Early landing strategy

-Tomasz- · Oct 25, 2006

I have already read a couple of articles about early landings and tried it on my own. My best game was a AD1640 landing, with three cities, playing as the English on a world map (chieftain IIRC in order to have the most turns possible).

I had a SSC (London) and I was discovering at a rate of 2 techs per turn. I made numerous trade routes (3 per city, a total of 9) and added new ones everytime there was an occasion to do so. I tried to trade a lot with north america and some of the routes gave me over 1000gold.

How can I improve my gameplay to achieve earlier landings? Are there any technologies that you just never discover?

Tomasz

civdood · Oct 25, 2006

i think peaster man have good instrucions to do landing on planet soon. look to stars by post to see it quickly.

ElephantU · Oct 25, 2006

You've read Solo's Early Landing Guide, I presume? How much trade did you have in your SSC? Why only 3 cities? Did you keep a log of discoveries and events? Can you make a screenshot of your SSC? Did it have 4 high-trade specials in the city radius?

-Tomasz- · Oct 25, 2006

Wow, wait, that game was a couple of months ago, and no, I do not have any info about it. I do not remember how much trade I had, however, I had around 700 beacons.

I had three cities, all on the British Isles.

I believe that what I read was Solo's Early Landing Guide (I'll check that).

I'll play a new game now, I'll try to have all the necessary information next time.

Tomasz

EDIT: Should I play MGE or Vanilla? Which is preferable for early landings?
EDIT2: I can't seem to find the Solo's Article. Perhaps you could provide a link?

-Tomasz- · Oct 25, 2006

I played one game of civ2 vanilla tonight right untill 1AD. It is not extra-ordinary, I barely got industrilization before AD. Below you will find a log, I tried to be as detailled as possible. I also attached a screen of my SSC.

I simply beelined to republic first, tried to get Copernicus' and Newton's as fast as possible, and then I thought I could discover other ancient techs, like warrion code. I used all the cities for the construction of the WoW.

Spoiler :

What do you think guys?

Tomasz

Peaster · Oct 25, 2006

civdood said:
i think peaster man have good instrucions to do landing on planet soon. look to stars by post to see it quickly.

I am more of an early conquest player than an early lander. I've played for early landing only once, and finished in approx AD600, which is hardly a Civ2 record, but it's not bad. Maybe it authorizes me to give free advice? Well, I consulted solo's ELG [you can find it in the GL at Apolyton] for that game, and it is the best guide. But IMO you can skip the hard stuff in it, mostly about trade, until you master the basics. Also, I'd suggest making about 30 cities - To me, lots of cities means better economy, faster science, faster production.

Tomasz: If you were getting 2 techs per turn very often, you were going thru the tech tree about twice as fast as I did! Why did it take you until 1640AD to land? Thirty cities can rush-buy vans quickly, to make Apollo and all the ship parts pretty soon after Space Flight. So, in my game, the launch date depended mostly on getting thru the tech tree. I guess van production takes longer with just 3 cities.. was that the delay ?

Also, with 30 cities, the AI can't bother you much! :goodjob:

Magic_gorter · Oct 26, 2006

Tomasz,

I play most of the times early landing. My first advice is the same as peaster. Build cities. In Solo's document he explaines that he builds 24 cities (for an 15-3-3-1-1-1 spaceship). That amount is the minimum. I build myself more cities because the trade is very important for maximazing discovery and economics.

I play at the moment a chieftain game (attempt for hof-score). I launched my ship at 1 AD. This could earlier (60 BC) if I could build the spaceship parts before 1AD (they apear not before 1 AD). Launching early and playing HOF-game is a new thing I'm trying out. I hope that the CIV-AI capture my capital to get extra turns (at 1 AD there are 370 turns left, but with this trick I get 2020 turns).

An other tip is to go for monarchy instead early republic. At the low levels I think it is important to discover trade and map making after monarchy and then republic asap (and change into it). Monarchy is earlier to discover then republic and you're settler cost only 1 food instead of 2 food and 1 shield. With small cities it's easier to maintain settlers for irrigation and roads.

Build also asap ships for an shipchain. This way you can deliver caravans/freights in 1 turn far away on other islands.

If you're interested I can set my log of this game on this forum.

-Tomasz- · Oct 26, 2006

Peaster said:
Tomasz: If you were getting 2 techs per turn very often, you were going thru the tech tree about twice as fast as I did! Why did it take you until 1640AD to land? Thirty cities can rush-buy vans quickly, to make Apollo and all the ship parts pretty soon after Space Flight. So, in my game, the launch date depended mostly on getting thru the tech tree. I guess van production takes longer with just 3 cities.. was that the delay ?

Also, with 30 cities, the AI can't bother you much!

Well, had 2 techs per turn in the late game so to speak, after 500AD. I reached space flight technology in 1300s but since I only had 3 cities (which by the way had a lot of shields) it took me a while to build the smallest spaceship possible. Won't the expansion for 30 cities slow down my reasearch, since I will build more settlers than libraries and I won't be able to concentrate on tile developpement in the beginning?

Magic_gorter said:
Tomasz,

I play most of the times early landing. My first advice is the same as peaster. Build cities. In Solo's document he explaines that he builds 24 cities (for an 15-3-3-1-1-1 spaceship). That amount is the minimum. I build myself more cities because the trade is very important for maximazing discovery and economics.

I play at the moment a chieftain game (attempt for hof-score). I launched my ship at 1 AD. This could earlier (60 BC) if I could build the spaceship parts before 1AD (they apear not before 1 AD). Launching early and playing HOF-game is a new thing I'm trying out. I hope that the CIV-AI capture my capital to get extra turns (at 1 AD there are 370 turns left, but with this trick I get 2020 turns).

An other tip is to go for monarchy instead early republic. At the low levels I think it is important to discover trade and map making after monarchy and then republic asap (and change into it). Monarchy is earlier to discover then republic and you're settler cost only 1 food instead of 2 food and 1 shield. With small cities it's easier to maintain settlers for irrigation and roads.

Build also asap ships for an shipchain. This way you can deliver caravans/freights in 1 turn far away on other islands.

If you're interested I can set my log of this game on this forum.

You launched your ship in 1AD!!!??? So in fact you were building wonders in every city, and then switched to space componenets in one turn? However since they appear in 1AD, how could you launch it on the same turn? Does it have to do with "skipping through the city window at the beginning of turn" exploit?

Yes, I read IMBC2's thread about Sabotaging your own spaceship. In fact, that's what I was hoping for too; to get extra turns

. Anyway I still have to work on my ELS.

Yes, I would appreciate if you posted a log of your game here, if it doesn't bother you. What are the settings for your game? What kind of map? How many civs?

Still a few questions:
What are certain milestones for early landing? For example when should one change into a republic? What are the conditions for doing so.
What are the techs that you can avoid when going for space techs?
How can you maximise trade in the SSC? Does it have to do with the number of cities in your civ?

Tomasz

Peaster · Oct 26, 2006

-Tomasz- said:
Won't the expansion for 30 cities slow down my reasearch, since I will build more settlers than libraries and I won't be able to concentrate on tile developpement in the beginning?

Nope. You'll find that 30 cities even without libraries will usually make more beakers than 3 cities filled with wonders and libraries, etc. The way I see it, your main goal in early landing is to research about 80 techs ASAP. That's a total of about 80,000 beakers (just a wild guess). You are not going to get many of those 80,000 beakers in the early game. The early game is for growth (enough cities, starting up your SSC, ship chains for trade, etc).

After about 100 turns of preparation, you should be aiming for a tech every 2 turns, or so, and 1 tech per turn by the end. That should allow you to finish by about 1000AD (depending on level). In my game, the 80,000 beakers came from

Trade - about 50%
SSC - about 25%
Other cities - about 25%

Of course, trade is easier when you have more cities - for more boats and vans.

I am also impressed by Magic Gorter's 1AD launch. That would only be 100 turns at Deity level, but I guess it is more at chieftain.

Magic_gorter · Oct 26, 2006

I am also impressed by Magic Gorter's 1AD launch. That would only be 100 turns at Deity level, but I guess it is more at chieftain.

At chieftain it is 200 turns. Playing at higher levels at turn 200 is around 1000 AD. While playing higher levels I can most of the times launch my ship (Diety not jet) before 1000 AD. The problem with chieftain is the slow research of the AI-civs. So you must research almost all tech alone. This game I tried a mix of power democracy and early landing tactics. This means a low science rating (0-30%). If I had set this higher (100%). I probably could achieve spaceship around 1000-500 BC. By playing this style I hoped to get an early landing and I lot of trade. With the extra money it was easy to build aquaducts, offshore...etc.

The next thing I hope (I'm still at 1 AD) that the other civ's capture my capital (which will come close to the Chinese). If they get my capital I'll try to get big cities with the FCT (not rehoming but food from A->B and the other way). I don't know if there is a max number of citizens in 1 town, but when all 255 cities are ready I go for this "trick". If I'm correct I get 1 point for an Elvis. And if I can get cities with let's say 500 Elvis I can get a huge score....and perhaps an HOF-score.

Magic_gorter · Oct 26, 2006

-Tomasz- said:
Well, had 2 techs per turn in the late game so to speak, after 500AD. I reached space flight technology in 1300s but since I only had 3 cities (which by the way had a lot of shields) it took me a while to build the smallest spaceship possible. Won't the expansion for 30 cities slow down my reasearch, since I will build more settlers than libraries and I won't be able to concentrate on tile developpement in the beginning?

It's true what Peaster mentioned. In the beginning it might cost a few beakers, but soon you're catching up with more cities and then you're get those techs more easy. If every city has trade routes it gives you more beakers. And more delivered trade is also more beakers (enough to fill the bar for 1 discovery)

You launched your ship in 1AD!!!??? So in fact you were building wonders in every city, and then switched to space componenets in one turn? However since they appear in 1AD, how could you launch it on the same turn? Does it have to do with "skipping through the city window at the beginning of turn" exploit?

Yes I build in 20 cities wonders before 1 AD. I had also a settler, ship, freight stationed in a city which will open up before the city where the wonder is build. With the zoom to homecity option you can buy the spaceship parts before the buildingturn is over. The computer starts with the newest cities and ends with you're first city (the city you build first). In city #21 I had a settler from city #20 and 1 turn before 1AD I rushbuild something (freight,etc.). This way I can start buying the parts "before" 1 AD.

Yes, I read IMBC2's thread about Sabotaging your own spaceship. In fact, that's what I was hoping for too; to get extra turns . Anyway I still have to work on my ELS.

Keep practising. A few months ago I had trouble landing before 1500 AD. The trade part is very important for quick research...but is also the hardest part.

Yes, I would appreciate if you posted a log of your game here, if it doesn't bother you. What are the settings for your game? What kind of map? How many civs?

If I have time this weekend I post my log till 1 AD. I played a custom map, large, large landmass,varied land form, normal climate, temperate temperature. All 7 civ's. The purple is very important for EL.

Still a few questions:
What are certain milestones for early landing? For example when should one change into a republic? What are the conditions for doing so.
QUOTE]

Changing to Republic depends on level. At deity it is better to wait longer. At chieftain I changed to Republic in 2340 BC (discovered it in 2500 BC).

What are the techs that you can avoid when going for space techs?
How can you maximise trade in the SSC? Does it have to do with the number of cities in your civ?

Click to expand...

Discovering horseriding and warroir code can wait for a long time (if playing at higher levels). There are more, mayby I make a list for those techs. Max trade in SSC...do you mean the extra arrows from the trade routes?? or just the total trade arrows?

Peaster · Oct 26, 2006

Magic_gorter said:
I don't know if there is a max number of citizens in 1 town, but when all 255 cities are ready I go for this "trick". If I'm correct I get 1 point for an Elvis. And if I can get cities with let's say 500 Elvis I can get a huge score....and perhaps an HOF-score.

I don't know if there is a max either. In another thread, people spoke of cities with over 60 citizens (maybe even 120 IIRC) but nothing like 500. I think you are correct about the Elvis.

I just finished my first high-score game - my first 255 city game. I was planning to make a lot of food vans too, but I ran out of patience [also, this was a GOTM game, and I thought it might have some chance at Gold, which requires a reasonably quick finish]. Anyway, you can add one Elvis for every 2 food vans, which should take you maybe 10-15 seconds. Let's say 5 Elvis's a minute; 300 per hour. So, if you want 3000 Elvis points, it should take you about 10 additional hours (assuming you don't have to spend time on pollution, economy, etc). IMO that sounds tedious, but I think you could get a HOF game that way, and you probably wouldn't need extra turns. Especially if you were rush-buying most of the vans.

-Tomasz- · Oct 26, 2006

Well I meant the total of trade arrows in the SSC, I guess that the trade routes arrows depend from that. No?

The only problem that I find with having, say, 30 cities, is that in the beginning of the game, up to 1AD most of them are small, and unporductive. If that is the case in your game, do you buy caravans? Or do the cities produce them by themselves? When can a city start producing caravans? After building library and uni? What other buildings are necessary for those 29supplementary cities? How big should they be?

Concerning trade: should all trade routes be across the sea? Or can I make trade routes inside my empire? I know that the revenue will be smaller, but nevertheless, it takes a considerable amount of time to get the caravans to across an ocean. I haven't tried ship chains yet, although I understand the principle. Since many cities will have ships in the sea, I cannot have a democracy, right?

Why is it good to be purple?

Concerning my log, is there anything I shouldn't do, except staying with 3 cities and not doing trade outside of my country?

Tomasz

Magic_gorter · Oct 26, 2006

The amount of trade arrows depends on the available trade arrows on which you're workers are. This means that more citizens means more trade. Buildings like Marketplace, Bank, Super Highway etc. improve the amount of arrows. Colossus gives also extra trade arrows. Building roads and railroad are also good for the trade arrows. The amount of trade arrows by trade routes is not clear to me. I think it depands on city size.

If I have the money I rushbuy caravans, settlers and ships. Getting in Republic and increase luxury % makes the we love the ..... Cities size 3 will grow if they got 1 food surplus. My cities build caravans after the discovery of Trade (not all cities). The cities should be as big as possible. At lower levels is this easy.
In the beginning it is good to have trade routes inside you're empire, but get them to other islands and if possible to the AI civ's
In Republic I have 1 ship in every city. After the discovery of magnetism and building Leonardo's you're ships change. They no longer cause angry citizens.

The purple civ is needed for tech gifting. Giving them you're techs means that the amount of research beakers is lowered....and you get a discovery earlier.

Concerning my log, is there anything I shouldn't do, except staying with 3 cities and not doing trade outside of my country?

If I have more time I look at it more carefully. If you like the idea we can also play a game together by mail. This way you can learn very quickly the basics for EL.

Ali Ardavan · Oct 26, 2006

-Tomasz- said:
Why is it good to be purple?

In a typical early landing game (yours with only 3 cities is not typical) the human player reaches supreme quickly and stays there for the rest of the game. Purple is the key civ for supreme. If you are supreme you do not have to bother with tech gifting to keep your research cost low.

-Tomasz- · Oct 26, 2006

I don't think I really understand the tech gifting idea that you mentioned. And yes, I think it would be cool if we could play a game via mail. I'll send you a PM concerning this.

Tomasz

EDIT: I read Solo's text about key civs, seems clear now.

Ali Ardavan · Oct 26, 2006

Tomasz,
The concept of key civ (and the associated tech gifting) is essential for early landing players. You need to search for that on the forums and read about it.

Ace · Oct 26, 2006

The max number of citizens per city was determined, years ago, to be 127, and the only way to reach that number is to use the FCT.

Carrot · Oct 26, 2006

-Tomasz- said:
EDIT2: I can't seem to find the Solo's Article. Perhaps you could provide a link?

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82209

Magic_gorter · Oct 27, 2006

Which version of Civ2 do you play Tomasz? It's important that we both got the same version.

Early landing strategy

Explorer

Chieftain

Deity

Explorer

Explorer

Attachments

Emperor

Deity

Explorer

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Emperor

Explorer

Deity

Mathematician

Explorer

Mathematician

Emperor

Chieftain

Deity

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