Dynasty Game III "Immortal Kingdom"

[Cam_H]

Thanks for the turnset.

I can't see the game right now (away from Civ computer) but bummer about Copper. Aside from negating an Axe rush strategy, it'll make a Horse Archer rush tougher if we wanted to go down that path, assuming that we at least have Horses.

I'd not Farm the Floodplain, but chop something else instead ... the Floodplain will get a Cottage eventually and I'd rather get stuff out sooner with the chops.

I assume you have swapped into Slavery?

I imagine that we'll need another Warrior to chaperon the next Settler and/or fortify the capital so that we don't exacerbate the unhappy faces from whip weariness with the 'we fear for our safety' modifier (if that makes sense). We'll grow our capital with Work Boats and Warriors, and then whip out the Workers/Settlers I guess.

As I recall the map, a lot of the good spots have resources on the outer ring, so Mysticism might also have some appeal soon-ish. I lean to Animal Husbandry as the next technology, but I'm very open to alternative suggestions.

Sorry - as per above, can't see the game but will access it in half-a-day.


... and later ...

[Edit]

OK, finish the Worker in one turn and then swap into Slavery.

I'm not sure why we have 30 invested in a Settler while we're currently building a Worker.

My view's generally the same:

I am open to good reasoning as to why we should pursue 'such-and-such' a pathway in terms of Worker management, technology pursuits, etc. however ...

I would use Workers for chopping, not mining, and get our out of Slavery and chops in general preference to Mines. There might be times when working Mines is the best pathway from a micro perspective, but by-and-large I'd prefer to whip or chop.

I believe that we need a strategic resource ... being either Horses or Iron. I'm a big big fan of Pottery, but we're running a risk of being badly hemmed in if we don't break out with an early-game battle. I'm willing to go with the majority view, but I'd seriously consider Animal Husbandry with the hope of Horses at this point. It's no 'lock' in terms of coming out with a good result if we attempt to rush, but we've got not a lot of 'wiggle' at this stage I think, and a rush looks increasingly like the best option. With that said, for all we know Kublai might have no more room than ourselves to expand into, so we might not be in such a bad state after all (?). ​

We're 31 turns in. Wait for 'obsolete' or go back to Lord_C?

[/Edit]

 

[Lord Civius]

I'll take the got it, if obsolete pops up we can put him back in the rotation.

I am also in favor of whip/chop, be it for an early HR rush or REX. Problem is if Khan is in the same boat as us he will begin expanding towards us. So I think we are in agreeance he should be dealt with. Give me a few to look over the save and I will post the PPP. Hopefully I will have it up in the next hour or two.

 

[Lord Civius]

Khan settling for copper really doesn't tell us much. Even if he has room to expand north he would have grabbed the copper. I think though we have to assume he has no room north. So lets pray for horses and get a settler ready as soon as possible to hook it up.

PPP
Finish Worker, start warrior
adopt slavery next turn
prechop forests
chop settler after 2 warriors
Found City #2 after AH is completed. Hopefully there are horses. I will settle as far away as we have to if needed.
research AH-->Wheel

That is the basic plan, leaving room to micromanage.

 

[Cam_H]

Thumbs up!

I'm happy if you wanted to spend some effort on Work Boats too while we grow ... depends on the timing of things. I'll leave that to you.

 

[Revent]

Green from me.

 

[Lord Civius]

After crunching the numbers I decided to let the first worker finish the mine, the hammers will come in handy building our second warrior while growing to happy cap. WB will have to wait if we want to get our second city up and running ASAP.
turn 31- changed to AH 11 turns (not actual as we will be using clam commerce after mine and population grows to 4)
turn 32- 2nd worker completed and sent to prechop, city producing warrior in 1 turn (from overflow)
turn 33- Warrior Completed, begin 2nd warrior in 15 turns (not actual will use mine to produce while prechopping for settler)
turn 35- city grows to 4, mine completed. working 2 corn, mine and clam (see screenie).
Turn 36- 1st worker sent to prechop.
Turn 39- city grows to 5, finished warrior, settler is up in the build queue 7 turns, started chopping so he will be done in 2 turns. AH next turn, warrior and scout heading NW ahead of settler.
Turn 40- Finished AH, Horses are close but there is a barb archer in our way (see screenie) so I figured this is a good time to stop and discuss our strategy. Settler is due next turn.

I decided not to adopt Slavery as chopping was the quickest way to get the 2 warriors and a settler. Figured after my settler was a good time to adopt slavery, grow and build WBs. Then ready to start whipping.

EDIT: Also put wheel as place holder, might think about archery to deal with barbs.

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks for the turnset Lord_Civius.

I'm not professing to be an expert dot-mapper, but to 'get the ball rolling' in terms of discussing some of our options;



I think that "L" could be our first spot, in that it doesn't require a border pop to access the Horses, while there's still good food haul.

"M" isn't too dazzling, but it's close to home and can contribute something courtesy of the Grassland Cows.

The big fat cross of "N" picks up five resources (three of which being food resources, plus two Floodplains).

"O" can share some tiles with Yasodharapura including its northern Corn, and when the border pops it gets the Stone. Like "M", not a superb city, but maybe sufficient given our limited room.

The peninsula to Yasodharapura's south east is settle-able too, but I'd prefer to take spots closer to our rival first.

I am more than open to alternative schemes.

'Yes' - we should swap into Slavery once our Settler's done.

I am inclined to go with Archery > The Wheel > Horseback Riding, but leaving Writing unresearched for so long admittedly makes me a bit 'uncomfortable'.

Views?

 

[Lord Civius]

Thanks for the letter-map Cam. Honestly I am not computer savvy enough to do dotmaps so I will just comment on yours . L Seems the most logical choice no sense in grabbing Myst for monuments with more pressing techs. We can also settle the N city later, it will still be a good city even though it will have to share food. 1 North of M (wine and cows) and O are also good settle options doen the road.

I think it is a good idea to grab Archery before Wheel and also might be a good idea to grab Pottery before HBR, its an expensive tech. We could use granary (for whipping) and cottages.

 

[Revent]

Agree with the decision to not adopt slavery.
As for Archery, I don't think we need it. L can be our first city and it has inner ring food and horses. It can build a workboat whilst the worker improves a pasture. Or even better, home can whip a workboat so the second city grows like as soon as it is built.

 

[Cam_H]

Probably just as easy to do a turnset summary than a turn-by-turn.

We did finish the Settler and then swap into Slavery, and 'leveraged' our new civic, twice , so I'm handing the game over with three turns of whip weariness from the first whip and then ten from the second. Given the amount of food we have, and that we're not working Cottages, it's hopefully OK by the roster.

We had to play some 'dodge-ball' with that Barbarian Archer, slowing us down before getting to found our second city; Hariharalaya, being; "L". There's a Worker on the Horses who's not far off finishing the Pasture, and then he can move straight onto building a road for Chariot production. I opted to go with a Warrior build there, as there's good opportunity to grow population, while there are Barbarians to our west (at least two) so another unit for garrison might 'save our bacon' if need be.

Finished The Wheel, and turned off for Pottery. I wasn't 100% certain whether Pottery or Archery was the preferred pathway, so collected instead.

In terms of builds, we've now got the two seafood resources covered with Work Boats, a third Work Boat has been queued for Hariharalaya, but I can see going for a Worker there as a fair alternative. I got out another Settler, who's still in Yasodharapura's BFC, and another Warrior, who's on the fringe of Hariharalaya.

The Scout lives, but there's a Barbarian Archer near the Stone (sign included on the map for the benefit of Revent - delete the sign when you want).

We have Open Borders with Kublai Khan, and it increasingly seems that our concerns that we're 'alone together' have been confirmed.

Screenshots:

Spoiler :

Agree to open borders;



Founded our Horse city;



End of turnset empire and technology tree;

 

[Revent]

Workboat being built goes to city 2.
Tech: Pottery->Writing
Home: Workboat->Settler
City 2:Warrior (???)->Chariot->Chariot->Worker
Green? Anything I'm missing?

 

[Cam_H]

My main worry is that we're taking so long to get to an attacking unit, and wondering if we mightn't just hold off until Construction (Catapults) if we're not going to bee-line Horseback Archers.

I wouldn't mind knowing where you'll put the Settler(s).

Re. Warrior build: Hariharalaya had a limited number of build options once founded. I opted to grow the city rather than going with a Worker or Settler build at 'size 1', which left; a Work Boat (quicker to produce in the capital), Barracks (fairly expensive), or a Warrior (the option I took given the two Barbarian Archers on its doorstep, and can later be used for spawnbusting or cheap city garrisons).

 

[Revent]

The issue is that if we are indeed semi-isolated, it will hinder us a lot and taking out Kublai with Cats may not be wise! Getting him to friendly will give us some trading which would be great!

Warrior build seems fair then

As for the settler, I was thinking either somewhere on the east or 1N4W of city 2.

 

[Cam_H]

In terms of Kubai Khan of Spain, it's the opposite of what I was thinking - but that strategy is fine with me if that's the way we choose to go!

A few options that we might consider therefore, provided that we do go down this path, are 'economic-type' Wonders such as The Colossus and The Great Lighthouse, and founding a religion and infecting Spain with it with a view to Shrine income.

'Yes' - I like that multi-resource spot too. There's at least two Barbarian Archers lurking around there, so we may need to wait for our first Chariot. I'm not sure if it's a prospective Farm or a production hub.

 

[Lord Civius]

1N4W of city 2 is the exact same city location I was thinking for next. Looks like a good hybrid city that we can use for early unit or wonder production.Sorry I havent been too active lately but working lots of evertime. RL should quiet down soon though. PPP looks good to me.

 

[Revent]

I did consider GLH but I think on Imm, it goes sooner rather than later and I think we missed the chance. Playing now.

 

[Revent]

I've had some bad luck and stopped next to barb archers twice so I ended up losing us our scout and a warrior.

However, city 3 has been founded. At the moment, it is sucky, but in time, it will be a great city! It's such a shame though. We have stone and the map is food rich yet building the 'Mids would be a waste

It looks like we are indeed semi isolated. Kublai has Alpha already. His capital BFC has double gems so his research is amazing as well Madrid looks to be a great Bur capital

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks for the turnset Revent. Good work on the recon'.

Looks like Kublai got a better hand dealt to him than we did - double Gems, 'Yay!' .

In terms of our ongoing expansion, the Settler could try to pinch Rice-Wine-Silk between Angkor Thom and Barcelona, although obviously it'll be competing with other cities for many of the good tiles. Somewhere near the Stone is another possibility. There are some 'so-so' potential filler cities here-and-there, so getting to around eight (without war) is possible. It'd be good to keep expanding along the coast, but maintenance would start to hurt, and a long border would leave us very vulnerable should we fail to get him up to Friendly.

It's that time of the game where we 'need more of everything'! More Settlers, more Workers, more units, more city improvements. It's not my turn to do a PPP, but I'd think about Hariharalaya switching to a Worker given it has just got those two improved tiles. Yasodharapura would benefit from population growth, but we're that close to Writing, I'd consider just maxing food growth there (which also means not working the Cottage for a couple of turns, which is a shame), dropping the tech' rate down to 10% so we have a full population to begin working on the Library when Writing does come in. Lots of compelling tech' choices from there!

 

[Lord Civius]

Got it. Good turnset Revent, sucks Khan got the Gems and Copper but we got lots of food, the horses and hopefully iron. I wouldn't usually favor IW here but I think we need to try and make sure we get some metal or we will be in real trouble. I suggest we get a library up ASAP in the Capital then slam out another settler (working food + cottages) to grab the Iron city before Khan. He will be pumping another settler out soon and may well be researching IW. After the settler we can work on our GS.

In the mean time we can work on getting our land improved, including some more cottages and libraries for research. I think city 3 can skip library for now, we can improve it for unit production for once we have iron. It has plenty of hammers without culture popping.

We also need to start thinking about getting to Monarchy, unless we decide to skip HR? Any other thoughts in research, or anything else?

 

[Cam_H]

I am good with the idea of Iron Working. It's not something I'd normally do either, but our semi-isolated predicament means that we have no gauge on Kublai Khan's WHEOOHRN status and we should take measures to defend ourselves. Chariots are good enough for Barbarian control, but not really for a surprise Spanish stack attack. Iron's obviously a handy resource to have from a tile yielding perspective, and it's a prerequisite for Optics anyway.

You'll presumably 'run binary' while you're building the Library in Yasodharapura. You might want to finish the build off with a whip with the overflow into a Settler for a turn, then swap and regrow with a Work Boat for Angkor Thom or a Granary at maximum food before switching back to complete the Settler when we hit the happy cap.

I'd prefer it if we confirmed our policy on Spain. Do we work toward getting him to Friendly, or do we work toward beating him up? I think that it'll have a bearing on whether we focus on peaceful development or war preparations. 'Walking the fine line' could possibly put us in 'no man's land'.