DLCs after Brave New World

[AbsintheRed]

One of the main reasons for this thread is the ancient wonders DLC
There are many small clues pointing to the direction that Sumer and the Hittites were meant to be released as full civs, in a double civ pack
With Assyria in the expansion, and with the theme of BNW in mind, there is basically no chance for another middle-eastern civ
I still very much hope that both of them will get in eventually, that they will be (re)released in a full civ DLC

Another big reason is that there are still many civs I would love to see in Civ V, and obviously I'm not alone with this
While the game and the new civs are popular, probably Firaxis will want to add as many civs as possible, for further profit of course
So, there is a strong possibility that they will still keep some of the most popular civs out of Brave New World, and will add them later as DLCs
Apart from the aformentioned Sumer-Hittite civs, the Zulu, the Sioux, maybe even Portugal can get into this category (though the last is rather unlikely)

Also, I really hope that the remaining civs from previous civ titles will also get in eventually. Only the serious ones of course: Khmer and Mali
They are somewhat unlikely to get into the expansion, as there are some opinions against them
But I have no idea where people got that the overlap between Songhai/Mali and Siam/Khmer is too big
Both Khmer and Mali are very worthy additions, and both should get their well-deserved places even if the other 2 civs are in
The overlap between Songhai and Mali are not bigger than the overlap between Denmark and Sweden for example, the overlap between Siam and Khmer is less then the overlap between France and Germany...

Hungary also belongs to this category. The way Firaxis set up their Austria civ is very upsetting, medieval Hungary was one of main powers (if not the biggest power) of central and eastern Europe.
Unique culture and heritage, one of the most successful dynasties, continuous rule over a huge territory for more than 600 years, very colorful history, etc...
You cannot just scratch that and lump Hungary into Austria because of Austria-Hungary and it's role in WW1 are more well-known
I will also add Phoenicia to this category. Not totally the same case as for the previous 3 civs, but still close enough.
There is an overlap with Carthage of course, but it's not bigger than it was in the previous examples. Not bigger than it is between England and the USA
Phoenicia, one of the earliest (and such a successful) trading/colonizing power, home of one of the first alphabets, cannot remain absent from the civ franchise forever

Finally, civs probably absent from the expansion because of political reasons.
Israel, as in the ancient Israel/Hebrews, and Tibet, as in the Tibetan Empire.
These civs also have very low chance, but would also be very worthy additions, would fit into Civ V very much.
The political controversies may be bypassed with these civs released as DLCs

So, what this means for actual (potential) DLCs:
The most popular civs, which may go as DLCs exactly because of their popularity:
Zulu
Sioux
Portugal

And we have quite a couple civs which would be one of the most worthy additions, yet they have somewhat little chance to get into BNW:
Sumer
Hittite
Hungary
Khmer
Mali
Phoenicia
Israel
Tibet

All these civs are among the most worthy remaining candidates (popularity, historical and cultural significance, well-knowness, etc...)
Obviously I will route for any of them to be included in BNW
But as most of them will probably not, I very much hope, that all the remaining ones will be released as DLCs eventually

What do you think, what DLCs will we see after BNW?

PS: If Indonesia and Kongo won't get in as a full civ in BNW, I will also hope for them as later DLCs.
Though I think it's rather unlikely that they won't get in, given the theme of the expansion.
Also, I assumed that Assyria is 100% to be in, along with Poland

 

[Uberfrog]

I'm not sure we will see any DLCs post-BNW. The fact there haven't been any in the year-long gap between G&K and BNW suggests to me that they're not interested in standalone DLCs for CiV any longer.

There is a profit-cost balance in having people working on this stuff, and I'm not sure they won't just move onto a different project entirely.

Besides, after this, there will be 43 civs. I'm not sure there's any need for any more past that.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I'm not sure we will see any DLCs post-BNW. The fact there haven't been any in the year-long gap between G&K and BNW suggests to me that they're not interested in standalone DLCs for CiV any longer.

There is a profit-cost balance in having people working on this stuff, and I'm not sure they won't just move onto a different project entirely.

Besides, after this, there will be 43 civs. I'm not sure there's any need for any more past that.

I'm pretty sure there will be another DLC run, when they don't plan more expansion for Civ V
IMO the lack of DLCs between GnK and BNW was because they already planned/worked on the second expansion (at least very soon after GnK was released)

 

[Akinaba]

For some reason I believe that there aill be third big expantion on CiV.

First of all, because they need to mximize profit from the single product. The second reason is that they need to set oneself a new lath of developing as well as prepareing customer for bigger expences.

Personnaly I would like to see more detailed digital and/or postmodern era, extended politics (alliances, international projects (ISS, LHC)) and espionage as well as new mehanics, like electricity and new energetic resourse like natural gas. Science victory overhauled (a little bit more detailed sapce race maybe) and appearance of religious victory.

Speaking of civilizations I expect the same as said above. Maybe it will be cool to see Aincient Armenians as well.

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

Maybe an Indus River Valley Civilization. (At least that are my hopes.)

 

[CivCube]

It's a toss-up after BNW. For the past two games a second expansion means the end of the road for new releases. But Fifty Civs in a Civ 5 Complete sounds very tidy.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Maybe an Indus River Valley Civilization. (At least that are my hopes.)

Harappans could be a cool civ, altough any of the civs I mentioned in the first post would probably be better choices

Btw, does anyone think there might be wonder DLC(s) as well, after BNW?
Only 2 wonder places remain in the expansion, and I still miss quite a few way too important wonders

 

[Akinaba]

Oh! Just came to mind that I would like to see Natural Wonders DLC. I would happily by it!

 

[Snoopaloop]

One of the main reasons for this thread is the ancient wonders DLC
There are many small clues pointing to the direction that Sumer and the Hittites were meant to be released as full civs, in a double civ pack

What are some of the clues you are talking about? Were there in-game files with that DLC that referenced either civ or something?

AbsintheRed, maybe its time to change your signature. You seem to be boycotting Civ V DLC there, but hoping for it in your thread. I didn't like it either before the first run came out, but I bought every piece (even the mapscripts I've never used) and hope for a second run. As long as the civ playstyles are unique between their UA/B,U's I'll make the purchase.

 

[Menzies]

The question about DLC is an interesting one. One option is that they do the same that they did with vanilla and offer a free DLC with preorders. If they did this again it would be almost certain that another DLC run is coming, although, as I've said on here before, due to the time and effect it takes to produce DLC, if there were another run of DLC it would almost certainly spell the end of the Civ V production cycle.

The reason we didn't see any DLC between the release of Gods & Kings and now was almost certainly because they spent their time making Brave New World rather than DLC, which makes sense (and was part of my logic when predicting an Expansion was coming this year, all the way back in December). We'll have to wait and see if they'll make more though, I would expect so, but I'd also expect that if it comes it would start almost immediately and would spell the end of the release cycle.

Also, the signature and thread combination is an absolute classic! I remember being on the "wrong" side of the DLC debate when defending the idea was seen as somewhat sacrilegious around here. At the time I said, and I still feel this way, that DLC in the style made for the game would ultimately be embraced and if we stopped getting it we'd be crying out for more.

 

[Tsuchinoko]

43 does seem like a strange number of civs to leave the game at, but Firaxis/2k doesn't always seem to make decisions that seem logical to us here on the forum.

I did notice something interesting that may hint at the possibility future content though. Each expansion thus far has had 9 civs. G+K brought the total up to 34 (18 vanilla civs + 7 DLC civs + 9 expansion civs) - which is the same as the total number of civs that were in Civ IV BtS. Brave New World then adds another 9 civs for a total of 43. If you were to add another 9 on top of that, either from a third expansion or as DLC, we would have a total of 52 civs, which would be the same as the total number of different leaders that there were in Civ IV BtS. As each Civ in Civ V only has one leader, we would then have a total of 52 leaders in game - the same as BtS. I realise that it's a bit of a stretch to come to that conclusion using that logic, but who knows? 52 seems a nicer number than 43 at least.

 

[Menzies]

Looking at the Numbers:

Civ V: 18
DLC I: 7
G&Ks: 9
BNW: 9
DLC II: 7?

Matches the first DLC run, a nice round 50.

Let the speculation begin!

 

[Snoopaloop]

43 does seem like a strange number of civs to leave the game at, but Firaxis/2k doesn't always seem to make decisions that seem logical to us here on the forum.

I did notice something interesting that may hint at the possibility future content though. Each expansion thus far has had 9 civs. G+K brought the total up to 34 (18 vanilla civs + 7 DLC civs + 9 expansion civs) - which is the same as the total number of civs that were in Civ IV BtS. Brave New World then adds another 9 civs for a total of 43. If you were to add another 9 on top of that, either from a third expansion or as DLC, we would have a total of 52 civs, which would be the same as the total number of different leaders that there were in Civ IV BtS. As each Civ in Civ V only has one leader, we would then have a total of 52 leaders in game - the same as BtS. I realise that it's a bit of a stretch to come to that conclusion using that logic, but who knows? 52 seems a nicer number than 43 at least.

There is a lot more work in making a full new civ in 5 (with its UA, new UU/UB combo who's game play is differentiated from the current civs) than there was in just making new leader-heads (just combining already created abilities, and attaching the to existing UU/UB's).

I hope you're right but it is a lot more work this time around than just having alternate leaderheads "artwork" in civ 4.


EDIT:
....but if Menzies is going to continue to play Nostradamus, then just maybe...

 

[Tsuchinoko]

There is a lot more work in making a full new civ in 5 (with its UA, new UU/UB combo who's game play is differentiated from the current civs) than there was in just making new leader-heads (just combining already created abilities, and attaching the to existing UU/UB's).

I hope you're right but it is a lot more work this time around than just having alternate leaderheads "artwork" in civ 4.

That is indeed true, and I'm not sure how profitable the expansions/DLC have been for Firaxis/2K, so I'm not sure how economically viable it would be for them to produce more. I do hope they are able to though - having new stuff added to the game helps to keep the gameplay experience 'fresh', and the new civs are probably the thing I get most excited about. I'm really looking foward to seeing what's revealed at PAX next week.

 

[ahawk]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's at least one double-civ pack after BNW.

Why?

It's profitable: let's say it's a ten dollar double-pack (which, I believe, Inca/Spain was, at least at first). That's 1/3 the cost of a full out expansion, but probably 1/10 the work (or far less). That alone is a good reason why there likely will be at least a little DLC. That, and what is Firaxis working on in the mean-time? X-Com expansion, likely, and this. Moreover, wasn't Denmark a civ that appeared in the opening intro to vanilla, but didn't appear until DLC? I surmise that certain things have been set in stone for quite some time, especially because I doubt they've been bringing Leonard Nemoy in over and over again to do voice-work for the narration during the loading screen for each civ. Q.E.D.: probably alot of assets have been in place already for months. The Civil War assets have been there for ages, so I imagine many other assets that weren't coded into G&K are already recorded and ready to be coded in (artwork, voice, music, etc).

All this leads me to believe that any DLC will be finished in conjunction with BNW, and that likely there will be at least a little DLC (a double-pack brings it to 45 civs, after BNW and everything else, which despite not being 50, is at least a multiple of five, which is a solid number).

 

[Menzies]

Nimoy isn't the voice actor for Civ V, it's Morgan Sheppard.

If they do DLC again, it would be as a run like last time, and I wouldn't expect any less than 7 new civs from it (if it were to eventuate) between July-August and March-April 2014. If this were the way it were to happen, then we could expect an announcement in early 2016 for a September 2016 Civ VI release.

 

[Menzies]

Also, the intro video is unlikely to have any real reference to anything in particular beyond what they were thinking about at the time it was made. There's nothing in there that screams solely the Danes either, but it's important to remember that a lot was cut from the first choice just because they decided against it (Mount Everest, Panama Canal, LHC, Three Gorges Dam, the Everglades, etc.) and whilst these things may be included in the future, I doubt the "removed content" hypothesis for DLC as it doesn't fit how their production scheduals have gone. If it were simply "removed content" that they are selling at a Premium, rather than new content they are making as they go, then you'd expect that there would be some released between Gods & Kings and now as no production time would have been required to make it, whilst there hasn't been.

 

[ahawk]

Nimoy isn't the voice actor for Civ V, it's Morgan Sheppard.

If they do DLC again, it would be as a run like last time, and I wouldn't expect any less than 7 new civs from it (if it were to eventuate) between July-August and March-April 2014. If this were the way it were to happen, then we could expect an announcement in early 2016 for a September 2016 Civ VI release.

Wow, goes to show how much cIV I played back in the day. That's the one with Nimoy

 

[turingmachine]

I really doubt there will be DLC after BNW and BNW is probably the last content update we'll get for Civ V.

One of the reasons I think they stopped DLC after Vanilla is that it becomes complicated to design for the expansions. Either you have to make them require the expansions, which is a poor sales move as DLC by itself doesn't sell more than base games or expansion and then your limiting this audience even more (convince people to buy DLC for a DLC?), or you have to design a version which will work for everything, in which case you have to only include base features and abilities. (They can make new features, sure, but things like faith, espionage, the new trade routes, archeology, great works, would all be off limits, and no, it's even more unlikely they'll do twice the work to make two abilities each for half the audience).

Having the end civ count be 45 or 43 is absolutely inconsequential. The producers writing the checks aren't looking at 43 and thinking the number looks odd.

 

[seasnake]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not gonna bet against Menzies at this point. Just not a good idea.

So yeah, if you have 43 civs you could easily get to 50. I mean, if you want to you could easily point the following as reasonably likely to get in this go around:

35 civs known (including Poland from BNW)

8 unknown civs, based on the info far some likely candidates could be

1) Assyria
2) Portugal
3) Kongo
4) Zulu
5) Majapahit (domestic trading and Borobudur)
6) Cherokee (Civil War Scenario)

which leaves two more civs slotted for BNW and potentially 7 for DLCs. I think the fanbase wouldn't squawk at getting any of the following:

1) Sumeria
2) Hittites
3) Khmer
4) Sioux

Former civs that people think fondly of. I do think HRE, Mali, Vikings/Scandinavia are simply too much overlap of existing civs, even though they have been included previously. But that would leave five wild cards that would be brand new. They could really give the fans some love with:

5) Brazil

Which I think after Poland is probably one of the most requested, and then they could add some great empires like

6) Khazars
7) Timurids
8) Chola
9) The Moors

To really increase diversity and acknowledge areas not always recognized in Western Culture. But of course, my latest is guess is that we're getting another european civ in BNW, and it will be

ITALY

Based on the trade fleets focus, the new Uffizi wonder, the new Great Works mechanic, another viable option for autocracy later in the industrial era and based on this little wikipedia gem:

"The Italian Empire (Italian: Impero Italiano) was created after the Kingdom of Italy joined other European powers in establishing colonies overseas during the "scramble for Africa". Modern Italy, as a unified state, had only existed from 1861. By this time, France, Spain, Portugal, Britain and the Netherlands, had been carving out large empires for several hundred years. One of the last remaining areas open to colonisation was on the African continent."