Economy Mod

[Feyd Rautha]

I tried to pick this up in the in-game browser, but I wound up with a blank screen after the "loading ring". Steam and Civ have all the permissions I can give them, but the mod browser just doesn't work... Anyone else encountered this?

 

[Valkrionn]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one completely put off by his behavior. I want to put a stop to this abhorrent mentality before other people start getting the same idea. Mods are for sharing. If you don't want me ripping you off, don't upload it to the internet.

Eh... Honestly, I see both sides of this argument, and that's why I always try to give credit where it's due. I'd usually rather just write my own code, honestly, so that I both fully understand it and will be able to fix any bugs.

I generally don't care when others take my work (and I made each change it's own file for just that reason; It's easy to steal), so long as I'm given credit.

It's irrelevant. He has no copyright notice, so his mod is public domain. Public domain works can be used by anyone, for anything, without credit. (Heck, you could have used his mod and sold it for $, and it would still be legal!)

Legal, but not moral. Credit should be given where it is due. I'm fairly inflexible on that.

I'd love to help you out if you need it, even if it be simply alpha testing changes. Without the Source Code, I'm kinda like a boat out of water, not exactly sure what to do. It's such a huge change from being able to mod whatever I wanted with Civ4... so I haven't done anything with Civ5 yet.

Sure, I'll let you know. Right now I'm playing with bonus resources (I've made them operate like strategic resources, and they'll have some new buildings which require them; Have to display that. Right now I have a clone of Magus's luxury display working fine for them, but I'm in the process of combining the two and making it an actual screen, not a simple display; Better, in the long run), but I have a rather large feature planned for the future, involving bringing back a certain mechanic from Civ4, in an entirely new way.

I looked at it. It's awesome that the XML data can be manipulated so easily. I hated having to modify 100 entries back for Civ4.

This might be out of the realm of your mod, but City Defenses really need to be addressed. If the actual values can't be made to deal more damage, then the initial city defenses needs to be much higher, and the defensive buildings need to be much more powerful.

Yeah. I almost listed every building and unit and then modified the costs. And that would have sucked. Doing it this way makes it work with other mods, as well.

I'm planning to reduce the maintenance of city defense buildings, so any changes I make to actual city stats will have to be after that modification. Don't want to go too far.

 

[Afforess]

Eh... Honestly, I see both sides of this argument, and that's why I always try to give credit where it's due. I'd usually rather just write my own code, honestly, so that I both fully understand it and will be able to fix any bugs.

I generally don't care when others take my work (and I made each change it's own file for just that reason; It's easy to steal), so long as I'm given credit.

I wasn't advising you not to give credit, just to be aware that Magus246 had no means of recourse should you ignore him.

Sure, I'll let you know. Right now I'm playing with bonus resources (I've made them operate like strategic resources, and they'll have some new buildings which require them; Have to display that. Right now I have a clone of Magus's luxury display working fine for them, but I'm in the process of combining the two and making it an actual screen, not a simple display; Better, in the long run), but I have a rather large feature planned for the future, involving bringing back a certain mechanic from Civ4, in an entirely new way.

Operating like Strategic Resources? Okay - but that makes happiness even harder to satisfy, right?

Yeah. I almost listed every building and unit and then modified the costs. And that would have sucked. Doing it this way makes it work with other mods, as well.

I'm planning to reduce the maintenance of city defense buildings, so any changes I make to actual city stats will have to be after that modification. Don't want to go too far.

I understand why they cost maintenance for gameplay reasons, but in reality, the walls are just a pile of rocks, so it doesn't cost anything to keep around...

I guess I'd be a lot happier if cities could actually deal a non-trivial amount of damage. Sieges would be a lot more interesting then.

 

[Valkrionn]

@Feyd Rautha - Do you have steam installed to a non-default path, or have non-standard characters in that path? If either are true, you'll have to install manually until that is fixed.

I wasn't advising you not to give credit, just to be aware that Magus246 had no means of recourse should you ignore him.

Operating like Strategic Resources? Okay - but that makes happiness even harder to satisfy, right?

I understand why they cost maintenance for gameplay reasons, but in reality, the walls are just a pile of rocks, so it doesn't cost anything to keep around...

I guess I'd be a lot happier if cities could actually deal a non-trivial amount of damage. Sieges would be a lot more interesting then.

Ah, you misinterpret me on the bonuses. Bonus resources, not Strategic or Luxury. Meaning Wheat, Cows, Sheep, Deer, Fish, and Banana specifically. Currently they do nothing other than affect the tile they're on, so they are A)Boring, and B)Not worth fighting over, unlike other resources.

Yeah... I'm still not sure how I feel about building maintenance in general. The defensive buildings will all go down a point, though. As it stands they aren't worth building.

And I'll see about the cities. My issue there is what happens when you have a city with an archer or catapult in it... Focus fire could take out a unit a turn. Had the AI pull that on me today, actually, WITHOUT buffing it.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Could someone please list the default path? Danke.

 

[Afforess]

Ah, you misinterpret me on the bonuses. Bonus resources, not Strategic or Luxury. Meaning Wheat, Cows, Sheep, Deer, Fish, and Banana specifically. Currently they do nothing other than affect the tile they're on, so they are A)Boring, and B)Not worth fighting over, unlike other resources.

Ohhhh...

I see. Yes, ATM, I don't even consider Fish, or Wheat, or any of those in settling cities. I did feel that they were too weak.

And I'll see about the cities. My issue there is what happens when you have a city with an archer or catapult in it... Focus fire could take out a unit a turn. Had the AI pull that on me today, actually, WITHOUT buffing it.

I had a siege where I lost a unit a turn, but that's because the city had an archer, and another archer in the field, all firing on the same unit... Usually, the city alone only deals like 2 hp (at most)

 

[Valkrionn]

Default path for steam is: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam

Default path for civ5 is: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\sid meier's civilization v

 

[Valkrionn]

Ohhhh...

I see. Yes, ATM, I don't even consider Fish, or Wheat, or any of those in settling cities. I did feel that they were too weak.

Very weak. I already buffed them yield-wise, but that bores me. So I'm trying something more interesting.

Would prefer if I could have them only ever link to the controlling (working) city, and then have buildings which grant +X or +Y% yield per instance of the resource, but that's not possible. Has to be empire-wide, until we get DLL access. Which means a modifier per resource is FAR too strong, so instead I'll have something else done.

Likely a decent effect, coupled with a boost to the resource. Example:

• Granary2 (no name for a quick idea )
  • Granary must exist in city.
  • Requires 1 Wheat
  • Stores X% (20?) food on population growth
    • Very early access to that capability is a good thing.
  • Grants +1 commerce to nearby Wheat resources

I had a siege where I lost a unit a turn, but that's because the city had an archer, and another archer in the field, all firing on the same unit... Usually, the city alone only deals like 2 hp (at most)

That was precisely what was going on. The problem is just that it's easy to do that. Buffing the city makes it even easier, and harder to conquer.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Default path for steam is: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam

Default path for civ5 is: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\sid meier's civilization v

Those are my paths. It's not an install problem, it's a "browser" problem. I click the "Online" tab and it loads mods, but after a few seconds I get the "loading ring" and then the left index and center frame go blank.

 

[Valkrionn]

Ah. Hmm. IIRC, Opera had a problem where she couldn't view online mods correctly; I'll see if she had figured anything out and get back to you.

 

[sresk]

Hey guys I'm new to modding but been trolling for quite a while. Victoria2 and paradox games in general finally got me over the hump and starting to mod game files. Anywho been reading the forums and like the direction your taking with this mod. I think alot of the other resource re balance projects take things a little too far. So I was wondering if I can offer any sort of assistance and wanted to ask...How massive are you planning on making this thing?

On the city defense thing. I agree that as it stands cities are not quite strong enough. So for my own games I upped the range to 3 and increased the healing per turn to 2. I really think both of those things should have been done through tech some where deeper in the tree but I haven't quite gotten around to attaching bonuses to tech. I'm hoping the new mod tools (which I'm installing right now) make that alot easier.

On some of the less useful resources have you though of adding in an empire wide health pool similar to happiness? When its high decrease the cost to city growth, or give every city a granary like effect and carry over some portion of the food to the next growth level. When its low decrease growth or happiness (which in turn could decrease food production)

 

[Thrax73]

Fantastic mod!

I was wondering something? I notice all too often Civs can easy steamroll other Civs and it seems to me that city defense is not quite up to snuff. Now i have no idea how it works but I was thinking that it would not seem unreasonable for city defense structures to add damage to the city bombardment attack. Is this possible?

I ask because although it looks really cool, it typically takes an ancient level bombardment a few turns just to sink a barbarian galley. If defense structures like walls gave teeth to this weapon it might reduce the early game gobbling that leads to a snowball effect and very few surviving late game Civs.

Thanks again for the mod, really great addiction to the gameplay.

 

[darkedone02]

So from what I've seen in the arguements between credit and mod sharing, I think that means that competition is not allowed in this part of the forums, it;s sharing and improving each other like some non-criminal freelancing.

 

[Valkrionn]

Hey guys I'm new to modding but been trolling for quite a while. Victoria2 and paradox games in general finally got me over the hump and starting to mod game files. Anywho been reading the forums and like the direction your taking with this mod. I think alot of the other resource re balance projects take things a little too far. So I was wondering if I can offer any sort of assistance and wanted to ask...How massive are you planning on making this thing?

On the city defense thing. I agree that as it stands cities are not quite strong enough. So for my own games I upped the range to 3 and increased the healing per turn to 2. I really think both of those things should have been done through tech some where deeper in the tree but I haven't quite gotten around to attaching bonuses to tech. I'm hoping the new mod tools (which I'm installing right now) make that alot easier.

On some of the less useful resources have you though of adding in an empire wide health pool similar to happiness? When its high decrease the cost to city growth, or give every city a granary like effect and carry over some portion of the food to the next growth level. When its low decrease growth or happiness (which in turn could decrease food production)

New modders are always welcome.

I have no plans to make this a large mod, honestly. As I've said, it's just something concrete I can point to when I make balance suggestions. I already run an extensive Civ4 mod, have one largescale modcomp planned for civ5, have a scenario planned, and have an eventual total conversion planned with the RifE team.

Oh, plus school.


Your city changes are interesting. I'll have to play around with things later on, but I may end up doing something similar.

On health: Yes, but we can't yet. To do that well requires DLL work. I'd also probably keep it on a per-city level, just to differentiate it from happiness.

Fantastic mod!

I was wondering something? I notice all too often Civs can easy steamroll other Civs and it seems to me that city defense is not quite up to snuff. Now i have no idea how it works but I was thinking that it would not seem unreasonable for city defense structures to add damage to the city bombardment attack. Is this possible?

I ask because although it looks really cool, it typically takes an ancient level bombardment a few turns just to sink a barbarian galley. If defense structures like walls gave teeth to this weapon it might reduce the early game gobbling that leads to a snowball effect and very few surviving late game Civs.

Thanks again for the mod, really great addiction to the gameplay.

That should be possible, and is another thing I may do.

 

[Valkrionn]

So from what I've seen in the arguements between credit and mod sharing, I think that means that competition is not allowed in this part of the forums, it;s sharing and improving each other like some non-criminal freelancing.

What? Competition is always allowed.

All he was really saying is that mods are public domain. If you release it, others can do whatever they want to it.

The Civilization modding community is as excellent as it is because (generally speaking) people give credit when they borrow things; This would be the first time I've been asked to remove something, actually. And I have never asked that of others (though I HAVE asked to be listed in the credits!). The community here is pretty easy-going, in general.

 

[Necro-]

id really like to see defensive buildings maintentence cut completely, as someone said a wall doesnt have upkeep, and it'll make them useful! currently i don't think anyone builds them due to upkeep - maybe have the higher tech ones have some tech keep like castle - as castles have guards and the like!

also i'd like to see genreally useless buildings (granary? etc.) somehow made more useful, maybe something like them getting better the bigger your city or the like?

 

[darkedone02]

What? Competition is always allowed.

All he was really saying is that mods are public domain. If you release it, others can do whatever they want to it.

The Civilization modding community is as excellent as it is because (generally speaking) people give credit when they borrow things; This would be the first time I've been asked to remove something, actually. And I have never asked that of others (though I HAVE asked to be listed in the credits!). The community here is pretty easy-going, in general.

ah, then I must be blind and not see much competition here. As I never see any fanboy's saying "Fall from Heaven 2 is way better then that piece of **** called Rise of Mankind" or something like that (just an example, not directly flaming anybody). As all the mod's that I've seen and play, I only see each and every mod is different. From Total Realism trying to add in realistic stuff, from Rise of Mankind extending the vinalla Civ 4 to a bigger, better game filled with so much content to make it look very good. To Keal making his Fall from Heaven 2, I've never seen any competition towards Fall from Heaven 2.

So I never seen anything that make the forum go round visibly besides friendly people trying to rise their mod to the height before the expansion comes or when a new civ games come's. That is how I see it and still see it now.

Anyway's, i'm busy trying to see if I can make this idle process for ya, then submit it to the forum and anyone can borrow it to make what use of it on their own mod's. thanks for showing me the link, now I just try to see what I could do with this. Any help will be appreciated as this be my first time modding something for any Civ game (not general tweaks, actually adding something to the game).

 

[grzybek]

From my point of view the game is too slow at the beginning. I thought about adjusting costs of military units so the civilization would be able to build each of them in 5 turns tops.

For Ancient Era it would all have to be cut -80%. For other eras the cut would need to be smaller as the city production is increasing. For Modern Era cutting would not be needed at all.


What would be the result of that - more wars, small wars, especially in the beginning. Now the units are to expensive to risk a war with 1 unit, and to get a reasonable amount of them I would need to wait 1000-2000 years (because I cannot focus on building units all the time).

Second problem that it solves is that usually I get Archery and Bronze Working even before I thing about building second unit so a "little moster" called Warrior is usually a single freak in my army (unless I find a ruin and it's gets free upgrade to Spearmen )

 

[Styg]

From my point of view the game is too slow at the beginning. I thought about adjusting costs of military units so the civilization would be able to build each of them in 5 turns tops.

For Ancient Era it would all have to be cut -80%. For other eras the cut would need to be smaller as the city production is increasing. For Modern Era cutting would not be needed at all.


What would be the result of that - more wars, small wars, especially in the beginning. Now the units are to expensive to risk a war with 1 unit, and to get a reasonable amount of them I would need to wait 1000-2000 years (because I cannot focus on building units all the time).

Second problem that it solves is that usually I get Archery and Bronze Working even before I thing about building second unit so a "little moster" called Warrior is usually a single freak in my army (unless I find a ruin and it's gets free upgrade to Spearmen )

I am sorry but i have to disagree with that. I played a whole day on huge map, with max number of civs and states on marathon.

I love the changes done here and you can actually have small wars all over without any problems. And gold is very easy to get - just buy few units.
----------

Here are some observation from last night testing: (i am still in early game !)
(i may be wrong ofc game is still new )

huge map
max number of civs
marathon
race: egypt

- It's not possible to rush all wonders with Egypt like in vanilla simply because teching is taking too long
- Great Pyramid is losing a bit on value because it's either not worth rushing to it because you must carefully plan what to tech or you simply don't feel the need for it since game is long.
- Cities can grow very fast and you usually must know when to stop growing them so they can catch up with tech. (in my case well and granary were wasted build time)
- More time spent in certain age gives you more time to micro units, and wage a lot of wars without any fear they will be obsolete that fast
- By the time you finish your first or second tech u will find yourself explored almost whole map (huge)
- Rune that gives free tech is very imbalanced here
- Larger empires will have much more advantage than smaller ones in terms of culture and science in later game.
- regular resources feel more important than in vanilla

I hope this helps

 

[Tomice]

Your mod looks very promising so far, I just wanted to suggest that you maybe shouldn't mix all these features.

Balance changes are one thing, new tile improvements another, and UI changes a third thing. I'd like try the balance changes soon, but I'm not sure if I want an iconless new improvement (does the AI use it right?) or the build queue change.

Or is it easy to split your mod for the user?