Does disabling objective goals have any effect?

[Socratatus]

I always disable objective goals in options in my games. I don`t like having a pop up telling me the AI won a scientific or diplomatic victory, etc. With this off those notifications go away.

However does turnining this off do anything else?

I personally don`t think so since the AI will go for whatever objectives anyway, except I`m never certain what until their actions reveal them- Which suits me just fine. But I just wanted to check if anyone knows for sure? Does it affect anything else?

 

[zxcvbob]

You're disabling certain victory conditions? Yes, that does change how the AI's play. For example, usually most of the AI's love it when you propose Arts Funding in the world congress, but if cultural victory is disabled they will all hate you for it.

I'm playing a game now with domination and time victories disabled. And I'm Attila. There's a lot less warring than usual, and the AI's didn't expand as much in the early game. We're in the modern age now, and they've started settling new cities and I'm not sure why. (I just settled a city to get some oil; I controlled a whole continent w/o any oil, and I'll need battleships soon)

 

[joncnunn]

Fairly minor; AIs seeking a Domination Victory get +2 rating on aggression along with similar minor increases on building units. (And differences in strength of military [according to the Demographics screen / Military advisor which undervalues ranged units] increase AI wars.)

In addition, an AI seeking a Domination Victory when it first founds an ideology isn't allowed to pick Freedom. (There's a similar an AI seeking Diplomatic Victory won't pick Order / AI seeking Space Race Victory won't pick Autocracy)

But high culture flavor AIs still want to build lots of culture buildings even with cultural victory off.

Disabling Time Victory doesn't impact the AI; it doesn't actually seek this type anyway. (It might just look like it due to how much unfocused it is in late game compared to a human seeking a specific type.)

 

[zxcvbob]

I thought disabling time victory might keep them from spamming so many cities, since the scorekeeper gives a lot of points per city. (it didn't, there are settlers running around all over the place in the atomic era)

The game was peaceful* until ideologies. Then, with lots of trade routes and luxury swaps and no negative modifiers except different ideology, Dido and Theodora backstabbed me. That's okay, I am the tech leader and have the strongest military. (I just realized, all the AI's are females) Dido was weaker and closer, so I focused on her first. Eventually she was willing to sign a peace treaty. Then Theodora wanted out, but she should have thought of that earlier; I'm going to eliminate her because she's the culture leader.

Wu hasn't recovered from our little war a long time ago (I took her best expo in the peace deal and I burned it down, Great Mosque and all) and is not a threat. I need to keep my eye on Kathy.

--
*I eliminated 2 civs in the ancient era, then one minor dust-up in the early Renaissance where I captured/razed one small city that China forward-settled 4 tiles away from one of my cities for a minor warmonger penalty.

 

[Socratatus]

Fairly minor; AIs seeking a Domination Victory get +2 rating on aggression along with similar minor increases on building units. (And differences in strength of military [according to the Demographics screen / Military advisor which undervalues ranged units] increase AI wars.)

In addition, an AI seeking a Domination Victory when it first founds an ideology isn't allowed to pick Freedom. (There's a similar an AI seeking Diplomatic Victory won't pick Order / AI seeking Space Race Victory won't pick Autocracy)

But high culture flavor AIs still want to build lots of culture buildings even with cultural victory off.

Disabling Time Victory doesn't impact the AI; it doesn't actually seek this type anyway. (It might just look like it due to how much unfocused it is in late game compared to a human seeking a specific type.)

Wow. I had no idea it did this much, but I knew if it did someone here would know. Thankyou.

 

[beetle]

I always disable objective goals in options in my games.

You are basically making it so the AI cannot win. In addition to nerfing their behavior, the only real challenge to Dom VC is getting it done before an AI wins some other way. So by turning off VC that you are not interested in pursing, you make the game much, much easier.

 

[Iamteehee]

You are basically making it so the AI cannot win. In addition to nerfing their behavior, the only real challenge to Dom VC is getting it done before an AI wins some other way. So by turning off VC that you are not interested in pursing, you make the game much, much easier.

I don't see why this is. The AI often tends to focus for the wrong victory type or makes bad choices because it is going for the wrong victory type. For example, AI will never take rationalism or support science funding until they are late in the tech tree because they want a cultural victory before then. Disabling victory types reduces the chances that the AI will make bad decisions due to victory types so it seems to me that it would make the game harder.

 

[beetle]

Some AI do not know how to play if their preferred VC is not available. So they just sit and spin, even more so than usual. Also, if you disable VC, none of the AIs will open certain trees — so the players faces much less competition for several nice World Wonders.

Disabling victory types reduces the chances that the AI will make bad decisions…

Sorry, but there is no logic to this assertion. You might try Acken’s mod if you want AIs that are better at decision making.

For example, AI will never take rationalism or support science funding…

That is poor strategic programming to be sure, but it has nothing to do with the AI being poor at pursing a VC.

…so it seems to me that it would make the game harder.

What makes the game harder is the time element. You have to win your VC before any far-away runaway wins by CV or SV. There is no “wrong” victory type for the AI, which is part of the beauty of the game design.

 

[Socratatus]

You are basically making it so the AI cannot win. In addition to nerfing their behavior, the only real challenge to Dom VC is getting it done before an AI wins some other way. So by turning off VC that you are not interested in pursing, you make the game much, much easier.

I must be pretty crap then as it still manages to beat me just on Warlord.

Still I will take your words under advisement because I`m getting `Fairly minor` from one guy and `the AI can`t win` from you. So far `fairly minor` is proving truer in my case at least.

 

[beetle]

Well, I think you will see the difference (with disabling VC) more on Deity than Warlord.

But how about we help you figure out the game so that anything below Emperor is cake?

 

[Socratatus]

Well, I think you will see the difference (with disabling VC) more on Deity than Warlord.

But how about we help you figure out the game so that anything below Emperor is cake?

This will likely sound weird to many of you, but I like playing it the way I do. I`m not one of those people who have to figure everything out to a mathematical level, then get bored on Diety. I like the challenge of doing it my own way. The brain automatically learns by itself even if I take the long way to do it.

Just for your info I`ve won a couple of games on Warlord, but that was like 2 out of 20 games. No big deal.

 

[beetle]

This will likely sound weird to many of you, but I like playing it the way I do.

NP, lots of people like the sandbox element of the game, and that is easier on lower difficulty level. My usual habit is play for many turns after “the end” even after I win as I like to see if some of the AI are going to have at it. When I loose, I like to be pretty of the tally for how many more turns I needed. And then I discovered that the Dom VC is still available after another VC triggers -- so that can keep me motivated to keep playing too!

That said, your OP, “I don't like having a pop up telling me the AI won a scientific or diplomatic victory, etc. With this off those notifications go away” makes me think you are missing out on some pretty basic elements of the game that the designers put in there for your interest and entertainment.

You are talking about a one-time notification that is dismissed by a single click. And to avoid that minor interruption, you are willing to disable a rather foundational element of the game -- one or more VC.

Jon gives you the bare bones from the XML and a couple of us weigh in that, yes, the AI behavior changes in noticeable and significant ways. Then you conclude by believing what you were hoping to hear, “So far `fairly minor` is proving truer in my case at least” -- even though everyone said the opposite.

I think you are missing out on quite a lot of the available game play. That is fine, it is keeping you entertained, and that is what it is there for. But I think you will enjoy the game the game even more if you play it closer to how the developers expected you to play it -- which is to say, with all the VC enabled, and with you trying to win.

The brain automatically learns by itself even if I take the long way to do it.

Our brains are even better at finding ways to rationalize what we already believe!

 

[mitsuko]

Anyone that has a few games under their belt should never lose on Emperor difficulty and below. The AI in this game is awful, it is borderline nonfunctional. The only AI civs I ever see actually trying to win the game are Greece and maybe a couple others.

 

[joncnunn]

I don't see why this is. The AI often tends to focus for the wrong victory type or makes bad choices because it is going for the wrong victory type. For example, AI will never take rationalism or support science funding until they are late in the tech tree because they want a cultural victory before then. Disabling victory types reduces the chances that the AI will make bad decisions due to victory types so it seems to me that it would make the game harder.

Victory type are fairly minor modifications to the base modifiers of the civ.
Eliminating cultural victory doesn't stop the AIs with high culture flavor from prioritizing culture buildings over science. Basically it cripples AI Brazil among many others.
It has though somewhat decreased time of expected victory for the human and if this is on Immortal/Deity those few AIs that actually have high science flavors.

 

[beetle]

Emphasis added...

Victory type are fairly minor modifications to the base modifiers of the civ ... Basically it cripples AI Brazil among many others.

You are sending mixed messages here. The numerical modifiers are small -- but they are all small. Adjusting a range by 2 on a scale of 10 seems like it would be reasonable to characterize as “fairly minor” (as in most people would say that “20%” is minor) but in actual gameplay, small changes (in the right place) result in remarkably different AI behavior.

Eliminating cultural victory doesn't stop the AIs with high culture flavor from prioritizing culture buildings over science.

I have only played a few games with CV disabled, mostly because the experience is so noticeably disappointing, but it happens with GotM and other shared maps. While AIs with high culture flavors will still prioritize culture buildings over science, in my games none of the AIs opened Aesthetics or Exploration. That alone is a significant effect, and is not accurate to characterize as “fairly minor”. Have other people noticed this AI behavior in games where CV is disabled?

But the biggest effect is removing the threat of AI CV and, accordingly, this allows the player to be much more leisurely about their own VC. From this perspective, every game with CV disabled will have at least one or two AIs that have been crippled.

 

[apocalypse105]

If you dissable all victory conditions the Ai will act like they would if all victory conditions are on by the way.

i played a earth map with no victory conditions and the Ai did their same thing beeing peacefull except warmongers and hate the warmongers and in modern era you have ideology wars

 

[beetle]

If you dissable all victory conditions...

Can’t say that I have tried that!

...the Ai will act like they would if all victory conditions are on by the way.

That makes some sense.

i played a earth map with no victory conditions and the Ai did their same thing being peacefull except warmongers...

Just to be clear, because people try this, turning off everything but Dom VC does not turn the peacenik AIs into warmongers.

Turning off all the VC (or maybe even all but Time VC) makes more sense to me than turning off on or two of them.

 

[apocalypse105]

Can’t say that I have tried that!
That makes some sense.

Just to be clear, because people try this, turning off everything but Dom VC does not turn the peacenik AIs into warmongers.

Turning off all the VC (or maybe even all but Time VC) makes more sense to me than turning off on or two of them.

I turned al victory conditions off even time so that i can play like a roleplay withouth thinxing i have to take cities or else i lose ..

 

[beetle]

I turned al victory conditions off even time so that i can play like a roleplay withouth thinking i have to take cities or else i lose ..

That is perfectly understandable, but that is a very different perspective from what OP asks.

Have other people noticed this AI behavior in games where CV is disabled?

TSG139 (Emperor, from July) had all VC disabled except science. If you read through the Opening and After Actions reports, you will find occasional comment about the peculiar behavior of some of the AIs. The token warmonger still acted like a warmonger. And that game had the usual science-oriented civs, so they were fine. But the four other civs just spun in place. Disabling VC did not help them at all, and they actually became less competitive.

 

[apocalypse105]

That is perfectly understandable, but that is a very different perspective from what OP asks.


TSG139 (Emperor, from July) had all VC disabled except science. If you read through the Opening and After Actions reports, you will find occasional comment about the peculiar behavior of some of the AIs. The token warmonger still acted like a warmonger. And that game had the usual science-oriented civs, so they were fine. But the four other civs just spun in place. Disabling VC did not help them at all, and they actually became less competitive.

Jep i thinx that some Ai dont change i've seen alexander go patronage when there are no city states and no diplomatic victory