significant problem to you. As you invade the Netherlands you'll be accumulating more ap votes yourself. Since you're of the AP religion, you don't have to fear a mass DOW on you. The worst that can happen, initially, is that they can make you take a 10 turn break in waxing willem. Just attack again and get more votes/cities to prevent the AP from every forcing you to give back what is rightfully yours. I believe they will always vote to stop the fighting before they vote to award your cities to willem, so stay at war until will is no more or until you can block any vote that you don't like.

 

[grandad1982]

In the end I sold Willem Lib for the the FR. When he switched his votes got cut in half. I was thinking he'd have no votes. I also finished off Wang and I now control the AP - even in FR Willem was my only rival in the election so with Zara and my votes I was a shoe in! I also have the most votes now.

With Willem in FR is he an elligable target for the AP penalties or is he safely out of it?

Its not that I've never played a game with the AP before its just that I've never been in a postion to be affected by it or to really us it much!

One final note Rifleing is nearly in and Willem and Zara came scrounging for printing press. Yer right guys. On your bikes!!

Oh one final final thing. How often dothe AI build Versailles? One of the AIs i haven't met is areal wonder hog and I want Versailles to help control my continent.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

zara should be 99.9% bribable into war with wilhelm if some random event didn't occur and put them to friendly. From there on...

 

[dante alighieri]

Raze it? Thats never occured to me!
Hows this as an idea? Finish of Wang, hopefully before Willem DoW on Wang and nicks any more of "my" territory. Use all this new land to gain control of the AP.
Can you change the APs religon?
Also Willems favorite civic is free religion. How does this effect the way the AP works? If your in free religion does the AP still affect you?

If all else fails then I can just raze the AP and we're all free!

The thing is, you'll want to hit the AP city hard and fast. The AP resolution to stop the war can come up fast and you don't want to give the AI time to build up its forces if you get thwarted. Is the AP city a holy city?

 

[bestje]

you are only a target for the AP penalties if you have no cities of the AP's religion

can you not defy resolutions from the AP, i'm sure i have in the past, it just makes all your AP religion cities unhappy

the AI loves building versailles right next to its capital, very handy for warmongers

 

[grandad1982]

So far my plan is to send a large force of knights/cav to the AP city direct - and without double checking I don't think its a holy city - and have some spys waiting there to take down the cultural defences. While my AP strike team do this my SoD - CR 2&3 rifles and trebs - will move in and take cities between my lines and the strike force. The AP is about 4 turns away from the front line.
The problem with this plan is that I reckon the strike force won't survive long.

@ bestje. How much unhappyness does defiance cause. All my cities are the AP religion, but I also have a fair amount of excess happyness at the mo?

Also since I control the AP can I just not propose the vote?

 

[grandad1982]

As it turns out the the AP hasn't had much effect on me.

Just before I was going to DoW on Willem I got a great merchant which I sent off for 3300 which when combined with my cash reseves upgraded my SoD maces to rifles - over 6000!
Next I bribed Zara with PP to DoW on Willem. After this I waited afew turns and DoW myself.
I had a stack of 3 spies in the AP city,which was lucky as 2 were discovered before my strike force reached it! I sent a stack of about 10 knights direct to the AP city - 3 turns movement - and sent my SoD to attack the cities nearest my main production city, which was right on the border. I razed one city before the strike team reached the AP city and captured another on the same turn I attacked the AP city.
The turn after the knights reached the AP I revolted it with my spy and then attacked not losing a single unit! Instead of razing I captured the city - it has loads of wonders and is a sweet site for Maori and a drydock. Hopefully not razing wasn't a mistake!

Zara has lost a city to Willem but basically its all over for the Dutch, even though they have loads of land left. My rifles will soon change that!

Thanks for the advice guys! Turns out those people who said the AP wasn't going to be a major problem were right!

 

[bestje]

just to answer your questions for future reference;

control of the AP is like the UN it doesn't matter who has the building if you are the resident you decide what the votes are

unhappiness caused by it is problematic but if the religion is not too widespread it shouldn't cause much problem, i think its about 4/5 unhappy faces but i'm not definite
and it disappears next time you vote yes or no on a resolution
probably razing the AP removes it as well, it would be a bit of a poor design if it stayed anyway