Education confusing

[vorius]

Hey, can someone explain how the education system in Colonization works? The Civilopedia and the manual are not helping me, and I can't understand what's going on in my games.

Is each student learning independent of the others? Why does it seem like when I put a guy on or remove a guy the turns to graduation changes on students left in the school? Are all the students working together to get to a certain education point total and then one of them graduates, and the others have to start from scratch again?

It just seems like it's going way too slow educating my colonists... 80 or so turns in a university in Epic game

 

[TFVanguard]

It just seems like it's going way too slow educating my colonists... 80 or so turns in a university in Epic game

This has been summed up before, but I'll let you know. Each student requires a certain amount of 'education points' in order to learn anything. This amount increases every time you educate a student by 30 percent. So it ramps up to insane numbers very very quickly, requiring many, many turns to train someone.

 

[GenocideBringer]

Education does not totally replace other methods of gaining specialists. Don't totally discount purchasing from europe and living among natives just because you have a schoolhouse.

This has been summed up before, but I'll let you know. Each student requires a certain amount of 'education points' in order to learn anything. This amount increases every time you educate a student by 30 percent.

is this per colony or for your whole empire?

 

[TFVanguard]

Education does not totally replace other methods of gaining specialists. Don't totally discount purchasing from europe and living among natives just because you have a schoolhouse.

is this per colony or for your whole empire?

It's a global, so it's the whole empire. This can cause a huge problem when you want to train up something basic, and you have the natives or criminals to spare, but don't want another Torie to fill the role.

 

[Zhahz]

In my game, that I'm about to win very easily, I had a university in my capital by around turn 125 - and I've cranked out 12 or more elder statesmen and other specialists from it.

Yes - the "cost" to educate rises but almost everything in this game scales (econ tanks, cost of cannon/vets increases w/ each purchase, natives run out of cash) - you are on a timeline with a definite goal - all of these things help nudge you towards it.

How it works: drop natives, criminals, indentured, free cols, whatever in a school slot. It takes several turns for them to "graduate". They can only "graduate" to become a specialst that is working inside the settlement. I haven't looked THAT closely but it seems like the lower quality students (natives/indentured/criminals) take a bit longer than a free col to educate (might be wrong - haven't paid THAT much attention).

Each student you run thru schooling takes progressively longer to educate. Some don't like it, but I think it's a good GAME MECHANIC (since this is a game, not reality). It's yet another factor that nudges you towards the goal of the game (which is to gain independence, not turtle for centuries).

IMO, if you're serious about using education in the game, don't bother with the school house - it's very slow - upgrade/build up a university in one food rich settlement (and/or import food) (minimize travel of your students) and ONLY graduate people with expensive specialties, like preachers and statesmen. If you have an economy that will support winning the game then purchasing the less expensive specialists and using education for the costly ones is most efficient, IMO.

 

[Wombleburger]

I realize that there is a gaming reason for the increased cost of educating each subsequent colonist. But, even so, isn't part of the point of playing a game to lose yourself in an alternate reality and forget that you're just playing a game?.. and for that, the alternate reality has to be believable.
Personally, I can't think of a realistic (i.e. non-game-based) reason for this increased cost. In fact, it feels counter-intuitive (shouldn't the educators get better at educating over time, not worse?) I'm not saying that this is a terrible, gaming-breaking feature - just one that pulls me out of the fantasy that I'm really running a colony and makes me realise that I'm just playing a game. And that saddens me. I'd like to see this changed in a (potential) patch.

 

[Lord Chambers]

It isn't noted anywhere in the Civilopedia, but Schoolhouses can only train experts, colleges can train masters and experts, and Universities can also train Elder Statesmen and Firebrand Preachers.

 

[Bad Brett]

It isn't noted anywhere in the Civilopedia, but Schoolhouses can only train experts, colleges can train masters and experts, and Universities can also train Elder Statesmen and Firebrand Preachers.

You're completely wrong. That were the rules in Col 1 though.

 

[TFVanguard]

It isn't noted anywhere in the Civilopedia, but Schoolhouses can only train experts, colleges can train masters and experts, and Universities can also train Elder Statesmen and Firebrand Preachers.

Those were the Col1/ColWin rules (and I agree that such a limitation would make sense), right now any education building can build anyone - but the advanced specialties cost money as well as time.

Sadly, I don't see where I can put this limitation. I haven't found the code for 'what can be educated here' yet.

 

[Lord Chambers]

How much do masters cost to train? The CIVilopedia says cost is proportional to the length of time the profession wasn't present in the colony during the colonist's educaiton. Yet, I've had none of my masters ever available to train with a schoolhouse, even when they've been present for it's construction and entire education of the first graduate. In the latest instance of this, I have less than 500 gold, which evidentally isn't enough. So how much does it cost? And does the length of the profession's stay in the colony affect that price?

I'd ask why the designers desided to have graduates automatically default to the expert in the colony (if there is only one) without communicating to you that you lack the coin neccesary to choose anyone else, but I know the answer is "because we like confusing and broken . .. .. .. . in our game."

 

[Krupo]

In my game, that I'm about to win very easily, I had a university in my capital by around turn 125 - and I've cranked out 12 or more elder statesmen and other specialists from it.

Yes - the "cost" to educate rises but almost everything in this game scales (econ tanks, cost of cannon/vets increases w/ each purchase, natives run out of cash) - you are on a timeline with a definite goal - all of these things help nudge you towards it.

How it works: drop natives, criminals, indentured, free cols, whatever in a school slot. It takes several turns for them to "graduate". They can only "graduate" to become a specialst that is working inside the settlement. I haven't looked THAT closely but it seems like the lower quality students (natives/indentured/criminals) take a bit longer than a free col to educate (might be wrong - haven't paid THAT much attention).

Each student you run thru schooling takes progressively longer to educate. Some don't like it, but I think it's a good GAME MECHANIC (since this is a game, not reality). It's yet another factor that nudges you towards the goal of the game (which is to gain independence, not turtle for centuries).

IMO, if you're serious about using education in the game, don't bother with the school house - it's very slow - upgrade/build up a university in one food rich settlement (and/or import food) (minimize travel of your students) and ONLY graduate people with expensive specialties, like preachers and statesmen. If you have an economy that will support winning the game then purchasing the less expensive specialists and using education for the costly ones is most efficient, IMO.

Purchasing less expensive specialists? I'm intrigued, if what you say has any basis in reality, though I'm pessimistic, because I'm pretty sure you're completely wrong.

Who can you purchase in this game? Everyone on the docks costs the same amount of money (though I vaguely remember/think you could buy cheaper immigrants in Col1).

And this, of course, is insane.

If you COULD pay less for cheap colonists/experts on the docks that would make the whole crazy system more logical.

As it stands the expert/education system is a failure.

The increasing length of time to train people makes it MORE necessary to turtle, rather than rushing you along - because you're waiting forever to people to become available.

Don't get me started on the elimination of military college (i.e., soldiers being trained in school). I mean, doesn't "West Point" and Benedict Arnold ring a bell?

The moment I see a Col2 mod which includes "soldiers can be trained", I'll be promptly downloading and installing that!

 

[sbtop]

Who can you purchase in this game? Everyone on the docks costs the same amount of money (though I vaguely remember/think you could buy cheaper immigrants in Col1).

I think that you may have missed a button on the Docks. You can buy Colonists with all Old World skills from a drop down list. Some, such as Ore Miners are relatively cheap at $600 whilst Elder Statesmen are $1500. YOu can also buy Cannons and Ships there.

 

[ColPaladin]

I really don't like the current Education system in this game at all. If your suppose to move towards "Indendency" in this game, Education SHOULD let you start training people easier, not harder, or at least not penalize you for schooling your people.

There is NO reason to put schools in most your settlements; Instead of feeling more indepentdent, I feel it more and more difficult to "get" trained colonists. You'd think the more education points you have, or aquire, the better everyone, and everything, would start woking, but nope. And near the end game, where you really want/need to be/feel independent, it's totally useless to put anyone in school because it take so long for them to get educationed, the game will be over LONG before they "graduate".

And there is really no reason to put any people (expert teachers?) into schools either. I wish education points did what bells/indepence points do; make you have bouneses, not encourage your people to be tobaco smoking dropouts. . .

 

[niidel]

I really don't like the current Education system in this game at all. If your suppose to move towards "Indendency" in this game, Education SHOULD let you start training people easier, not harder, or at least not penalize you for schooling your people.

True. Even if this game isn't the original Colonization (and in my opinion, it should not try to be 100% the original), the original system made much more sense - you don't need a university to train a lumberjack, but you do need a university to train lawyers and politicians (that's what the statesmen are, right?).

While the school system might have to be balanced if the training rate was constant (e.g. you'd need more turns to graduate), the current system is way too penalizing

The amount of crosses to get immigrants rises way too fast - after the first few turns it's actually easier to just recruit the experts you need. Why would I shell out 14000 for an indentured servant if I can get an elder statesman for 1500? It should be almost constantly cheaper and easier to get the "random" immigrants than recruiting the needed experts to attend to your particular need.

Don't get me started on the elimination of military college (i.e., soldiers being trained in school). I mean, doesn't "West Point" and Benedict Arnold ring a bell?

I understand your pain and I was shocked at first as well, but do note that in Civ4Col, normal colonists picking up arms are just as effective as Veteran Soldiers. The only difference is that Veterans start with Veteran 1 (+10% combat strength) and Leadership (Double XP).

But yeah, even so, it would be nice to build an army of trained soldiers, I agree...

I'd ask why the designers desided to have graduates automatically default to the expert in the colony (if there is only one) without communicating to you that you lack the coin neccesary to choose anyone else, but I know the answer is "because we like confusing and broken . .. .. .. . in our game."

So that's what prevented me from getting an Elder Statesman from my first city. I assumed that there might be a some kind of limit to the amount of specialists you can graduate in one profession (e.g. "you can specialize a graduate to be an elder statesman, but only twice"). Blah. Again, the game mechanics seem broken because it really doesn't tell you the reason why you can't have your statesman.

 

[centrelink4]

Yes - the "cost" to educate rises but almost everything in this game scales (econ tanks, cost of cannon/vets increases w/ each purchase, natives run out of cash) - you are on a timeline with a definite goal - all of these things help nudge you towards it.

I understand the idea but I dont like it. That my choice of course and others probably like it.

However even if you do like i think its broken given there seems to be easy alternatives.

ie Invest in crosses which become useless quite quickly or just buy someone

or

invest in schooling which become useless quite quickly or just use natives or just buy someone

plus adds gamey things like not training things you should like carpenters or farmers but saving it to train top level people like statemen.

 

[Berba]

How do you Educate a e.g Fisherman to a Expert Fisherman, or do you Educate a Student in e.g Fishing??

 

[Andvare]

How do you Educate a e.g Fisherman to a Expert Fisherman, or do you Educate a Student in e.g Fishing??

You put an uneducated colonists in a school (or college or university) and have a master fisherman working inside the city.

Edit: It doesn't matter were the expert works, just that he is working isdie the city. A stateman could be fishing, and you could still educate statesmen.

 

[niidel]

Yes - the "cost" to educate rises but almost everything in this game scales (econ tanks, cost of cannon/vets increases w/ each purchase, natives run out of cash) - you are on a timeline with a definite goal - all of these things help nudge you towards it.

Except it doesn't. The game just punishes you for doing the right things (i.e. pushing towards your declaration of independence). The game should be rewarding, not punitive. And even though this is a game and not a simulator, what is the rising education cost supposed to mean? That my colonists are getting dumber the more you teach them?

I understand the idea but I dont like it. That my choice of course and others probably like it.
*snip*
plus adds gamey things like not training things you should like carpenters or farmers but saving it to train top level people like statemen.

Yeah. There should be other ways to implement the teaching system than the punitive one.

For example:

-The way it was in original Colonization: Schools are only able to teach the most basic professions (Experts; Fishermen and so forth); Colleges able to teach the Master professions (Weavers, Tobacconists and so forth); Universities able to teach all professions.

-All school buildings are able to teach all professions (given that the correct specialist is in the settlement), but a school only gives 1 education point, a college gives 5 and a University gives 10 - and you need 10 education points for a Lumberjack but 100 for a Statesman (of course this would need balancing). Anyway the idea is that training the "highest" professions in a school is going to take ages but it will work; however, you should build the better versions when you can to really pump out those Statesmen.

The current system is counter-intuitive (many aspects of the game are, so in that way it is constant ), depressing and punitive.

 

[Krupo]

I think that you may have missed a button on the Docks. You can buy Colonists with all Old World skills from a drop down list. Some, such as Ore Miners are relatively cheap at $600 whilst Elder Statesmen are $1500. YOu can also buy Cannons and Ships there.

Oh ZING, brilliant, thank you!

I thought that dollar sign was just a redundant design choice.

Woops.

And there is really no reason to put any people (expert teachers?) into schools either. I wish education points did what bells/indepence points do; make you have bouneses, not encourage your people to be tobaco smoking dropouts. . .

Yeah, teachers are gone - they were in Col1, right? The system is backwards now - you put the people learning in the school rather than the instructors, IIRC.

 

[Bad Brett]

Yeah, teachers are gone - they were in Col1, right? The system is backwards now - you put the people learning in the school rather than the instructors, IIRC.

Which I think is better, but like I've said in other topics, it's really bizarre that it should take 30 turns to educate someone to become a lumberjacker.