Dynamic Civ Names

[AbsintheRed]

Personally I prefer Eyalet (it might be more relevant) but Beylik is relevant too. There was the Beylik of Tunis.
Colony and March sound fine.
Will Governate be used over Guberniya?

Probably, so it's Governorate of Poland, if vassalized to Russia. But actually I don't mind Guberniya either.
Do you think it also sounds good if the civ was a vassal of Kiev or Novgorod?

Btw, I think I dislike the concept of taking religion into account when adding dynamic vassal names after all (apart from a few specific situations)
Spanish Kingdom of Hungary and Spanish Emirate of Hungary doesn't sound too well IMO.
Neither Latin Emirate or stuff like that, especially since the current system doesn't take the religion of the master into account, and arguably that was the dominant.

So for example, Hungary would be something like this:

Vassal of Byzantium, holding Pannonia: Exarchate of Pannonia
Vassal of Byzantium: Exarchate of Sirmium
Vassal of France: Duchy of Hungary
Vassal of Arabia/Cordoba/Morocco: Emirate of Hungary
Vassal of Spain/Aragon: Viceroyalty of Hungary
Vassal of Denmark/Norway/Sweden: Jarldom of Hungary
Vassal of Venice: Colony of Hungary
Vassal of Novgorod/Kiev: Principality of Hungary
Vassal of Russia: Guberniya of Hungary
Vassal of Germany/Prussia: March of Hungary
Vassal of England/Scotland: County of Hungary
Vassal of Austria: Royal Hungary
Vassal of Ottomans, holding Transylvania: Principality of Transylvania
Vassal of Ottomans, holding Pannonia: Eyalet of Budin
Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Hungary
Generic Vassal (all the other civs): Province of Hungary

Under Merchant Republic with Islam: Islamic Republic of Hungary
Under Merchant Republic: Republic of Hungary
Islam State Religion: Sultanate of Hungary
At least 2 unstable provinces: Hungarian Empire
At least 6 ok or unstable provinces: Hungarian Empire
After 1001 AD: Kingdom of Hungary
Have any Christian State Religion: Kingdom of Hungary
Default name (if nothing else is true from the ones above): Principality of Hungary

Is it better this way?
Also, here are the latest French names:

Vassal of Byzantium: Exarchate of Gallia
Vassal of Arabia: Emirate of Frangistan
Vassal of Cordoba/Morocco: Emirate of Arbuna
Vassal of Spain: Viceroyalty of France
Vassal of Aragon: County of Toulouse
Vassal of Denmark/Norway/Sweden: Duchy of Normandy
Vassal of Venice: Colony of France
Vassal of Novgorod/Kiev: Principality of France
Vassal of Russia: Guberniya of France
Vassal of Burgundy/Germany/Prussia: Western Francia
Vassal of England: Duchy of Aquitaine
Vassal of Scotland: County of France
Vassal of Austria: Habsburg France
Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Frangistan
Generic Vassal (all the other civs): Province of France

Burgundy and Germany vassalized under Merchant Republic with Islam: Western Islamic Republic
Under Merchant Republic with Islam: French Islamic Republic
Burgundy and Germany vassalized under Mechant Republic: Western Republic
Burgundy and Germany vassalized with Islam: Western Sultanate
Under Merchant Republic: French Republic
Islam State Religion: Sultanate of France
Burgundy and Germany vassalized: Western Empire

At least 2 unstable provinces after 843 AD: French Empire
At least 6 ok or unstable provinces after 843 AD: French Empire
At least 2 unstable provinces: Frankish Empire
At least 6 ok or unstable provinces: Frankish Empire
After 987 AD: Kingdom of France
After 843 AD: Kingdom of West Francia
Default name (if nothing else is true from the ones above): Kingdom of the Franks

 

[AbsintheRed]

Byzantium:

Vassal of France, holding Constantinople: Duchy of Constantinople
Vassal of France: Frankokratia
Vassal of Arabia/Cordoba/Morocco: Emirate of Rumiyah
Vassal of Spain/Aragon, holding Thessaly province: Duchies of Athens and Neopatria
Vassal of Spain/Aragon: Duchy of Neopatria
Vassal of Denmark/Norway/Sweden, holding Constantinople: Varangian Roman Empire
Vassal of Denmark/Norway/Sweden: Varangian Roman States
Vassal of Venice/Genoa, holding Constantinople, not Islam: Latin Empire
Vassal of Venice, holding Morea province, not Islam: Kingdom of Morea
Vassal of Venice: Venetokratia
Vassal of Novgorod/Kiev, holding Constantinople: Varangian Tsargrad
Vassal of Novgorod/Kiev: Principality of Greece
Vassal of Russia, holding Constantinople: Guberniya of Tsargrad
Vassal of Russia: Greek Governorate
Vassal of Germany/Prussia, holding Constantinople: Eastern Roman Empire
Vassal of Germany/Prussia: Eastern Roman States
Vassal of England/Scotland: Counties of Greece
Vassal of Austria: Habsburg Greek States
Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Rumelia
Generic Vassal, holding Constantinople: Province of Byzantium
Generic Vassal: Province of Greece

Under Merchant Republic with Islam: Islamic Roman Republic
Under Merchant Republic: Second Roman Republic
Islam State Religion: Islamic Byzantine Empire
Holding Constaninople province: Byzantine Empire
Default name (if nothing else is true from the ones above): Eastern Roman States

Bulgaria:

Vassal of Byzantium, holding Moesia: Theme of Paristrion
Vassal of Byzantium: Theme of Bulgaria
Vassal of France: Duchy of Bulgaria
Vassal of Arabia/Cordoba/Morocco: Emirate of Bulgaria
Vassal of Spain/Aragon: Viceroyalty of Bulgaria
Vassal of Denmark/Norway/Sweden: Varangian Bulgaria
Vassal of Venice: Colony of Bulgaria
Vassal of Novgorod/Kiev: Principality of Bulgaria
Vassal of Russia: Guberniya of Bulgaria
Vassal of Germany/Prussia: Bulgarian March
Vassal of England/Scotland: Counties of Bulgaria
Vassal of Austria: Habsburg Bulgaria
Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Silistra
Generic Vassal (all the other civs): Province of Bulgaria

Under Merchant Republic with Islam: Islamic Republic of Bulgaria
Under Merchant Republic: Republic of Bulgaria
Islam State Religion: Sultanate of Bulgaria
Respawned and has 2 unstable provinces: Second Bulgarian Empire
Has 2 unstable provinces after 1050 AD: Second Bulgarian Empire
Has 2 unstable provinces: Bulgarian Empire
Orthodox State Religion: Bulgarian Tsardom
Catholic/Protestant State Religion: Bulgarian Kingdom
Default name (if nothing else is true from the ones above): Bulgarian Khanate

 

[Baron03]

They sound better without the religion in the name. Governate sounds fine for Kiev and Novgorod, but I think the generic Principality fits them equally well.

 

[ales_]

I prefer Guberniya for lack of a better solution. It's definitely better than Governorate for Muscovy.

 

[DC123456789]

United Kingdom of France sounds a bit weird for France as vassal of England. I understand where it's coming from (Hundred Years' War I presume?), but it doesn't really sound like a vassal name at all (probably more of the opposite). If you want to keep the kingdom name maybe something like "Vassal Kingdom of France" (okay that's a bad name) or maybe follow DoC's lead and have something like Duchy of Anjou or Duchy of Aquitaine?

 

[AbsintheRed]

Guberniya and Duchy of Aquitaine it is. I also didn't like the name United Kingdom of France, and we already have Duchy of Normandy for the Scandinavian civs, so it fits better.
Guberniya sounds more fun, and we can (should?) have some cool sounding names here, especially as most of them appear rarely.

 

[SanJose]

Kiev/Novgorod/Muscovy
"Land" ("Земля") or "Region"("Край") looks better than "Gubernia"
"Khanate" or "Khaganate" for turk/islam state

 

[DC123456789]

"Caliphate of Bulgaria" seems a bit weird for Bulgaria's Muslim names - all of the other normally Christian civs have "Sultanate of X" instead. Would "Sultanate of Bulgaria" make more sense?
Also, since it was one of the civs that was actually ruled as part of a theme and tends to be quite small maybe that could be used for Bulgaria's name as vassal of Byzantium:
Vassal of Byzantium, controls Macedonia: Theme of Bulgaria
Vassal of Byzantium: Theme of Paristrion
(or perhaps the other way around, Paristrion if they control Moesia and Bulgaria if they don't)

Also, some suggestions for Byzantium:
Vassal of France: Frankokratia
Vassal of Arabia/Cordoba/Morocco: Emirate of Rumiyah (or something similar)
Vassal of Germany/Prussia, holding Constantinople: Greek Empire/Empire of the Greeks
Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Rumelia (in this case Bulgaria as vassal of Ottomans could be Eyalet of Silistra)

 

[DC123456789]

Also, for France as vassal of Aragon: County of Toulouse.

 

[LAF1994]

Some recommendations for the naming of Cordoba (if Monarchy):
-Before 929: Emirate of Cordoba
-Between 929 and 1238: Caliphate of Cordoba
-After 1238 and vassal/do not own Cordoba: Emirate of Granada
-After 1238 otherwise: Sultanate of Al-Andalus
-If Christian and not vassal: Kingdom of Andalusia
Also, the Spain civ should be called Kingdom of Leon or Castile-Leon depending on which provinces it owns if it does not control Aragon.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Kiev/Novgorod/Muscovy
"Land" ("Земля") or "Region"("Край") looks better than "Gubernia"
"Khanate" or "Khaganate" for turk/islam state

I'm not sure, Land and Region sounds too generic.
Khanate/Khaganate might work for Turkic vassals, maybe for Bulgaria as well?
At least up until a specific date.

"Caliphate of Bulgaria" seems a bit weird for Bulgaria's Muslim names - all of the other normally Christian civs have "Sultanate of X" instead. Would "Sultanate of Bulgaria" make more sense?
Also, since it was one of the civs that was actually ruled as part of a theme and tends to be quite small maybe that could be used for Bulgaria's name as vassal of Byzantium:
Vassal of Byzantium, controls Macedonia: Theme of Bulgaria
Vassal of Byzantium: Theme of Paristrion
(or perhaps the other way around, Paristrion if they control Moesia and Bulgaria if they don't)

Also, some suggestions for Byzantium:
Vassal of France: Frankokratia
Vassal of Arabia/Cordoba/Morocco: Emirate of Rumiyah (or something similar)
Vassal of Germany/Prussia, holding Constantinople: Greek Empire/Empire of the Greeks
Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Rumelia (in this case Bulgaria as vassal of Ottomans could be Eyalet of Silistra)

Also, for France as vassal of Aragon: County of Toulouse.

I like most of these
Frankokratia sounds strange, but it's not necessarily a bad thing

EDIT: What's the difference between Frankokratia and Latinokratia? Wouldn't that be a better (less confusing) name?
Venetokratia should also be used in some cases? Instead of Colony of Greece for example

 

[AbsintheRed]

Some recommendations for the naming of Cordoba (if Monarchy):
-Before 929: Emirate of Cordoba
-Between 929 and 1238: Caliphate of Cordoba
-After 1238 and vassal/do not own Cordoba: Emirate of Granada
-After 1238 otherwise: Sultanate of Al-Andalus
-If Christian and not vassal: Kingdom of Andalusia
Also, the Spain civ should be called Kingdom of Leon or Castile-Leon depending on which provinces it owns if it does not control Aragon.

Sounds good
Alright, DCN names for the Iberian civs + Morocco will be the next batch

 

[DC123456789]

EDIT: What's the difference between Frankokratia and Latinokratia? Wouldn't that be a better (less confusing) name?
Venetokratia should also be used in some cases? Instead of Colony of Greece for example

They'd be the same thing, I guess, but I thought Frankokratia would sound better since it refers specifically to the Franks (i.e. French), kind of like how Frangistan does.

Yeah, Venetokratia instead of the generic Colony of Greece sounds better.

 

[SanJose]

"Land" in the sense of "Principality" is used in the chronicles, for example Primary Chronicle(The Tale of Bygone Years).

"Guberniya" is the innovation of Peter the Great, it means the "province". Hint in "Guberniya" of even a partial independence of the minimum, it seems to me.

I can create a table for the Kiev/Novgorod/Muscovy considering the historical facts.

 

[PinkPallin]

Yeah, Venetokratia instead of the generic Colony of Greece sounds better.

Sounds quite odd to me.
Venice ruled the Duchy of Dalmatia and the Duchy of Candia (Crete), so I guess that Duchy of Costantinople, of Bosphorus or Thrace would fit better.

 

[AbsintheRed]

They'd be the same thing, I guess, but I thought Frankokratia would sound better since it refers specifically to the Franks (i.e. French), kind of like how Frangistan does.

Yeah, Venetokratia instead of the generic Colony of Greece sounds better.

I only meant that Frangistan, and all Frank/French names are tied to France.
Same with other civs.
This way it would be the other way around, so Byzantium would have a name which includes "Frank" in it.
Same with Venetokratia.
Not necessary a bad thing, as colour still dominates when you look at the scoreboard, just wanted to point it out.

"Land" in the sense of "Principality" is used in the chronicles, for example Primary Chronicle(The Tale of Bygone Years).

"Guberniya" is the innovation of Peter the Great, it means the "province". Hint in "Guberniya" of even a partial independence of the minimum, it seems to me.

I can create a table for the Kiev/Novgorod/Muscovy considering the historical facts.

Sure, I would like to check your suggestions.
Vassals do have some level of independence though, and as I said I would like to avoid very generic sounding names for non-generic vassals.

Sounds quite odd to me.
Venice ruled the Duchy of Dalmatia and the Duchy of Candia (Crete), so I guess that Duchy of Costantinople, of Bosphorus or Thrace would fit better.

If Constantinople is part of Byzantium, while it's master is Venice, the DCN is Latin Empire currently.
If it doesn't own Constantinople, but owns Morea province, than the name is Kingdom of Morea.
So these are not for common situations, but Venetokratia and Frankokratia do sound odd though, I agree

 

[DC123456789]

I only meant that Frangistan, and all Frank/French names are tied to France.
Same with other civs.
This way it would be the other way around, so Byzantium would have a name which includes "Frank" in it.
Same with Venetokratia.
Not necessary a bad thing, as colour still dominates when you look at the scoreboard, just wanted to point it out.

Well, I suppose if you put it that way. There are already a number of names that have the master's name in it though, like Spanish X or Norse X, which is basically the same thing. But it's your choice.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Well, I suppose if you put it that way. There are already a number of names that have the master's name in it though, like Spanish X or Norse X, which is basically the same thing. But it's your choice.

Yeah, I'm moving away from that concept
None of the 4 civs above has Spanish Kingdom/Sultanate of xyz or similar in their new DCNs.
A couple has Varangian or Norse in the name though, which is a close call, so I guess you are right to some extent.
Anyway, haven't made up my mind on Venetokratia and Frankokratia, their uniqueness is kinda tempting
It will be whatever the players decide. I know it's not important at all, but do you want to put up a poll about it, for fun?

EDIT: Paradox-style forum would be quite useful in some modding scenarios
You could easily vote by clicking on agree/disagree on the post

 

[DC123456789]

You can put one up - it'd seem more official that way.

 

[PinkPallin]

In my mind the point is that no state would frankly admit it's a vassal state. No Spanish Netherlands, but Seventeen Provinces (or were they just seven?).