Do the AI need map resouces?

[wiltshiretony1956]

I've been playing CIV3 since my Atari days. Just recently I thought I'd pick it up again after a long time away. Now on PC but still find CIV3 a great game to play.

But here is my question: Recently I planned to go to the war with the Portugese. I sent an explorer of to expose their hidden cities and resources. Found that they had Iron and Saltpeter but no horses. Hurrah I thought, time to go in with my Cavalry and wipe them out. But as soon as I attacked their cavalry turned up and gave me a good kicking. Where did they get their horses from? And did i miss something in my pre-battle research?

Hope someone can take the time to answer this. It's kinda taken the gloss off.

Cheers

Tony

 

[Lord_Hill]

The AI certainly do need resources just like the player. Don't forget you/they can trade for them too if none is available in your territory.

 

[Fergei]

You can see what resources they have by speaking to them. If you have horses, but there is no option to to trade them with another Civ then that means they have access to them. If the option to trade is listed, even if it is greyed out, it means they do not have that resource or luxury.

Of course, they could have previously have been purchasing horses but no longer have them. That way they could still surprise you with a cavalry unit.

It can be an idea to put a unit near their border and see what unit types rush out to look at you. But the only fullproof way is probably spying. But that is so risky.

Also, in this case perhaps they had built a city on a horse tile and that is why you never saw it

 

[Civinator]

... and also important: wiltshiretony1956, welcome at CFC!

 

[wiltshiretony1956]

Thanks for the helpful replies folks. That trade tip is an eye opener, never considered that. I knew that they didn't have horse tiles under cities as I did a map clear search.

And thank you for the tuneful welcome.

 

[Quintillus]

You can also check who they are trading with via the Trade Advisor screen, looking at Active Deals. If there's more than one, you won't know who is trading them Horses (unless you can determine only one of their trading partners has Horses to trade), but if you can determine who's trading the horses, that can be helpful for trying to convince that civ to sign a Trade Embargo or Military Alliance against them and thus end their access. They're less likely to if they are trade partners, but occasionally it's still possible (or just sign a Mutual Protection Pact and wait for the Portuguese to attack you in your own/neutral, thus cancelling their access to horses and dooming them).

A slight clarification to Fergei's post is that if they previously had access, they can both use units they built while they had access, and finish any units that were in-progress when they lost access. I ran into this in one of my recent games, where I cut their Saltpeter access, but continued to see new Cavalry incoming for a few turns as they finished the ones that they'd already started.

And indeed, welcome to CFC!

 

[Lanzelot]

they can both use units they built while they had access, and finish any units that were in-progress when they lost access.

Exactly. And the same goes for the player as well. I use this sometimes, when I urgently need to buy something and have nothing else for trade than my only resource of horses/iron/saltpeter/coal: set a few cities on producing whatever needs the resource (or let a few workers start constructing railroads, if you are giving away your coal), and only then make the trade. Those build projects (and worker projects) will still finish without the resource.

 

[Spoonwood]

But the only fullproof way is probably spying. But that is so risky.

Investigating their capital consists of another way to see if they have a luxury or resource on that turn.

 

[wiltshiretony1956]

I usually wait until I'm just about to launch an attack before I create an embassy in the opponents capital. This gives a clue as to what forces I'm likely to encounter in lesser cities/towns.

 

[vorlon_mi]

Yes, I do that too. When possible, wait to establish the embassy (and get a free peek at their capital) when I can maximize the value. Espionage is risky, but doing an "Investigate city" mission from the same screen is not dangerous (risk angering the AI) but can be costly in gold. Competing interests: save the gold for upgrading units, or spend it to get a peek at the city I will be attacking.

 

[wiltshiretony1956]

Just won a campaign where I did not create a single leader or army. Have I accidentally turned something off?

 

[Quintillus]

Just won a campaign where I did not create a single leader or army. Have I accidentally turned something off?

Probably not. It's probability-based, I think it's a 1/16th chance of generating a military great leader when an Elite unit wins in offensive combat, and lower (1/12th?) for Militaristic civs, and also lower (1/12th, 1/8th?) if the Heroic Epic has been built - which requires having already generated a leader and won with an Army. The probabilities are halved for defense combat. Don't quote me on the numbers as they are from memory, but it's in that general ballpark.

So it's entirely possible to never have a Great Military Leader in a campaign, especially if it's peaceful, but even in a warlike game on small maps. In one of my recent games on a Tiny map, I didn't generate a military great leader until nearly the end, despite having conquered enough to have 60% of the land area.

In addition to choosing a Militaristic civ, you can increase your practical odds by making sure you have Barracks in the cities where you train troops - halving the promotions required to be eligible to generate a leader - and "leader fishing" - saving your Elite units for attacks on weaker enemy units where they are all but guaranteed to win, when you are wishing you had a leader (the tradeoff being that you'll lose more of your Regular/Veteran units fighting the stronger of the enemy units). Going with a Horseman/Knight/Cavalry army rather than Swords/Longbows also helps, as if your Elite unit fails to win, there is a significant chance (58% IIRC) that they will retreat and live to try to generate a great leader again.

 

[wiltshiretony1956]

Thank you so much for your most detailed and informative reply to my query.

I was playing as the English, on a large world, with seven opponents. I always build barracks to give my forces Veteran status.

Glad to read that it was not because I had something turned off.

Also, apologies to Admin. I should have made this subject in a separate thread.

 

[justanick]

It's probability-based, I think it's a 1/16th chance of generating a military great leader when an Elite unit wins in offensive combat, and lower (1/12th?) for Militaristic civs,

It is the same for all tribes. 1/12 when attacking with HE, 1/16 when attacking without HE, 1/24 when defending with HE and 1/32 when defending without HE.

Erfahrungsstufen (Civ3) – CivWiki

wiki.civforum.de

Going with a Horseman/Knight/Cavalry army rather than Swords/Longbows also helps, as if your Elite unit fails to win, there is a significant chance (58% IIRC) that they will retreat and live to try to generate a great leader again.

It is 66% for elite, 58% for veteran, 50% for regular and 34% for conscript.