Economic Question

[Olfart]

I just finished a game with a Big and Small map where the Big was absolutely huge. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen so much land on a map. When I finished the game, I was ranked first in everything except Imports/Exports where I was dead last (by a considerable margin). I stayed in State Property for most of the game: was that a factor? Towards the end, I switched to Free Market and started pumping harbors/custom houses, but that didn't seem to help much. I had open borders with all of my vassals, but owned most of the landmass. I finished with a conquest victory (Noble/Epic), so it didn't seem to matter, but it did pique my curiosity. I've attached a late game same if anyone is inclined to take a look.

 

[z0wb13]

the exports/imports favor the ai because of their bonuses. and bigger empires export more. think about this:

there are 2 civs: american and babylon. A has 21 cities, B has 3, equal techs and 5 trade routes each.

the result is that civ B gets 15 foreign trade routes, while A only gets 3, so A experiences a trade deficit.

 

[Tatran]

the exports/imports favor the ai because of their bonuses.

And how are those AI bonuses related to export/import?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I don't know that bonuses have anything to do with export/import.

I believe import/export is figured as the total value of your foreign trade routes/divided by the total value of all foreign trade routes with you.

basically, being last in that is probably a good thing - it's a sign you have a big civ.

 

[z0wb13]

And how are those AI bonuses related to export/import?

indirectly. i'm talking about the general bonuses the ai receive on higher difficulties. faster builds of harbor and customs house, bigger cities, etc.

the biggest factor is the relative size of the different empires, supposing all have open borders.

edit: try this with three civs. america w/ 21 cities; babylon w/ 3; carthage w/ 4; dacian w/ 5; egyptian w/ 6, french w/ 7 cities, and 5 trade routes each.
A has a deficit of 12 trade routes with B
A has a deficit of 16 trade routes with C
A has a deficit of 16 trade routes with D
A has a deficit of 15 trade routes with E
A has a deficit of 14 trade routes with F

you might see a pattern emerging. anyway, in this situation where you have conquered 2 other big civs, you will have a trade deficit of 73 foreign trade routes. if you want to know what the demographics screen has to say about it, look here.

 

[Olfart]

@ z0wb13: Sounds reasonable to me. This is by far the largest civ (in terms of geographic area) that I've ever had. And was producing something like 1400+ BPT at about 50% research and still running at a surplus. Thanks for the answer.

 

[z0wb13]

so i'm really bored:

Spoiler :

try this with several civs. america w/ 21 cities; babylon w/ 3; carthage w/ 4; dacian w/ 5; egyptian w/ 6, french w/ 7 cities, and 5 trade routes each.

negatives are, counter-intuitively, trade surpluses. "merc" is like if american started running mercantilism, how that would effect the numbers.

a-b 15-3= 12
a-c 20-4= 16
a-d 21-5= 16
a-e 21-6= 15
a-f 21-7= 14
deficit= 73
merc= ?

b-a 15-3=-12
b-c= -1
b-d= -2
b-e= -3
b-f= -4
deficit= -22
merc= -10

c-a 20-4=-16
c-b= 1
c-d= -1
c-e= -2
c-f= -3
deficit= -21
merc= -5

d-a 5-21= -16
d-b 5-3= 2
d-c 5-4= 1
d-e 5-6= -1
d-f 5-7= -2
deficit=-16
merc= 0

e-a 6-21= -15
e-b 6-3= 3
e-c 6-4= 2
e-d 6-5= 1
e-f 6-7= -1
deficit= -10
merc= 5

f-a 7-21= -14
f-b 7-3= 4
f-c 7-4= 3
f-d 7-5= 2
f-e 7-6= 1
deficit= -4
merc= 9

smaller empires have higher trade surpluses.

 

[Olfart]

So should I conclude that it's best to switch to merc if your civ gets very large?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Not necessarily.

you might do better, because you don't lose much in the way of foreign trade routes, but then, SP cuts costs and has good food bonuses.

Actually, i think that most people think that SP is better if the empire is very large.

 

[z0wb13]

So should I conclude that it's best to switch to merc if your civ gets very large?

that's a whole 'nother discussion. see here here here here here here

 

[Olfart]

Thanks. I've been following the FM vs SP discussion with some interest (and amusement as well).

 

[Tristan_C]

As mentioned, Import/export is not a big deal. A deficit generally just means you have the most attractive cities for foreign routes. That's good. On some RARE occasions, a big deficit means you can make a bid to kill off large chunks of your AIs' commerce by going mercantile. Usually, however, the AIs' routes just automatically switch over to run between themselves and they lose very little commerce compared to you.

 

[Tatran]

Usually, however, the AIs' routes just automatically switch over to run between themselves and they lose very little commerce compared to you.

Then this must be an unusually situation.

 

[coanda]

Looking at the minimap, I'd say that yes, that is a fairly unusual situation: when the entire map is your cultural color except for a half-dozen small cities tucked away in a corner. You've got to have well over 50 cities there.

 

[Tristan_C]

Indeed; when you control the entire map your econ civic can produce some highly unusual (and highly pointless) effects ;-)